How Far We Have Come...

[Steelerswan]

After that Great win over Dabo in 2018. I ran on the field. We all lived dinos style and candor. We believed. 10-3.
Then:
1. Huge (unrealistic) expectations in 2019.
2. A bit of a blind eye at skill position recruiting (the system will take care of it)
3. A blind eye from most about just how many schedule/player injury related breaks we got in 2018. The schedule BROKE perfect.
4. Still being sold the T2 defense.

ZERO talk of the loss of arguably the best qb in program history, hey, the system will take care of it. The speed and tempo, its plug and play. FACT is, the loss of ED has exposed just what is going on here.

 

[jgeorge322]

We were all unrealistic if we thought its a three year rebuild. Maybe if we brought in saban. I think itll take 8 years total so this and 3 more, to gain consistency.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

After that Great win over Dabo in 2018. I ran on the field. We all lived dinos style and candor. We believed. 10-3.
Then:
1. Huge (unrealistic) expectations in 2019.
2. A bit of a blind eye at skill position recruiting (the system will take care of it)
3. A blind eye from most about just how many schedule/player injury related breaks we got in 2018. The schedule BROKE perfect.
4. Still being sold the T2 defense.

ZERO talk of the loss of arguably the best qb in program history, hey, the system will take care of it. The speed and tempo, its plug and play. FACT is, the loss of ED has exposed just what is going on here.

who is arguing Eric Dungey is the best Qb in Syracuse history?

 

[Steelerswan]

who is arguing Eric Dungey is the best Qb in Syracuse history?

The point is we thought we would just keep on rolling in 2019 and that is when things got exposed. A lack of appreciation for how he covered up coaching and the lack of wr development. That said Erv and ish were the most polished recievers and we haven't seen anything close.

 

[syrBossHogg]

We were all unrealistic if we thought its a three year rebuild. Maybe if we brought in saban. I think itll take 8 years total so this and 3 more, to gain consistency.

IMO I thought it would be something like

2-3 years to become a bowl caliber team
2-3 more years to build good depth and become a yearly bowl caliber team.

 

[DocFlanders]

If not Dino, who? The issues we have have been on replay for a long time. Defense got turned around pretty quick, or at least that’s the early forecast. Gilbert has had almost no hands on time with an offense that was crappy last year too. I say give the guy 3 more years before we go nuts here. I like this years recruiting class. We sucked Forever and Dino has at least given us some hope, let’s ride it out a bit more.

 

[jgeorge322]

IMO I thought it would be something like

2-3 years to become a bowl caliber team
2-3 more years to build good depth and become a yearly bowl caliber team.

marrone was probably on that trajectory so not terribly offbase. Marrone was in the obe though, not acc.

 

[RF2044]

After that Great win over Dabo in 2018. I ran on the field. We all lived dinos style and candor. We believed. 10-3.
Then:
1. Huge (unrealistic) expectations in 2019.
2. A bit of a blind eye at skill position recruiting (the system will take care of it)
3. A blind eye from most about just how many schedule/player injury related breaks we got in 2018. The schedule BROKE perfect.
4. Still being sold the T2 defense.

ZERO talk of the loss of arguably the best qb in program history, hey, the system will take care of it. The speed and tempo, its plug and play. FACT is, the loss of ED has exposed just what is going on here.

1. Those expectations weren't unrealistic -- they were REASONABLE, and based upon the expectation that Tommy would take the next step after gaining some experience and helping the team to some wins, having ups and downs, etc. his RF year. Most QBs have a learning curve, and it was viewed as a positive that he'd gotten quite a bit of PT his RF year, and that he'd be able to build upon that experience and step into the big shoes left by Dungey. Tommy wasn't up to the task, and the injuries to the OL did him no favors.

2. Not sure I agree -- the skilled talent is young, but seems to be heading in the right direction.

3. Did it? Seems like revisionist history to me. I will certainly admit that we caught our share of on-the-field breaks that year [i.e., forcing so many turnovers]. But that record was not a function of how the schedule set up. And re: the injury situation, just imagine if Dungey hadn't been able to shake off whatever injury he sustained against ND and hadn't been at the helm vs. BC the following week.

4. Personnel was better, results were better. But I'm happy with where we are now -- expected there to be a learning curve for our young defense, but clearly this system suits our personnel.


5. In terms of Dungey being "arguably the best QB in program history," I'm not sure that there is a bigger Dungey fan than me. Loved the kid, how tough he was, the intangibles he brought to the position, and what a warrior he was. I think given the high note his career ended on, you could certainly make the case that he's in the top 5. And perhaps argue about him being anywhere from 3 -5 in that pecking order. But there is NFW he is in the conversation for top QB in program history.

 

[syrBossHogg]

marrone was probably on that trajectory so not terribly offbase. Marrone was in the obe though, not acc.

Yeah if the OBE was still around I think 2013 SU would've still been a bowl team, but it prolly would've taken another season or two to rebuild the offense after losing Nassib, Pugh, Lemon, Sales, etc.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah if the OBE was still around I think 2013 SU would've still been a bowl team, but it prolly would've taken another season or two to rebuild the offense after losing Nassib, Pugh, Lemon, Sales, etc.

