Huggy Bear resigns

[MDCuse]

It sucks it was a parent driving this and that it impacts and reflects upon him as such. That said be it unfair as it was for his family putting him in this position- it still is what it is.

Yes and no. Jesse is 23 years old. Yes, he probably followed his dad's lead, but he's a full grown adult that is capable of making his decisions. Again, I don't fault him at all for his decision, but it's his decision. And to, again, make this clear...I have no issue with his decision. It's one we all probably would have made. What I had issue with was the shots taken at the Cuse program. Not necessary, and came across poorly.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yes and no. Jesse is 23 years old. Yes, he probably followed his dad's lead, but he's a full grown adult that is capable of making his decisions. Again, I don't fault him at all for his decision, but it's his decision. And to, again, make this clear...I have no issue with his decision. It's one we all probably would have made. What I had issue with was the shots taken at the Cuse program. Not necessary, and came across poorly.

Wasn't excusing it at all. Simply pointing out that no matter whose driving it- what was said and done was said and done. Doesn't change anything.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

This burns a bridge with McLeod and possibly Brown to some extent too. Both guys who have more than just this year they could play an important role.

It also puts a question mark out there to how good is your word on the recruiting trail. So one player who may or may not be a massive difference maker in a different style at the expense of how many others?

Also I would argue the effort and focus on a strong year this year has been made. Jesse is a good big man but he's not freaking Kareem- and his impact would be different and reduced in a guard dominant system.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I've been lukewarm on McLeod basically since we first got connected to him, so that's where a lot of this comes from. Jesse isn't Kareem (and I never said as much) but the gap between him and McLeod is pretty massive IMO, as is both the team's floor and ceiling with him vs. without.

And I'm not especially concerned about it affecting our word on the recruiting trail. Guys get recruited over all the time. We just haven't been in this scenario for awhile because the most talented players haven't been interested in playing for Cuse since like 2018. Things can change quickly and when you least expect it.

To be clear, I've been really pleased with Red's effort and focus since he took on the job; That's not at question here in the least.

 

[Cuse181]

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I've been lukewarm on McLeod basically since we first got connected to him, so that's where a lot of this comes from. Jesse isn't Kareem (and I never said as much) but the gap between him and McLeod is pretty massive IMO, as is both the team's floor and ceiling with him vs. without.

And I'm not especially concerned about it affecting our word on the recruiting trail. Guys get recruited over all the time. Things can change quickly and when you least expect it.

To be clear, I've been really pleased with Red's effort and focus since he took on the job; That's not at question here in the least.

If Jesse came back (which won’t happen) everyone poo pooing the idea would immediately do a 180 and start talking about how good the team could be.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

How did jesse act unethically? He made a financial choice - i doubt anyone posting here would have chosen differently when presented with the money. It wasnt personal.

This is an acc contender with him back and i like winning basketball games more than patting myself on the back for being a good guy.

Definitely feels like an agree to disagree situation- but people make tough calls like this every day without their morals being questioned. He’s a kid, he did nothing wrong here

The only way that this can even be looked as unethical, is that supposedly (I was not there) Jesse (and possibly his father) agreed not just once but twice to an agreement/NIL offered by Syracuse. Then went out not once but twice to find other offers/opportunities and bought them back to Syracuse to see if would match or exceed the offers. If the Edwards family (or just Jesse) agreed to either or both of these offers, I would say their further negotiations would be viewed as unethical.

One can look at this in different ways like shopping for a car and getting the lowest price or reaching an agreement to sell your wares at a price higher than market.

Personally, I may have had reservations changing Syracuse’s original offer if Jesse had agreed to it.

 

[Orangezoo]

If Jesse came back (which won’t happen) everyone poo pooing the idea would immediately do a 180 and start talking about how good the team could be.

Negative ghost rider. Would have major concerns at this point. Would need a lot of explanation and background to feel comfortable this wouldn't backfire.

 

[Orangezoo]

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I've been lukewarm on McLeod basically since we first got connected to him, so that's where a lot of this comes from. Jesse isn't Kareem (and I never said as much) but the gap between him and McLeod is pretty massive IMO, as is both the team's floor and ceiling with him vs. without.

And I'm not especially concerned about it affecting our word on the recruiting trail. Guys get recruited over all the time. We just haven't been in this scenario for awhile because the most talented players haven't been interested in playing for Boeheim since like 2018. Things can change quickly and when you least expect it.

To be clear, I've been really pleased with Red's effort and focus since he took on the job; That's not at question here in the least.

