Howard's Fifth Foul

[kuethstheman]

Yes do you? Where in the rule book did he violate? He didn’t push the guy. He didn’t undercut the guy. He didn’t impede the guy.

I thought he did, at least the push/undercut parts. Funny how people can disagree on stuff like this.

But as I've said before. He might not have called it if not for the travel.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Frank put his arm on the player when he was in the air. The player fell and traveled. The ref had to call something , it was not a play on situation. He made the correct call.

We will have to agree to disagree. Not close to what I saw. Kid fell because he was trying to stay in the front court not because of Frank.

 

[Col. Bleep]

You put a hand on a guy I the air and you're going to get called...especially with the ref right there.
Frank Howard knows or should know that.

But if we're talking about awful calls...the worst was a non-call.
When Brissett went to the hoop and hit a jumper in the lane with 4:37 to go...he was bumped HARD.
I was in front of the TV yelling, "And one!"
But no call.
More surprising is that there was no protest...at least not that I saw.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

We will have to agree to disagree. Not close to what I saw. Kid fell because he was trying to stay in the front court not because of Frank.

He fell because Frank pushed him, even if slightly. Frank used his arm to stop his own body from continuing into the MSU player. No way that wasn't going to get called.

I can only remember two other players ever attempting plays like that. I seem to remember Dion doing it, and usually getting the ball. And Scoop would try it (before his senior year) and the results would likely be exactly what we saw last night.

 

[two3zone]

Yes do you? Where in the rule book did he violate? He didn’t push the guy. He didn’t undercut the guy. He didn’t impede the guy.

He didn't make contact with the guy?

 

[LAOrange]

I don't remember any player getting 4 fouls in a shorter period of time than he did yesterday, then most coaches would have a sub to put in after he got his 2nd or 3rd in that time period.

Frank fouling out was a blessing in disguise: 1) Tyus remembered he can score with the ball in his hands; and 2) we now know we can sub for a short period if either of our guards gets in trouble.

 

[Briancuse]

It was an iffy call but you have to be smarter than that. You can't risk fouling out going for a ball at mid court.

 

[MSOrange]

I don't remember any player getting 4 fouls in a shorter period of time than he did yesterday, then most coaches would have a sub to put in after he got his 2nd or 3rd in that time period.

It was like Etan Thomas fouling out against Georgetown in the 1st half his freshman year. McNabb played the Braedon Bayer that day

 

[upperdeck]

the worst call was when Moyer made the best tackle of any SU player this year and it went uncalled and eventually led to a 3.. if our LBs fille a hole like that we would have had better goal line D

 

[Cowtown]

If you think he landed that way as a result of minimal insidental contact I don’t know what to say. That is like saying OJ was innocent.

A foul occurs when contact either creates an unfair advantage, or creates a disadvantage. Frank contacted the MSU player and he fell to the floor. That's a foul. Period. Further, when a player leaves the floor, he must be allowed to land. If you didn't have position before he leaves the floor, you can't have it when he comes down. Frank never established legal guarding position before the player left the floor so he was responsible for the contact. Contact causing an airborne player to lose his balance and fall to the floor is not incidental if the defender does not have position. It's a foul.

 

[orangecuse]

We will have to agree to disagree. Not close to what I saw. Kid fell because he was trying to stay in the front court not because of Frank.

That's actually a good observation. When the whistle blew, I initially thought was that an over and back? But Frank just can't place himself in that position, with 4 fouls, as a junior nonetheless.

Frank's basketball IQ, situational awareness is questionable for sure. Just like when he attempted that high risk pass to Chukwu at the end of first half in the TCU game. He should have never even thought about that pass, in that particular situation. We were in position to hold the ball for the last shot of the half, where the worse case scenario being we end the half up 3, and best either up 5 or 6. In the end, we ended up being down 1 at the half, which at that moment, was almost impossible to fathom.

 

[Bayside44]

He was undercutting an airborne guy 45 feet from the tin. It was as dumb as you can get.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Frank fouling out was a blessing in disguise: 1) Tyus remembered he can score with the ball in his hands; and 2) we now know we can sub for a short period if either of our guards gets in trouble.