And in fact, I'd contend that the departure of those guys without viable replacements being in the pipeline were one of many factors that went into Marrone's decision to make the jump.

I don't think that was the reason atop the list, but I'm sure it factored into his decision.

 

[SoBristol]

1. Those expectations weren't unrealistic -- they were REASONABLE, and based upon the expectation that Tommy would take the next step after gaining some experience and helping the team to some wins, having ups and downs, etc. his RF year. Most QBs have a learning curve, and it was viewed as a positive that he'd gotten quite a bit of PT his RF year, and that he'd be able to build upon that experience and step into the big shoes left by Dungey. Tommy wasn't up to the task, and the injuries to the OL did him no favors.

2. Not sure I agree -- the skilled talent is young, but seems to be heading in the right direction.

3. . . . .

I agree with much of your post, but 2019 expectations were wildly unrealistic. We had no idea how Tommy would handle pressure (other than the ND game) and we lost two multi-year starters at OT. The OL was a mess in the Spring and in August with try-outs at center and the tackle spot. We were guessing Tommy would step in for Dungey and do OK.

Skill positions? I wonder about your yardstick. We haven’t recruited at an ACC level (mid-pack). We have some young guys - our opponents have that and better, as we saw with Pitt’s true frosh.

 

[syrBossHogg]

And in fact, I'd contend that the departure of those guys without viable replacements being in the pipeline were one of many factors that went into Marrone's decision to make the jump.

I don't think that was the reason atop the list, but I'm sure it factored into his decision.

Yeah from what I remember Marrone obviously got fed up with recruiting and couldn't bring in high end talent on the offensive side of the ball, so he left at the perfect time for myself. I do give him credit cause he made us much better on the OL and DL.

 

[TheCusian]

I've been thinking about this a lot:

If I watch a kids tape and the Elite 11 stuff and Dino is all in on a kid like Tommy, would I get just as amped up? Yes. The answer is yes. If you had a guy come in and toss 3 TD passes in a conference game again, would you be excited about your future at the position? Yes.

He throws as pretty a ball as you'll see. Good arm strength. Great feet. Checks all those boxes, do you take him? Yes.

The story is not written fully yet, but I won't feel bad about getting amped up for TD or last year or even having hopes this year. You take a chance on QBs and sometimes it doesn't happen.

 

[Steelerswan]

1. Those expectations weren't unrealistic -- they were REASONABLE, and based upon the expectation that Tommy would take the next step after gaining some experience and helping the team to some wins, having ups and downs, etc. his RF year. Most QBs have a learning curve, and it was viewed as a positive that he'd gotten quite a bit of PT his RF year, and that he'd be able to build upon that experience and step into the big shoes left by Dungey. Tommy wasn't up to the task, and the injuries to the OL did him no favors.

2. Not sure I agree -- the skilled talent is young, but seems to be heading in the right direction.

3. Did it? Seems like revisionist history to me. I will certainly admit that we caught our share of on-the-field breaks that year [i.e., forcing so many turnovers]. But that record was not a function of how the schedule set up. And re: the injury situation, just imagine if Dungey hadn't been able to shake off whatever injury he sustained against ND and hadn't been at the helm vs. BC the following week.

4. Personnel was better, results were better. But I'm happy with where we are now -- expected there to be a learning curve for our young defense, but clearly this system suits our personnel.


5. In terms of Dungey being "arguably the best QB in program history," I'm not sure that there is a bigger Dungey fan than me. Loved the kid, how tough he was, the intangibles he brought to the position, and what a warrior he was. I think given the high note his career ended on, you could certainly make the case that he's in the top 5. And perhaps argue about him being anywhere from 3 -5 in that pecking order. But there is NFW he is in the conversation for top QB in program history.

Given the schedule breaks in 2018 and losing ED and the recievers, the expectations were based on TD and DINO and the SYSTEM. plug and play, play fast. What was overlooked was TD playing out of the bullpen, an easier ask and thinking we had wrs waiting to break out. 0-2 and in the end this is on coaching after 3 years of hearing fast, tempo, we all thought the system would win out. Well, it's now exposed and yes, the wrs are barely p5 quality. If both Johnson's are still in the mix 3-4 years later, I am sorry, the talent isn't there.

 

[orangepassion]

We were all unrealistic if we thought its a three year rebuild. Maybe if we brought in saban. I think itll take 8 years total so this and 3 more, to gain consistency.

Are you actually serious? A 8-year rebuild?

 

[RF2044]

Given the schedule breaks in 2018 and losing ED and the recievers, the expectations were based on TD and DINO and the SYSTEM. plug and play, play fast. What was overlooked was TD playing out of the bullpen, an easier ask and thinking we had wrs waiting to break out. 0-2 and in the end this is on coaching after 3 years of hearing fast, tempo, we all thought the system would win out. Well, it's now exposed and yes, the wrs are barely p5 quality. If both Johnson's are still in the mix 3-4 years later, I am sorry, the talent isn't there.

