Howard and Battle

[A Clockwork Orange]

I think the centers score a bit more and Hughes less. I don't see the playing time for him to get to 10ppg. Would love 78 points... I have a similar total ppg. However we still will play slow-ish imo given our strength being the zone, so wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to 70-73. I do expect efficiency higher.

Maybe. It's tough to see this team scoring less than 75 a game, based on last year. With that said, there are players who had more of an offensive profile last year (specifically Chuckwu) who may be expected to do much less in the offense this year. Honestly, I think it's a crapshoot.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I could see a scoop-type senior season for Howard where Carey comes in and snags a bunch of Howard's minutes and Frank plays a huge role, but it's in reduced minutes and not quite the role he played last year.

Scoop
Junior year: 32 mpg, 12.5 points, 10.6 FGAs, 6 assists
Senior year: 24 mpg, 9 ppg, 7 FGAs, 5 assists

Frank
Junior year: 38.4 mpg, 14.4 ppg, 13.4 FGAs, 4.7 assists
Senior year: Who knows, but I could see that be more like: 29 mpg, 10 ppg, 9 FGAs, 5 assists

Assists stay flat or improve based on more offense around him, points and minutes are down, but efficiency is up. Wouldn't be surprised by that.

Why will assists stay flat? That seems absurd to me if you expect his scoring to go down.

Edit - sorry, that came off harsher than intended.

I think Howard's assists will go up, even with reduced minutes, because we will have guys who can both shoot and finish. I hope.

 

[billsin01]

Why will assists stay flat? That seems absurd to me if you expect his scoring to go down.

Edit - sorry, that came off harsher than intended.

I think Howard's assists will go up, even with reduced minutes, because we will have guys who can both shoot and finish. I hope.

All good and maybe his assists go up. The kid can pass the ball and he’s certainly going to have more weapons around him. I also think they’ll play a bit faster this season as well. I was thinking more along the lines of if he loses somewhere around 10 mins a game, then his assists staying flat would be pretty impressive.

But to your point, somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 assists a ge even in reduced minutes is certainly not out of the question.

 

[721Comstock]

All good and maybe his assists go up. The kid can pass the ball and he’s certainly going to have more weapons around him. I also think they’ll play a bit faster this season as well. I was thinking more along the lines of if he loses somewhere around 10 mins a game, then his assists staying flat would be pretty impressive.

But to your point, somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 assists a ge even in reduced minutes is certainly not out of the question.

Frank is not losing 10 mins a game.

Maybe he goes from 38 to 35, or even 33, but barring injury, he’s still getting a crapton of minutes as a Senior starting PG playing for JB.

Dion and MCW both were highly acclaimed Frosh G’s - who had veteran guys entrenched ahead of them, and those guys got almost ALL the minutes.

You know how Boeheim do.

 

[billsin01]

Frank is not losing 10 mins a game.

Maybe he goes from 38 to 35, or even 33, but barring injury, he’s still getting a crapton of minutes as a Senior starting PG playing for JB.

Dion and MCW both were highly acclaimed Frosh G’s - who had veteran guys entrenched ahead of them, and those guys got almost ALL the minutes.

You know how Boeheim do.

I think it's honestly one of the more interesting questions on this team. I tend to feel as you do that Frank will play a ton but I do think there are legitimate scenarios where Frank is closer to 29-30 mins.

For one, veteran guards are exceedingly valuable -- we know this and JB obviously knows this.. BUT JB has shown he's not afriad to use a more equitable rotation if he believes he has the talent. In 11-12, Scoop (a 5th year at this point) went from 32 to 25 mpg and it wasn't because we Dion. In 98-99, Griff ( a junior with two years of pretty solid minutes) lost minutes to Shump and Bland. If Carey comes in and is a guy JB trusts, he'll see the floor some.

Secondly, I don't see those minutes coming out of Battle's total very much. Could see him dropping to more like 35, but I still see him on the floor most of the game every game. So if they're going to give Carey any run, it's going to come from Frank, IMO.

Third, you cited Dion and MCW, but if you look at their seasons, Dion still played 16 mpg despite not being in great condition and telling JB to f-off at one point. MCW, as you point out, clearly took a back seat (10 mpg in 26 out of 37 games) but he was the fourth guard, not the third and was playing behind Scoop (5th year), Triche third year and Waiters who was only in his second year but was arguably the best player on that team and wound up going 3rd in the draft. That's an exceptionally crowded backcourt.