Yup. I mentioned yesterday that I wasn’t worried. Neither was Boeheim as evidence by what he said in the presser that they might even be better off (offensively). I thought that was a very interesting comment. But yeah it didn’t matter since they have been doing the ISO stuff with Tyus and Oshae at the end of games anyways.

 

[rrlbees]

Yup. I mentioned yesterday that I wasn’t worried. Neither was Boeheim as evidence by what he said in the presser that they might even be better off (offensively). I thought that was a very interesting comment. But yeah it didn’t matter since they have been doing the ISO stuff with Tyus and Oshae at the end of games anyways.

As you’ve done before, you didn’t present his full quote nor the context.

 

[moqui]

the closest call of the four was the first. could easily have been called a tie up.

the first three of those four were all him recognizing the need to help on the defensive glass. he was correct, but it's always risky coming in from the backcourt like that . . .

 

[SoBeCuse]

As you’ve done before, you didn’t present his full quote nor the context.

What’s the issue? Boeheim said he wasn’t worried and it obviously didn’t matter. There isn’t even a context to explore. He addressed the fouling out issue and Frank wouldn’t have been making the plays anyways. I don’t see what the problem is here.

 

[Arangeman]

the closest call of the four was the first. could easily have been called a tie up.

the first three of those four were all him recognizing the need to help on the defensive glass. he was correct, but it's always risky coming in from the backcourt like that . . .

I guess but he appears to have a man in a headlock.

Frank is skilled and talented. His decision making is dicey. Really need him to show more discipline next year.

 

[moqui]

I guess but he appears to have a man in a headlock.

that's what drew the whistle, but it could easily have gone as a held ball

 

[Arangeman]

that's what drew the whistle, but it could easily have gone as a held ball

Not to get off topic but I felt when Oshae ripped the ball from Jackson that was a preposterous jump ball. Quick whistle. Another half second it was just Oshae's rock. Jackson almost lost a finger.

Almost came back to bite us.

 

[MonsterGame]

A foul occurs when contact either creates an unfair advantage, or creates a disadvantage. Frank contacted the MSU player and he fell to the floor. That's a foul. Period.View attachment 124985

Flopping or defensive player's trying to sell fouls doesn't happen? This has to be taken into account when making the above statements.

 

[dollarbill44]

had a flashback to Andre Hawkins trying to draw a charge on Michael Adams of BC, darn near close to halfcourt, up 1 with 1 second to go. Lost when the block was called and Adams hit the 2 FTs for the win.

Thanks for bringing back the painful memory. Incidentally, that's an easy charge call under today's rules.

 

[bpo57]

He was undercutting an airborne guy 45 feet from the tin. It was as dumb as you can get.

The irony was that he didn't even make a serious play for stealing the ball. Not that he should have been trying to steal it anyway with four fouls.

 

[OttoMets]

the closest call of the four was the first. could easily have been called a tie up.

the first three of those four were all him recognizing the need to help on the defensive glass. he was correct, but it's always risky coming in from the backcourt like that . . .

I think that one was his third? That was the play where the MSU player went through/over Sidibe's back to get the rebound. I'm OK with the foul call on Frank (though the play should've been whistled dead before he was in that position). It's not at all consistent with how they treat "held balls" when everyone hits the deck in a rugby scrum, but it's still a foul.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I lost it for a hot minute when that happened. Should have really cost us the game. Close call but the correct one.

I just find it unfathomable that a junior player can even get close to committing that foul, given he is one of two indispensable pieces with literally no backup.

Thank goodness Bayer played defense like that.

Well, it was a poor play for sure, but we just have to take the good with the bad. Frank's not going to change his stripes at this point. He will always make a few baffling errors throughout a game.

 

[Brooky03]

OT: Did anybody see what the refs did to Macura on Xavier? If a Xavier fan came up to me and argued the refs stole that game from them, I'd be in 100% agreement. Xavier was up double digits when he picked up his 3rd foul on a totally clean block. I don't mean a good block that had a little contact; he didn't make contact with anything but the ball. Then he picked up his 4th foul on a 100% clean steal that would have led to a breakaway layup. Xavier had to bench him, which led to Florida State's comeback run. He gets back in the game when FSU had it nearly tied and picks up his 5th on a call only very slightly better than the two atrocious calls that preceded it. I felt like Frank got screwed but it was nothing compared to what happened to Macura.