This isn't recruiting over- this is pulling the chair out. That's the part yall are missing. There is a big difference.

Also it's more than fair to have question marks on McLeod. It's also fair to have the same with Jesse in a mtm setting when he struggled with foul trouble for his first 3 years and hasn't added much more weight on.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Jesse isn't coming back here. This conjecture is pointless.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Just the opposite. People that have a history of Business, life and sports know you can't last long screwing over people. We made promises to kids about their future with the team this year. We did that because jesse bailed on us. Not the other way around. We cancelled the foreign trip. I wish Jesse was still here. He left us. Said some negative things on his way out the door. We made commitments to other kids. Now, because things didn't work out at West Virginia, we should reneg on what we have done in response? That isn't a good long term way to operate. Might help us this year. Might not. But we will regret it at some point if we did that.

I wish I could disagree with this.
But I can't.
It's exactly right (although I was unaware of Jesse's negative comments which I find suprising).

SU made commitments to others after Jesse bolted.
Those committments must be honored.

With Jesse this is a top 25 team next season.
Without him...big potential but a lot of question marks.

Wish he could still be Orange.
But, barring some unforseen issue with one of the current SU players, he can't.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How did jesse act unethically? He made a financial choice - i doubt anyone posting here would have chosen differently when presented with the money. It wasnt personal.

This is an acc contender with him back and i like winning basketball games more than patting myself on the back for being a good guy.

Definitely feels like an agree to disagree situation- but people make tough calls like this every day without their morals being questioned. He’s a kid, he did nothing wrong here

It wasn’t unethical, but he used us as a bargaining chip and said a bunch of BS on the way out.

There’s zero chance he’s on the roster next year.

 

[Orangezoo]

I wish I could disagree with this.
But I can't.
It's exactly right (although I was unaware of Jesse's negative comments which I find suprising).

SU made commitments to others after Jesse bolted.
Those committments must be honored.

With Jesse this is a top 25 team next season.
Without him...big potential but a lot of question marks.

Wish he could still be Orange.
But, barring some unforseen issue with one of the current SU players, he can't.

Honestly it isn't Jesse that makes or breaks this as a top 25 team as I see it. It's the stable of guards coming in as advertised and development of the the returning guys as well. So Jesse or no Jesse- our backcourt is our strength and will be the biggest determining factor for us. Especially given the defensive methodology changes we likely will see.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

This isn't recruiting over- this is pulling the chair out. That's the part yall are missing. There is a big difference.

I guess I don't really see that difference, though I would feel for McLeod.

I get that Jesse isn't coming back, but if Autry returns the program to glory like we're hoping, he's going to have high-quality recruits and transfers wanting to play for him left and right. The downside of that is that incumbents will get squeezed out from time to time, even if they didn't do anything wrong.

It's not a pretty part of the business, but it is a reality, especially in the portal era.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I guess I don't really see that difference, though I would feel for McLeod.

I get that Jesse isn't coming back, but if Autry returns the program to glory like we're hoping, he's going to have high-quality recruits and transfers wanting to play for him left and right. The "downside" of that is that incumbents will get squeezed out from time to time, even if they didn't do anything wrong.

It's not a pretty part of the business, but it is a reality, especially in the portal era.

Yeah, but this isn’t recruiting. This is taking a player back that everyone assumed left.

 

[RF2044]

How did jesse act unethically? He made a financial choice - i doubt anyone posting here would have chosen differently when presented with the money. It wasnt personal.

This is an acc contender with him back and i like winning basketball games more than patting myself on the back for being a good guy.

Definitely feels like an agree to disagree situation- but people make tough calls like this every day without their morals being questioned. He’s a kid, he did nothing wrong here

I'll take a stab at your question. He acted unethically by reneging on two agreements the family made for NIL with Syracuse. Both times, the coaching staff met the family's demands and came through with the requested amounts they were looking for.

In fact, after the initial deal was arranged and agreed upon, Jesse's father came back to Red and said that they had a higher offer from another program, and would SU match. Red was annoyed since a deal was already agreed upon, but increased the NIL amount to meet their new request.

Then a few weeks later, Mr. Edwards asked for even MORE on the basis that they'd gotten another "higher offer" from WVU-- and only at that point did the coaching staff decline to renegotiate the already renegotiated deal.

So I don't know if it is "unethical," per se -- but they certainly didn't negotiate in good faith. And you can certainly make the case that it was unethical for the Edwards's to be talking to other programs and fielding offers when he was a member of the SU program, with two NIL deals already in place -- let alone going back on their word multiple times after SU delivered the NIL they were looking for not once but twice.

