Howard and Battle

[MikeDamone]

Milking the shot clock repeatedly when we were down 15 plus with under 4 minutes to go was especially hard to watch.

Poor coaching? Bad offensive sets? Or just poor decisions on their part?

Game was over but still frusturating to watch

 

[sufandu]

Milking the shot clock repeatedly when we were down 15 plus with under 4 minutes to go was especially hard to watch.

Poor coaching? Bad offensive sets? Or just poor decisions on their part?

Game was over but still frusturating to watch

I don't think they were milking. They were trying to get shots but our offense just doesn't get shots quickly unless guys are just pulling up and jacking threes. Is it design or personnel. I tend to think a bit of both.

 

[Funk Doc]

I don't think they were milking. They were trying to get shots but our offense just doesn't get shots quickly unless guys are just pulling up and jacking threes. Is it design or personnel. I tend to think a bit of both.

This entire season was a square peg, round hole.

Just wish there would have been some offensive adjustments at some point to try something else.

 

[newmexicuse]

This entire season was a square peg, round hole.

Just wish there would have been some offensive adjustments at some point to try something else.

offense has to start with some kind of advantage created by guards. whether advantage is from dribbling or passing. nc took away any dribble advantages. the few times our guards could penetrate, they had a welcoming committee down low. what was surprising was that our big guards could not even get into any sort of an over the top passing lane situation. additionally, nc doubled and pressured our guards into turnovers.

bottom line, we could not out quick them and we could not out strength them.

i am not saying coach should not have come up with something else, but i did not see any exploitable advantages that we had.

they are just a bad matchup for us.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

offense has to start with some kind of advantage created by guards. whether advantage is from dribbling or passing. nc took away any dribble advantages. the few times our guards could penetrate, they had a welcoming committee down low. what wassurprising was that our big guards could not even get into any sort of an over the top passing lane situation. additionally, nc doubled and pressured our guards into turnovers.

bottom line, we could not out quick them and we could not out strength them.

i am not saying coach should have come up with something else, but i did not see any exploitable advantages that we had.

they are just a bad matchup for us.

You make a good point about UNC's bigs being there and ready to help if the guards ever did get by. We have to move our bigs out so their defenders can't help so much. It would be even more helpful if we recruited a big who could move out, receive a pass and hit a 10-15 ft jumper, but maybe I ask too much.

 

[NineOneSeven]

They shot incredibly horrific.

 

[newmexicuse]

You make a good point about UNC's bigs being there and ready to help if the guards ever did get by. We have to move our bigs out so their defenders can't help so much. It would be even more helpful if we recruited a big who could move out, receive a pass and hit a 10-15 ft jumper, but maybe I ask too much.

not only cant our bigs hit theat mid range jumper, but neither can our forwards. oshae lacks the mid range game at this point in time, it is trey or driving to the hole. marek can hit that shot, but his release is so slow and low he needs the full shot clock to get it off.

no threat, no moving them off the blocks.

 

[Funk Doc]

offense has to start with some kind of advantage created by guards. whether advantage is from dribbling or passing. nc took away any dribble advantages. the few times our guards could penetrate, they had a welcoming committee down low. what was surprising was that our big guards could not even get into any sort of an over the top passing lane situation. additionally, nc doubled and pressured our guards into turnovers.

bottom line, we could not out quick them and we could not out strength them.

i am not saying coach should not have come up with something else, but i did not see any exploitable advantages that we had.

they are just a bad matchup for us.

I agree far and away...they beat us 9.5 times out of 10. It was just frustrating to see the same things not work offensively all year, not just this game.

 

[orangecuse]

offense has to start with some kind of advantage created by guards. whether advantage is from dribbling or passing. nc took away any dribble advantages. the few times our guards could penetrate, they had a welcoming committee down low. what was surprising was that our big guards could not even get into any sort of an over the top passing lane situation. additionally, nc doubled and pressured our guards into turnovers.

bottom line, we could not out quick them and we could not out strength them.

i am not saying coach should not have come up with something else, but i did not see any exploitable advantages that we had.

they are just a bad matchup for us.

Yeah, and I can hear Roy crying (due to his laughing so hard) how if only everybody would play that 'dog garn' zone, we wouldn't have these 'dog garn' 9 losses.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Milking the shot clock repeatedly when we were down 15 plus with under 4 minutes to go was especially hard to watch.

Poor coaching? Bad offensive sets? Or just poor decisions on their part?

Game was over but still frusturating to watch

I don't think they were milking the clock. The bigs were doing a good job helping and outside of Brissett we have a kid that weighs 150 pounds and two guys with bad legs who can't jump and MM who is incapable of scoring outside 2 feet.

 

[Janner]

We have no pure point guard and no one that consistently can beat their man off the dribble against good competition. It's a bad recipe for running any offensive set, especially one predicated heavily on Iso basketball. What we have are two big shooting guards, who I would have liked to have seen posting up periodically this year, but I digress

 

[iommi]

Frank can't turn the corner. That's a big thing. And Tyus is very righty dominant. Next year we will have better ball handlers and balance with Carey and Darius, who is a lefty.

 

[Jasoncuse]

They weren't milking the clock. They were playing within JB's offensive plan. Iso with the occasional useless ball screen. There is no movement from anyone else, so Frank and Tyus are forced to do literally everything on their own. Even when they drive, there's no threat of anyone on the team cutting to the basket or flashing for an open jumper.

 

[Funk Doc]

I know it wouldn't have made much difference at all, but did anyone else just get very irritated, watching Frank walk the ball up, down 20 with like 6 minutes to go?

