How do we know the SEC is any good?

[Timonen]

I'm thanking the football gods that FSU is undefeated because all we'd hear from the pundits is that we should have a Bama/Auburn rematch in the NCG.

Why no Baylor or OSU? Amazing how the Big 12 seems to get the boot when their top team loses to a bad team each year. Maybe, deservedly so but it's odd that it's a 4-8 team within its own conference that is it's own undoing. Much like when Pitt beat WV back in the day.

did TCU finish 4-8 this year?

they were ranked when they played (and when they were scheduled). Same with V Tech. The argument that the SEC doesn't schedule anybody is nonsense. They probably schedule more top teams OOC than any other conference. I know LSU opens with Wisconsin next year and played Oregon two years ago (plus a very god wvu team that year). Florida plays FSU every year (plus miami this year). Bama played Michigan last year. auburn played clemson last year. tenny plays oregon. ole miss plays texas. uga plays clemson. msu plays ok st. it feels like a&m and mizzou have scheduled weakly as they get their feet wet, but everybody else plays an ooc that on par or harder than anybody in the pac 12, big 12 or big 10.

 

[wfschrec]

valid, but to say the SEC isn't a great conference is crazy. granted a the whole conference significantly from a few great teams and the self-fulfilling prophecy of having a lot of preseason ranked teams to help maintain their status as best conference when they knock each other off.

trust me, living in the south, i want nothing more than to shut up SEC fans, but the top teams in their conference are dominant and make the SEC. funny, people never really bring it up, but for as good as they have been the past 7 years, the SEC bowl record has been only slightly above average (going off memory), and probably will be again this year, and if it wasn't for the fact they clean up agianst the big 10, the bowl record would be dismal

So let me get this straight ... SEC went to 9 bowls last year and went 6-3 ... and every opponent was from an AQ conference and that is slightly average? Are you high? Here is who they played last year:

Michigan, Notre Dame, Pitt, Oklahoma, Louisville, Nebraska, Northwestern, Clemson & NC St.

The PAC-12 went 4-4 and sported victories over Boise St, Nevada & Navy to get there

The ACC went 4-2 and had Northern Illinois as a team on their bowl slate

The B1G went 2-5 with one of them a win over TCU

The Big12 went 4-5, with a loss to Tulsa mixed in

And the BE went 3-2 against all AQ's

How do you even come up with that conclusion? Can we just stop the argument ... it isn't even close.

 

[Timonen]

So let me get this straight ... SEC went to 9 bowls last year and went 6-3 ... and every opponent was from an AQ conference and that is slightly average? Are you high? Here is who they played last year:

Michigan, Notre Dame, Pitt, Oklahoma, Louisville, Nebraska, Northwestern, Clemson & NC St.

The PAC-12 went 4-4 and sported victories over Boise St, Nevada & Navy to get there

The ACC went 4-2 and had Northern Illinois as a team on their bowl slate

The B1G went 2-5 with one of them a win over TCU

The Big12 went 4-9, with a loss to Tulsa mixed in

And the BE went 3-2 against all AQ's

How do you even come up with that conclusion? Can we just stop the argument ... it isn't even close.

plus, I'm pretty sure the sec has a bunch of matchups where their team is underseeded. so the 8th sec against the 4th big 10, etc.

 

[wfschrec]

plus, I'm pretty sure the sec has a bunch of matchups where their team is underseeded. so the 8th sec against the 4th big 10, etc.

Oh don't let facts get in the way of blind hatred towards the SEC.

 

[mscanlo]

So let me get this straight ... SEC went to 9 bowls last year and went 6-3 ... and every opponent was from an AQ conference and that is slightly average? Are you high? Here is who they played last year:

Michigan, Notre Dame, Pitt, Oklahoma, Louisville, Nebraska, Northwestern, Clemson & NC St.

The PAC-12 went 4-4 and sported victories over Boise St, Nevada & Navy to get there

The ACC went 4-2 and had Northern Illinois as a team on their bowl slate

The B1G went 2-5 with one of them a win over TCU

The Big12 went 4-9, with a loss to Tulsa mixed in

And the BE went 3-2 against all AQ's

How do you even come up with that conclusion? Can we just stop the argument ... it isn't even close.

i wasn't arguing the SEC isn't good.