So I think it really comes down to how much does JB trust Carey? Does he see what he wants to see defensively? Does he make good decisions? Does he have the talent and skill set to add something that Frank and/or Battle don't?

If those questions aren't answered positive in Carey's favor, then yeah, I agree, not a guy who's going to pull 20 mpg in place of Frank and Battle. But if he is playing at a solid level, then I would see JB trying to get him 15 a game -- 3-4 mins from Battle and another 9-10 from Frank.

I could see either scenario playing out, but if I had to bet I'd suggest we'll see Carey on the floor for decent chunks of real games.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think it's honestly one of the more interesting questions on this team. I tend to feel as you do that Frank will play a ton but I do think there are legitimate scenarios where Frank is closer to 29-30 mins.

For one, veteran guards are exceedingly valuable -- we know this and JB obviously knows this.. BUT JB has shown he's not afriad to use a more equitable rotation if he believes he has the talent. In 11-12, Scoop (a 5th year at this point) went from 32 to 25 mpg and it wasn't because we Dion. In 98-99, Griff ( a junior with two years of pretty solid minutes) lost minutes to Shump and Bland. If Carey comes in and is a guy JB trusts, he'll see the floor some.

Secondly, I don't see those minutes coming out of Battle's total very much. Could see him dropping to more like 35, but I still see him on the floor most of the game every game. So if they're going to give Carey any run, it's going to come from Frank, IMO.

Third, you cited Dion and MCW, but if you look at their seasons, Dion still played 16 mpg despite not being in great condition and telling JB to -off at one point. MCW, as you point out, clearly took a back seat (10 mpg in 26 out of 37 games) but he was the fourth guard, not the third and was playing behind Scoop (5th year), Triche third year and Waiters who was only in his second year but was arguably the best player on that team and wound up going 3rd in the draft. That's an exceptionally crowded backcourt.

So I think it really comes down to how much does JB trust Carey? Does he see what he wants to see defensively? Does he make good decisions? Does he have the talent and skill set to add something that Frank and/or Battle don't?

If those questions aren't answered positive in Carey's favor, then yeah, I agree, not a guy who's going to pull 20 mpg in place of Frank and Battle. But if he is playing at a solid level, then I would see JB trying to get him 15 a game -- 3-4 mins from Battle and another 9-10 from Frank.

I could see either scenario playing out, but if I had to bet I'd suggest we'll see Carey on the floor for decent chunks of real games.

It's the defense that will decide the answer to this question.

 

[billsin01]

It's the defense that will decide the answer to this question.

Agreed, but I'd argue decision-making is key too. If he's loose on offense and those mistakes are leading to turnovers or runouts and costing us possessions, JB isn't going to like that either. It will still happen at times with the veteran guys, but JB can live with those more than he can with the freshman doing it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Frank lost about 3-4 assists a game last year with the finishes that were blown by Oshae, Chukwu, Marek, and Moyer.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It certainly will be interesting to see. JB still was recently quasi- ridiculing Frank IMO with those recent quotes about those awful fouls he committed in the MSU game. He makes a lot of dumb plays. Part of it could be mental and physical fatigue playing all those minutes.

No doubt he lost a few assists per game due to Chukwu/Marek/Oshae not finishing.

It will be interesting to see when pushing the pace will be deployed. Frank is definitely shaky with the ball in traffic and when he starts to move faster up the court. JC naturally will want to get the ball and GO I think. If those Frank issues continue and some sloppy turnovers on his end make appearances then I think JB will have no choice but to cut his minutes down if JC is playing well and showing he can be trusted. If the offense is performing better with Carey breaking down defenses and attacking well then Frank will sit. JC of course will have to show he can play some defense.

 

[TheGov3304]

Frank Howard & Tyus Battle might be the ACC’s best starting backcourt in 2018-19

In my biased opinion, no other team is close to our backcourt. Frank and Tyus can take any guards off the bounce and lock up at the top of the zone.

 

[SoBeCuse]

In my biased opinion, no other team is close to our backcourt. Frank and Tyus can take any guards off the bounce and lock up at the top of the zone.