I don't agree -- we are 0-2 because Tommy is subpar -- doesn't matter what he was rated coming out of HS, he doesn't have the chops to succeed at this level -- and because we have a ridiculous amount of injuries plauging our OL interior.

Tommy isn't being held back -- fundamentally, he hasn't lived up to his rating. Would he be better with a stout OL? Sure -- but he still wouldn't live up to the lofty hype coming out of that throwing camp, because he has a million dollar arm throwing in shorts with no live pass rush, but a lousy feel for the game when the lights come on. I feel like we're rewatching Billy Scharr happening all over again.

I think you're focused-- respectfully -- on many of the wrong factors in terms of what is going wrong. The SYSTEM is fine -- we need a QB to run it. When we had one, nobody was complaining about the system.

The skilled talent is young [we've added impressive WRs and TEs in both the class of 2020 and 2021] -- they will emerge.

 

[jgeorge322]

Are you actually serious? A 8-year rebuild?

100%, for sustained success, dino has said as much from day 1.

it takes four years for your first class of players to become rs juniors. And your first class is usually hastily thrown together. Were not alabama. This thing is going to take time. We need depth and that takes a lot of time.

i dont want to be the program that cans a guy after five years to start over again especially when dino has shown ability imho.

 

[OrangePA]

After that Great win over Dabo in 2018. I ran on the field. We all lived dinos style and candor. We believed. 10-3.
Then:
1. Huge (unrealistic) expectations in 2019.
2. A bit of a blind eye at skill position recruiting (the system will take care of it)
3. A blind eye from most about just how many schedule/player injury related breaks we got in 2018. The schedule BROKE perfect.
4. Still being sold the T2 defense.

ZERO talk of the loss of arguably the best qb in program history, hey, the system will take care of it. The speed and tempo, its plug and play. FACT is, the loss of ED has exposed just what is going on here.

Dungey was not the most talented player in SU Football history, but perhaps the most competitive.

 

[phil77]

The legend of Dungey continues soon he will be the best player to ever play for Syracuse

 

[SoBristol]

100%, for sustained success, dino has said as much from day 1.

it takes four years for your first class of players to become rs juniors. And your first class is usually hastily thrown together. Were not alabama. This thing is going to take time. We need depth and that takes a lot of time.

i dont want to be the program that cans a guy after five years to start over again especially when dino has shown ability imho.

I am fine with Dino. He has an excellent special teams coach, and now a promising DC. It didn’t take 8 years. The defense looks like it has depth in most spots, with stars in the secondary and good young LBs. It isn’t an over-powering defense, but it competes.

it is basically back to the QB recruiting and the OL. In the age of transfers and jucos, does it take 8 years? It all depends on how you recruit and/or build with transfers. So, yes, in our case, a minimum of 7 years, unless Dino brings in a transfer QB for next year.

 

[Steelerswan]

Dungey was not the most talented player in SU Football history, but perhaps the most competitive.

No, arguably the best qb along with McNabb

 

[RF2044]

No, arguably the best qb along with McNabb

Better than all-american Marvin Graves? Better than Heisman trophy runner up Don McPherson? Better than NFL draft pick / multi year player Ryan Nassib? Better than one-year starter [but it was a helluva year] and LONG time NFL backup QB Todd Philcox?

He's somewhere in that group, but I don't think there's much of an "argument" that he is 2nd best.

 

[Steelerswan]

Better than all-american Marvin Graves? Better than Heisman trophy runner up Don McPherson? Better than NFL draft pick / multi year player Ryan Nassib? Better than one-year starter [but it was a helluva year] and LONG time NFL backup QB Todd Philcox?

He's somewhere in that group, but I don't think there's much of an "argument" that he is 2nd best.

Yes, as a college QB, he was better and had more of an impact than nassib and I loved nassib. Sure, regarding graves and McPherson, the ED is right there bc when ED left, the team fell off a cliff. ED made all better and the team around him wasn't that good.

 

[Orangello]

He should have fired Cavanaugh after last year so do it after this one and find yourself a significant upgrade. Do whatever you have to and get a transfer or grad transfer QB and open up the competition with the frosh. I think the atrocious play calling deserves equal blame with the subpar QB play this year so I'd be telling Gilbert if there is not significant improvement there during the rest of the season starting Sat., he's next in line. The lack of consistency from week to week and season to season is the most damning indictment against HDCB. I'm writing this year off but if there is not massive improvement next year, assuming they're even playing, you have to consider going in another direction. You simply cannot continue to invest in failure. Period.

 

[RF2044]

Yes, as a college QB, he was better and had more of an impact than nassib and I loved nassib. Sure, regarding graves and McPherson, the ED is right there bc when ED left, the team fell off a cliff. ED made all better and the team around him wasn't that good.

My personal order would be:

McNabb
Graves
McPherson
ED [this is where the argument starts, IMO]
Nassib
Philcox

I don't think there is any way Dungey cracks the top 3. And I LOVE Dungey. Case could certainly be made for Donny Mac over Graves. Similarly, case could be made for Ryan N. over ED, or even Philcox due to length of NFL career. All water cooler talk, and would depend upon subjective opinion. But top 2? I just don't see it, with those two guys ahead of him.