Oh don't let facts get in the way of blind hatred towards the SEC.

i'm not the one arguing the SEC isn't the best or at least a top conference. i was just pointing out they do play the big 10 a lot in bowl games and i don't consider 1 year a good sample, and i am pretty sure their historical conference record is .533 (as of 2011, through ~390 games, granted is the highest of any conference, but i would consider that "slightly above average"

 

[wfschrec]

i wasn't arguing the SEC isn't good.

i'm not the one arguing the SEC isn't the best or at least a top conference. i was just pointing out they do play the big 10 a lot in bowl games and i don't consider 1 year a good sample, and i am pretty sure their historical conference record is .533 (as of 2011, through ~390 games, granted is the highest of any conference, but i would consider that "slightly above average"

So having the best winning percent of any conference is slightly above average? That is like saying ... a guy like Miguel Cabrera who leads the MLB with a .390 batting average is slightly above average ... when you say something is average you mean middle of the pack which might be a conference with a .400 winning percentage in the middle ... to say the leader in a given category like that is slightly above average is ludicrous ...

 

[wfschrec]

From the AQ conferences in bowl history:

ACC .490 (96-100-2)
BIG12 .496 (62-63-0)
B1G .459 (111-131-1)
PAC12 .526 (120-108-5)
SEC .563 (213-164-9)
BE .571 (56-42-0)

And the gap has widened over the last decade ... not even close ... not even an argument ... in the past 10 years

ACC 5 years of .500 or better
BE 7 years of .500 or better
Big12 6 years of .500 or better
B1G 2 years of .500 or better
PAC12 8 years of .500 or better
SEC 10 years of .500 or better

And take a look at the quality of opponents in each game ... I can't believe I need to explain all of this or that there is even a thread discussing this ... they would literally have to lose every bowl game this year and for a number of years to close the gap. That isn't above average ... its the gold friggin standard. People don't like the SEC ... I totally get it, doesn't change the fact that they are head and shoulders above everyone else ... the ACC needs FSU and Clemson to start closing the gap with their elites and teams like SU need to evolve which I think we are doing.

 

[TheCusian]

From the AQ conferences in bowl history: ACC .490 (96-100-2) BIG12 .496 (62-63-0) B1G .459 (111-131-1) PAC12 .526 (120-108-5) SEC .563 (213-164-9) BE .571 (56-42-0) And the gap has widened over the last decade ... not even close ... not even an argument ... in the past 10 years ACC 5 years of .500 or better BE 7 years of .500 or better Big12 6 years of .500 or better B1G 2 years of .500 or better PAC12 8 years of .500 or better SEC 10 years of .500 or better And take a look at the quality of opponents in each game ... I can't believe I need to explain all of this or that there is even a thread discussing this ... they would literally have to lose every bowl game this year and for a number of years to close the gap. That isn't above average ... its the gold friggin standard. People don't like the SEC ... I totally get it, doesn't change the fact that they are head and shoulders above everyone else ... the ACC needs FSU and Clemson to start closing the gap with their elites and teams like SU need to evolve which I think we are doing.

FSU has closed the gap or will with a NC this season. Clemson beat a good SEC team last season and the Georgia this season. I think our top 2 are competing quite well. VT and Miami need to get better - and then the rest of us.

 

[LennX6]

This whole a one loss SEC team needs to play for the title crap is crazy. I do think however that if Auburn beats Mizzou they should jump Ohio State (I think it will be a moot point because Sparty is beating the buckeyes).

I am still fuming over the 2012 Title Game. I refused to watch it , as I do not believe any bowl game, much less a Title game, should have 2 conference members, or teams that played each other previously in the year. I actually was disappointed that we went to a bowl and played a long time rival (though for the last time maybe). What tempered that was we owned Geno Smith/

 

[wfschrec]

FSU has closed the gap or will with a NC this season. Clemson beat a good SEC team last season and the Georgia this season. I think our top 2 are competing quite well. VT and Miami need to get better - and then the rest of us.

Hence my statement ... "I think we are doing ... " the ACC has made some noise on the recruiting front .. best for business as HHH would say.

 

[wfschrec]

I am still fuming over the 2012 Title Game. I refused to watch it , as I do not believe any bowl game, much less a Title game, should have 2 conference members, or teams that played each other previously in the year. I actually was disappointed that we went to a bowl and played a long time rival (though for the last time maybe). What tempered that was we owned Geno Smith/

Even if they are the two best teams? Lets face it ... those two squads would have run a train up on anyone else that season ...