Wow. I thought that was one of the key problems last year right up there with the shooting. From the PG position especially...very little attacking and ability to blow by guys consistently. Watch highlights of SGA on Kentucky last season. He was incredible when he took over as PG. He wouldn’t be summoning Chukwu all the time for a screen to bail him out.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Wow. I thought that was one of the key problems last year right up there with the shooting. From the PG position especially...very little attacking and ability to blow by guys consistently. Watch highlights of SGA on Kentucky last season. He was incredible when he took over as PG. He wouldn’t be summoning Chukwu all the time for a screen to bail him out.

He's also a lottery pick

 

[SoBeCuse]

He's also a lottery pick

True but was he even a PG coming into college?

 

[JLine]

Great to argue on whether players will score more or less. We have 8 legitimate ballers. With Buddy and Braswell on the outside looking in who can ball too. Outside chance that we average 80 PPG or damn close. Our backcourt is lethal. The front court isn’t too shabby either. So much depth. This is our best team since 2010. Football is looking up and will contend for a bowl game and even have a shot at 8 wins. Basketball is a legit title contender. Gonna be a fun fall and winter. Will make the snow less obnoxious with two squads that are on the up and up.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Lots of options. Should be fun! I’m going with either Oshae or Tyus as leading scorer. Around 16-17 ppg. It will be interesting to see if Tyus is capable of swinging the ball around and not going ISO/ball stopping when he gets it. I think Carey/Hughes/Boeheim will all contribute. Frank’s usage and volume hopefully goes down. If Carey is trustworthy then JB will use him plenty. That scenario would be excellent for the team because he might be the most talented kid of all of them. 9 guys who should be more than able to contribute positively. Braswell hopefully gets his feet wet in early season routs. A welcomed sight potentially to rest some starters. Otherwise, we won’t be needing him this year. He’ll need to get a lot stronger and learn how to play the game. Can’t wait!

 

[Niastri]

Agree with you. I firmly believe that Boeheim's come to the conclusion that good defense will get him farther than good offense and the pace of play will continue to be slow as a result. (Other factors contribute, too.)

So despite individual talent, I'd be surprised to see us scoring much more than 72 a game.

The difference in the tournament came largely from two differences, and neither was directly from offensive pace of play.

1) Chukwu suddenly became a decent finisher.

2) We started to force turnovers and actually do something with the ball.

If both of these improvements carry over, the scoring will be a lot better without any additional improvement in 3pt shooting. But, our guys shot a much higher percentage late in the year, which quite dramatically improved our performance.

 

[SWC75]

And he used to play third base for the Chiefs!

Howard Battle Minor, Japanese & Independent Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[SoBeCuse]

The difference in the tournament came largely from two differences, and neither was directly from offensive pace of play.

1) Chukwu suddenly became a decent finisher.

2) We started to force turnovers and actually do something with the ball.

If both of these improvements carry over, the scoring will be a lot better without any additional improvement in 3pt shooting. But, or guys sit a much higher percentage late in the year, quick dramatically improved our performance.

Hmmm. I definitely expect the offense to improve like you say. Dramatically. If it doesn’t improve much then I believe OttoMets is correct in terms of Boeheim truly valuing defense more than offense resulting in continued poor details, fundamentals, and pedestrian scheme. More rock fights which truly would be sad.

I’m not so sure re: Tourney. We had Marek play well and make some surprising shots but the offense was terrible. One could argue the pace was even slower. Literally let the clock go down to 10 or below and let Tyus or Oshae do something hopefully good. What truly benefited us, IMO, was the setting and teams unfamiliar with the zone. Turnovers yes but a product more of unfamiliarity and not necessarily ‘forced’ ones. TCU had Dixon but those kids barely saw any zone all year. I was at the ASU game and when they moved the ball/probed properly they got some good stuff. But, too often, they fell into the trap of simply passing side-to-side then launching. They barely saw any zone all year, though.

 

[JoeySimz]

I think Howard and Battle have a strong bond and love playing the top of the zone together. This year they will benefit greatly from the addition of scorers in JC, Buddy, Hughes and Sidibe.

Just having a bench is a huge factor in what options the coach has. Some people just don’t appreciate that the team played through injuries, huge minutes, no bench and often 2 guys on the floor who were little threat to score.

I also think it’s important to note that even when Sidibe played, he was hobbled. We haven’t really seen him at full strength yet. He’s gonna crush it this year. We will have a guy in the post. Frank will get him the ball. And maybe Chu will be more efficient with more rest.

I see our 3pt shooting improving. Frank and Tyus should get better shots with the continual improvement of Oshae, Marek, and Sidibe offensively. I see Hughes spotting up from the corner, JC/Buddy coming off the jb double low screen, even Marek pick n pop might be worth trying.