It just made no sense...they were already starting their high pressure and half-court trap on defense, to speed the game up, but then you give the time right back, by walking it across mid court!

 

[iommi]

We have no pure point guard and no one that consistently can beat their man off the dribble against good competition. It's a bad recipe for running any offensive set, especially one predicated heavily on Iso basketball. What we have are two big shooting guards, who I would have liked to have seen posting up periodically this year, but I digress

And JB will ride or die next year with FH too. He will play 35+ MPG.

 

[orangezen]

I know it wouldn't have made much difference at all, but did anyone else just get very irritated, watching Frank walk the ball up, down 20 with like 6 minutes to go?

It just made no sense...they were already starting their high pressure and half-court trap on defense, to speed the game up, but then you give the time right back, by walking it across mid court!

Plus frank needs to tighten up his dribble ..he goes way out from side to side easier to steal ..should dribble closer to body .. but it wont happen

 

[RF2044]

Too much dribbling, letting the shot clock dwindle from both of those guys, without doing anything purposeful.

I've never seen so many shot clock violations.

 

[rrlbees]

And JB will ride or die next year with FH too. He will play 35+ MPG.

Yes he will. As he should, or at least 32+.

 

[rrlbees]

Plus frank needs to tighten up his dribble ..he goes way out from side to side easier to steal ..should dribble closer to body .. but it wont happen

I think only once was the ball stolen from him last night.

 

[iommi]

Too much dribbling, letting the shot clock dwindle from both of those guys, without doing anything purposeful.

I've never seen so many shot clock violations.

Right or wrong, criticism or observation, the ball tends to get sticky when Battle has the ball.

Frank does a lot of east-west dribbling but I think a lot of that is due to his shaky handle and inability to blow by good, physical defenders. That's not likely to change next year and is a big reason why my optimism for next year is a bit tempered. Yes, Carey will be part of the backcourt but Frank will still play huge minutes at PG because of our shooting guards logjam.

 

[iommi]

Yes he will. As he should, or at least 32+.

And we will not be better for it. Frank would be a solid 25 MPG player but that's not going to happen.

 

[RF2044]

And JB will ride or die next year with FH too. He will play 35+ MPG.

A lot depends on who comes back [for the record, I expect Battle to be gone, but wouldn't be that surprised if he opts to comes back]. If Battle were to return, which I don't expect, then we've got a really crowded backcourt. And the downside [if there is one to returning a 20ppg scorer] is that we'd run out the same flawed backcourt against next season, with the same limitations.

If Battle doesn't return, then we have an opportunity to see more of Frank playing off the ball, which I think would be best for both him and the team. Frank as a versatile combo who can handle, make plays for others, drive, and shoot would give us a little more flexibility on offense -- especially if paired with a player like Carey who can take some of the pressure off of him in terms of running the half court offensive sets. Carey wouldn't have to assume the full mantle of responsiblities handling the ball and creating -- he and Frank could share it, and the team might benefit. With Frank, I think that less would be more in terms of his efficiency. Doesn't matter what you call them -- they'd both be just "guards" who can handle, pass, and score. And while they might not be as "talented" as they would be with Battle, the puzzle pieces might fit together a little better, in terms of on-court compatibility.

Also good that Hughes is showing versatility in practices. He'll be able to play with either of those guys. If Washington bounces back and Buddy can contribute some, then the backcourt depth is overflowing even without Battle.

 

[iommi]

I think only once was the ball stolen from him last night.

But his loose handle slows us down. Time is wasted in our possessions because he's not able to be authoritative with his dribble. His handle isn't awful, and it was slightly improved this year but it's still dodgy. His biggest improvement was with his jumper, so I expect him to make some small strides with his handle. That said, he's better suited as a wing and because we need a PG, that's what he will be.

Carey is a better player but Frank will be a senior and JB will lean on that experience.

 

[rrlbees]

And we will not be better for it. Frank would be a solid 25 MPG player but that's not going to happen.

Don’t worry, we’ll be fine and so will Frank. If JB plays him 32+ minutes at PG then he feels that gives us the best chance at being successful.

 

[iommi]

A lot depends on who comes back [for the record, I expect Battle to be gone, but wouldn't be that surprised if he opts to comes back]. If Battle were to return, which I don't expect, then we've got a really crowded backcourt. And the downside [if there is one to returning a 20ppg scorer] is that we'd run out the same flawed backcourt against next season, with the same limitations.

If Battle doesn't return, then we have an opportunity to see more of Frank playing off the ball, which I think would be best for both him and the team. Frank as a versatile combo who can handle, make plays for others, drive, and shoot would give us a little more flexibility on offense -- especially if paired with a player like Carey who can take some of the pressure off of him in terms of running the half court offensive sets. Carey wouldn't have to assume the full mantle of responsiblities handling the ball and creating -- he and Frank could share it, and the team might benefit. With Frank, I think that less would be more in terms of his efficiency. Doesn't matter what you call them -- they'd both be just "guards" who can handle, pass, and score. And while they might not be as "talented" as they would be with Battle, the puzzle pieces might fit together a little better, in terms of on-court compatibility.

Also good that Hughes is showing versatility in practices. He'll be able to play with either of those guys. If Washington bounces back and Buddy can contribute some, then the backcourt depth is overflowing even without Battle.

I disagree about FH playing more off the ball if Tyus leaves. We have way too many 2's for him to do that. He might play some 2, absolutely, but need to find time for Hughes, Buddy and Howard Washington. HW does not plan on taking a shirt. Maybe Hughes plays some 3? JB is really going to have to reconsider how he gives out playing time. Good luck with that.