 

[wfschrec]

FSU has closed the gap or will with a NC this season. Clemson beat a good SEC team last season and the Georgia this season. I think our top 2 are competing quite well. VT and Miami need to get better - and then the rest of us.

I'm thanking the football gods that FSU is undefeated because all we'd hear from the pundits is that we should have a Bama/Auburn rematch in the NCG.

Why no Baylor or OSU? Amazing how the Big 12 seems to get the boot when their top team loses to a bad team each year. Maybe, deservedly so but it's odd that it's a 4-8 team within its own conference that is it's own undoing. Much like when Pitt beat WV back in the day.

I think you answered your own question ... Bama or the top SEC team just don't lose to teams that are 4-8, they just don't.

 

[Moontan]

florida played florida st.

Florida played at Miami as well.

 

[mscanlo]

From the AQ conferences in bowl history:

ACC .490 (96-100-2)
BIG12 .496 (62-63-0)
B1G .459 (111-131-1)
PAC12 .526 (120-108-5)
SEC .563 (213-164-9)
BE .571 (56-42-0)

And the gap has widened over the last decade ... not even close ... not even an argument ... in the past 10 years

ACC 5 years of .500 or better
BE 7 years of .500 or better
Big12 6 years of .500 or better
B1G 2 years of .500 or better
PAC12 8 years of .500 or better
SEC 10 years of .500 or better

And take a look at the quality of opponents in each game ... I can't believe I need to explain all of this or that there is even a thread discussing this ... they would literally have to lose every bowl game this year and for a number of years to close the gap. That isn't above average ... its the gold friggin standard. People don't like the SEC ... I totally get it, doesn't change the fact that they are head and shoulders above everyone else ... the ACC needs FSU and Clemson to start closing the gap with their elites and teams like SU need to evolve which I think we are doing.

like i said, I AM NOT CLAIMING the SEC ISN'T THE BEST CONFERENCE. i personally can't stand the SEC, but i do think it contains the best top teams of a conference, not necessarily top down. i just think they are helped out by a self-fulfilling prophecy where they are benefiting, as a whole, from preseason hype (ie. when an unranked SEC team beats a ranked SEC team early on, the unranked SEC picks up a lot of momentum in the polls. As far as the bowl game argument, in my opinion, they aren't as dominant a conference (when it comes to bowl records) as their ego/people's perception eludes (aside from the national championship), and most of those wins have come against the B10,

 

[Timonen]

like i said, I AM NOT CLAIMING the SEC ISN'T THE BEST CONFERENCE. i personally can't stand the SEC, but i do think it contains the best top teams of a conference, not necessarily top down. i just think they are helped out by a self-fulfilling prophecy where they are benefiting, as a whole, from preseason hype (ie. when an unranked SEC team beats a ranked SEC team early on, the unranked SEC picks up a lot of momentum in the polls. As far as the bowl game argument, in my opinion, they aren't as dominant a conference (when it comes to bowl records) as their ego/people's perception eludes (aside from the national championship), and most of those wins have come against the B10,

Have most come against the big 10? Lsu beat ok. Auburn beat Oregon. Bama beat lsu and nd and texas.

What metric would make the perception reality if not wins and national titles? What about nfl picks? Are pro teams sucked into the misconception, too?

 

[mscanlo]

Have most come against the big 10? Lsu beat ok. Auburn beat Oregon. Bama beat lsu and nd and texas.

What metric would make the perception reality if not wins and national titles? What about nfl picks? Are pro teams sucked into the misconception, too?

pretty sure ,ost of the bowl games are vs b10.

are we just arguing for the sake of arguing? again, not arguing the sec isnt the best, just arguing they are given a little too much credit

 

[SmilinBob]

I think you answered your own question ... Bama or the top SEC team just don't lose to teams that are 4-8, they just don't.

That's because they're playing Patsy U. That extra week of battling makes a difference and if you can't see that then I don't know what else I have to say. There is a reason why they play 8...actually many reasons.