Oh and Buddy can shoot from pretty much anywhere on the floor. Coach says he will play, we shall see. I expect JC to get minutes regardless of how well Howard and Battle play. Marek’s confidence grew as the season went on and I expect he will be even more aggressive this year. We’ve already talked about Oshae. Things will open up offensively.

 

[Niastri]

Hmmm. I definitely expect the offense to improve like you say. Dramatically. If it doesn’t improve much then I believe OttoMets is correct in terms of Boeheim truly valuing defense more than offense resulting in continued poor details, fundamentals, and pedestrian scheme. More rock fights which truly would be sad.

I’m not so sure re: Tourney. We had Marek play well and make some surprising shots but the offense was terrible. One could argue the pace was even slower. Literally let the clock go down to 10 or below and let Tyus or Oshae do something hopefully good. What truly benefited us, IMO, was the setting and teams unfamiliar with the zone. Turnovers yes but a product more of unfamiliarity and not necessarily ‘forced’ ones. TCU had Dixon but those kids barely saw any zone all year. I was at the ASU game and when they moved the ball/probed properly they got some good stuff. But, too often, they fell into the trap of simply passing side-to-side then launching. They barely saw any zone all year, though.

I agree that defense was the number one reason we did well in the tournament last year.

On the other hand, your response to my offensive comment prompted me to go back and refresh my memory. Looking at the highlights of the games we won, every possession was Igor's Dinoball isolation offense. I distinctly remember it being hard to watch...

But... We started having purpose in our offensive penetration. Almost every basket was started with (and usually finished) with a drive from the perimeter from Brissett, Battle or Howard. They used a huge assortment of floaters, fade aways and dipsy dootles to get their points. It also resulted in a crazy amount of blocked shots and ugly misses. Sometimes the only way we got scored upon was by our own ugly offense starting fast breaks for the other team. However, the disruption caused by our big three getting constant penetration allowed what little offense we got from the other guys.

God I hope we can get away from that ugly do nothing offense this year... But if we can get consistent deadly penetration from the big three again, this year will be a good one. If we can get better finishing after dribble penetration (and fouls called when Brissett attacks the basket) and incremental three point shooting improvement, it will be spectacular!

 

[SoBeCuse]

I agree that defense was the number one reason we did well in the tournament last year.

On the other hand, your response to my offensive comment prompted me to go back and refresh my memory. Looking at the highlights of the games we won, every possession was Igor's Dinoball isolation offense. I distinctly remember it being hard to watch...

But... We started having purpose in our offensive penetration. Almost every basket was started with (and usually finished) with a drive from the perimeter from Brissett, Battle or Howard. They used a huge assortment of floaters, fade aways and dipsy dootles to get their points. It also resulted in a crazy amount of blocked shots and ugly misses. Sometimes the only way we got scored upon was by our own ugly offense starting fast breaks for the other team. However, the disruption caused by our big three getting constant penetration allowed what little offense we got from the other guys.

God I hope we can get away from that ugly do nothing offense this year... But if we can get consistent deadly penetration from the big three again, this year will be a good one. If we can get better finishing after dribble penetration (and fouls called when Brissett attacks the basket) and incremental three point shooting improvement, it will be spectacular!

Yup, good stuff. Better finishing I expect from everybody hopefully. I think Carey will be an X -factor for consistent dribble penetration. God I hope those 3 assist games are far away in the rear view mirror.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Hmmm. I definitely expect the offense to improve like you say. Dramatically. If it doesn’t improve much then I believe OttoMets is correct in terms of Boeheim truly valuing defense more than offense resulting in continued poor details, fundamentals, and pedestrian scheme. More rock fights which truly would be sad.

Not trying to say your wrong or anything but those 'rock' fights are inevitable in this league when you are up against teams like UVA, teams like Duke where everyone is super long but still 18/19 and learning the game, and the 'bad' teams are defense first mini UVAs. We lose enough recruits due to our defensive scheme in snowy Syracuse I'm not sure I'd take the risk of having an unpopular offensive scheme with top high school talent and losing guys due to that. Sure we'd love to see these guys play like Loyola Chicago and move the ball that way but not sure its realistic.

We'll see how a team with everyone back looks. With enough healthy bodies to press more often there will be more turnovers created and thus fast break points on offense.