 

[OrangeDW]

Personally, I think every prominent program in the country should’ve held a roster spot open for Jesse, and ALL college b-ball big men should’ve been briefed that their roles may be drastically reduced next season depending on the whims of this game changing giant.

 

[MikeSU02]

Are we talking about Anthony Davis here?

He burned us 2x. That’s fine. It’s his life. But with his being an int’l kid, that meant more extensive planning.

Him coming back would pull a committed scholarship. It would change the dynamic of the current committed team.

Oh btw, we’d have to make sure that Jesse is good with his touches going down on O and being asked to do more on defense. Basically, we’d be asking him to be a college version of Clint Capella.

I like Jesse. I think he made a bet for short term gain. At his age, I probably would have done the same thing if I’m being honest. Problem is 1) those deals never come through in full (I’ve heard 40% realization is a good bet) and 2) at Syracuse, Jesse (and this my pure speculation now) Jesse may have had a lower NIL deal, but a better chance of seeing closer to max value on the contract.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Honestly I like how our team is built for next year. The game is perimeter oriented and will make for a fun and exciting (as well as hopefully winning) style. I’m not sure if having the offense go through Jesse would work as well. Red seems to be modeling after those recent successful Nova teams and I’m all for it.

Yeah, I agree. He wasn't really that great offensively with his back to the basket; he seemed to travel quite a lot. And it would appear that we have the shot blockers to replace him defensively, and maybe even be better.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Jesse isn't coming back here. This conjecture is pointless.

And yet it will continue for days.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I’m just saying if he really wanted to come back I feel Syracuse should figure out a way to have him back it makes no sense not to

No, I don't think so. His dad made his choice for him. Happy Father's Day.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Jesse is an Adult.

Sort of ...

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Jesse rubbed me the wrong way with some of his comments about a fresh start and SU’s commitment to NIL. However, he later said many complimentary things, went to the JB gala I think, said great things about SU and the staff to McLeod, etc. and seems popular with his teammates. Maybe his original comments came out in a way that wasn’t intended, I don’t know.

it is true that the negotiations appear to have been handled very poorly by his father. On the other hand, he was a 4 year guy who will forever have his SU degree.

These days, it is all about the $$$. The guys we just brought in from the portal didn’t come to SU in exchange for Starbucks gift cards. Everyone is a free agent and going forward, every coach at a major school will be pruning unproductive players or even non-starting bench players to make room for shiny objects from the portal. That loyalty or lack of it will go both ways. The days of beloved four year players are going to be fading into the rear view mirror. A guy may love the school and the fans, but when the siren song of $$$ from another school is whispered in his ear, he will listen. Tampering or not, it isn’t the player’s job to enforce the rules. Guys’ loyalty will be to their wallets.

It reminds me of the old joke:

A guy says to woman “will you sleep with me for a million dollars? And she says ”sure”!

Then he says “will you sleep with me for five bucks? and she says “of course not! What do you think I am?”

The guy replies “we’ve already established what you are. Now we are just haggling over price.”

 

[shandeezy7]

I guess I don't really see that difference, though I would feel for McLeod.

I get that Jesse isn't coming back, but if Autry returns the program to glory like we're hoping, he's going to have high-quality recruits and transfers wanting to play for him left and right. The downside of that is that incumbents will get squeezed out from time to time, even if they didn't do anything wrong.

It's not a pretty part of the business, but it is a reality, especially in the portal era.

The difference is that you are throwing a kid out on his behind two months before the Fall semester starts, when most teams have their rosters set for next year. Incredibly unfair and even unethical. Heck of a big difference between that and being recruited over before the prior season ends.

 

[IthacaMatt]

"Being a Cuse walk-on might be one of his dwindling options"

He would probably have 20 P5 schools that would take him on scholarship in a heartbeat, come on lol

Most of the best teams have full rosters by now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Most of the best teams have full rosters by now.

He probably could go to UK.

 

[IthacaMatt]

How did jesse act unethically? He made a financial choice - i doubt anyone posting here would have chosen differently when presented with the money. It wasnt personal.

This is an acc contender with him back and i like winning basketball games more than patting myself on the back for being a good guy.

Definitely feels like an agree to disagree situation- but people make tough calls like this every day without their morals being questioned. He’s a kid, he did nothing wrong here

I think the idea is that we made an offer, they asked for more, we met the higher number, and then they shopped it for a better offer.

That's how I took people's posts in this thread.