 

[SmilinBob]

they were ranked when they played (and when they were scheduled). Same with V Tech. The argument that the SEC doesn't schedule anybody is nonsense. They probably schedule more top teams OOC than any other conference. I know LSU opens with Wisconsin next year and played Oregon two years ago (plus a very god wvu team that year). Florida plays FSU every year (plus miami this year). Bama played Michigan last year. auburn played clemson last year. tenny plays oregon. ole miss plays texas. uga plays clemson. msu plays ok st. it feels like a&m and mizzou have scheduled weakly as they get their feet wet, but everybody else plays an ooc that on par or harder than anybody in the pac 12, big 12 or big 10.

My problem is when USCe plays a good team OOC...all of the SEC plays a good team. My second is that the SEC controls the environment by where the games are...the "neutral" games. LSU earned a huge kudos...I get that last year and were rewarded by having to play a Bama team they already beat who avoided all the good teams in the east along with a crappy OOC. Also, the bowls are in the south. Florida hasn't left the state of Florida for an OOC game since SU beat them in 91. I know I know...they play FSU but again...it's controlling their environment. Imagine if our SU basketball team did that? ESPN would have had a heart attack. Nothing and I repeat nothing has ever been said about this by the pundits.

It isn't just SEC teams that schedule like this I get that. Ohio State has done it for years and playing one decent name school and 3 home games OOC is THEE way to do this if you want to be successful.

 

[wfschrec]

That's because they're playing Patsy U. That extra week of battling makes a difference and if you can't see that then I don't know what else I have to say. There is a reason why they play 8...actually many reasons.

LOL Ok ... whatever you say ... I guarantee you if they went to a 9 game schedule they still wouldn't lose to a team that is in the bottom half of their conference ... whatever helps you sleep at night ... the fact is the other guys just can't get it done ... if they were good enough Oregon would have beaten an Arizona team that is below .500 in the PAC-12 ... so lets spare the argument ... and like I said Bama played 9 BCS AQs like a majority of the teams you are barking about so you can throw that excuse out the windows. USCe beat a Clemson team that has the same scheduling practice of 8 conference games and 4 OCCs and played the Citadel right before playing USCe but I don't see you complaining about them. Try looking at the big picture instead of letting your distaste for the SEC cloud your judgement ... the bowl results I posted above speak for themselves but you obviously don't care about facts.

 

[SmilinBob]

The SEC has teams that are very talented and I don't deny that but can you tell me another reason why they don't go to 9 games? Clemson played Georgia and USCe OOC. That is more than ample.

 

[wfschrec]

The SEC has teams that are very talented and I don't deny that but can you tell me another reason why they don't go to 9 games? Clemson played Georgia and USCe OOC. That is more than ample.

Because apparently Southerners aren't stupid ... is that a good enough reason? It amazes me that you have such an agenda ... you cite a system that works for them and that the NCAA endorses and oh by the way the SEC champ never has What losses like KSU, Oregon or WVU even before there were 9 game schedules and guess what they play all these other AQ teams in bowl games and win ... good grief get over it.

I have news for you ... even if all these other conferences go with 8 conference games and 4 cream puffs they would still get their asses handed to them by SEC teams in a bowl game. LOOK AT THE RESULTS. If these schools are doing it to themselves call up and chew them out but give up this outlandish rant that you have carried on about the SEC for months it is just old and the NCAA should shoulder this blame ... no one else ... of course if some of these other "big time" AQ schools played in that conference they wouldn't even be competing for a conference championship so at that point its moot. OSU, MSU, ND or any of the others would just get stepped on.

 

[SmilinBob]

That's not the point and you know it. Once you set yourself up so that you don't take any chances of losing a game against a quality opponent you have your base to go off of and there is...once again...a reason why they only play 8 SEC games. This is why the ACC does as well because they also know the chances of losing one game are greater and if the SEC isn't doing it, why the hell shoot yourself in the foot and go to 9 like the Big 12 or PAC.

As for the results the SEC has done well...of course and it is because they have talent, no doubt. They get how the game is played and yes...it is the NCAA's fault for letting this happen along with a crooked bowl system. The SEC gets a mulligan every year and having ESPN sing their praise because they are their largest investment also helps their cause.

As for "some" other AQ schools playing in their conference and not competing...Missouri and A&M seem to be doing pretty well for just joining. Just look at Missouri's history and see how well they did in the Big 12. This asinine argument has been said for years..."If that team was in the SEC they wouldn't win 3 games"...well guess what, those schools are in it and took off right away.