Hunt

[qdawgg]

I used to wonder how parents were so quick to defend the actions of their kids and then blame everyone else for their kids stupidity. I stopped wondering, it's not just parents - America is full of p****'s that can't handle the idea of being responsible for themselves and paying for their actions. Do something stupid, pay the price. If you don't understand that concept your an idiot.

 

[Toga]

I used to wonder how parents were so quick to defend the actions of their kids and then blame everyone else for their kids stupidity. I stopped wondering, it's not just parents - America is full of p****'s that can't handle the idea of being responsible for themselves and paying for their actions. Do something stupid, pay the price. If you don't understand that concept your an idiot.

Of course some kids don't have any parents to defend (or not) their actions.

I don't think anyone disagrees that punishment was in order. To state otherwise is strawman stuff. The problem some of us have is (a) consistency and (b) whether some other punishment would have been more appropriate.

 

[rrlbees]

I wonder if those who think Marrone was an idiot for suspending Hunt for the spring would feel the same way if it had been some 3rd stringer. I think many only care because he is potentially the starting QB next year. Hopefully Marrone doesn't care and doesn't take that into consideration. Is stealing that much less of an offense than punching someone? Miller got booted. Other kids did less and got worse than a spring suspension. I also think Hunt could have been close to the last straw from a team trouble standpoint. Too many have gotten in trouble and Marrone may be laying down tougher penalties. If you take just the 5 well publicized ones, Sales, Carter, Miller, Hunt and Cater, I think Hunt's punishment falls pretty much in line for the crime.

 

[Toga]

"Other kids did less and got worse than a spring suspension"

Who did less and got more?

 

[rrlbees]

The problem some of us have is (a) consistency

Then you should have been screaming when many other kids before got the boot, not Hunt's punishment.

 

[RF2044]

I used to wonder how parents were so quick to defend the actions of their kids and then blame everyone else for their kids stupidity. I stopped wondering, it's not just parents - America is full of p****'s that can't handle the idea of being responsible for themselves and paying for their actions. Do something stupid, pay the price. If you don't understand that concept your an idiot.

Give me a ing break.

How naive. If the coaching staff took the approach of suspending players for every off-the-field violation that the team committed, then they wouldn't be fielding a team for long. Fact. I'm all in favor of a culture of discipline and holding players accountable for their actions, but I don't subscribe to the philosophy that every violation requires equivalent punishment. There are lots of ways for the coaching staff to send a message / teach a lesson.

 

[bothsocksup]

I like how Hunt has now become the most exciting player on the team, without ever being seen in public. I honestly cant wait to see what this kids got

 

[Toga]

Then you should have been screaming when many other kids before got the boot, not Hunt's punishment.

That's why I asked you the question.

 

[brandokc]

Just to play devil's advocate on this one. How do we know this is his first transgression?

Also, if he is being groomed to be the leader of this team then HCDM may have been trying to send him a message about being a leader. From the most intense fire is forged the strongest steel.

I am in management and I hold my leaders/top performers to a higher standard. Others look up to them. Aspire to be them.

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[bevosu]

I think most of the posters in this thread would agree with that concept

'Do something stupid, pay the price'

It's the price that seems to be driving the debate.

But, I do want it understood...I am not responsible for anything that this post might be attempting to say.

 

[tep624]

I wonder if those who think Marrone was an idiot for suspending Hunt for the spring would feel the same way if it had been some 3rd stringer. I think many only care because he is potentially the starting QB next year. Hopefully Marrone doesn't care and doesn't take that into consideration. Is stealing that much less of an offense than punching someone? Miller got booted. Other kids did less and got worse than a spring suspension. I also think Hunt could have been close to the last straw from a team trouble standpoint. Too many have gotten in trouble and Marrone may be laying down tougher penalties. If you take just the 5 well publicized ones, Sales, Carter, Miller, Hunt and Cater, I think Hunt's punishment falls pretty much in line for the crime.

The fact that he's the heir apparent at QB is the only reason people are getting pissy about his punishment. I agree 100% on that one. If it was a Walkon or 4th stringer, noone would give a .

No one here has any knowledge whatsoever as to where Hunt was as far as his general citizenship in the program and what was going on behind the scenes, not less the politics in play after the Cater incident. I really don't see how the punishment was any different than any of the more high profile punishments handed out.

And also, maybe I'm biased and am tired of hearing the "his environment did it" cop out. There are plenty of kids that have grown up in environments similar (my roommate in college, for instance) and aren't getting a full ride for school that aren't out stealing. He f'ed up which I'm sure he would be the first to admit, and he got punished for it. Get over it.

 

[RF2044]

The fact that he's the heir apparent at QB is the only reason people are getting pissy about his punishment. I agree 100% on that one. If it was a Walkon or 4th stringer, noone would give a ****.

No one here has any knowledge whatsoever as to where Hunt was as far as his general citizenship in the program and what was going on behind the scenes, not less the politics in play after the Cater incident. I really don't see how the punishment was any different than any of the more high profile punishments handed out.

And also, maybe I'm biased and am tired of hearing the "his environment did it" cop out. There are plenty of kids that have grown up in environments similar (my roommate in college, for instance) and aren't getting a full ride for school that aren't out stealing. He f'ed up which I'm sure he would be the first to admit, and he got punished for it. Get over it.

Just for argument's sake, please point to one post from any poster in any thread where the "his environment did it" argument was suggested that you are so tired of hearing.

I'll wait.

BS straw man.

 

[cuseincincy]

I wonder if those who think Marrone was an idiot for suspending Hunt for the spring would feel the same way if it had been some 3rd stringer. I think many only care because he is potentially the starting QB next year. Hopefully Marrone doesn't care and doesn't take that into consideration. Is stealing that much less of an offense than punching someone? Miller got booted. Other kids did less and got worse than a spring suspension. I also think Hunt could have been close to the last straw from a team trouble standpoint. Too many have gotten in trouble and Marrone may be laying down tougher penalties. If you take just the 5 well publicized ones, Sales, Carter, Miller, Hunt and Cater, I think Hunt's punishment falls pretty much in line for the crime.

Umm Bees, Hunt is a 3rd teamer. The punishment was counterproductive for the team and the player involved. It only satisfied those who want a pound of flesh for any athlete and want to hold them to a higher standard. If Marrone had been thinking about his program and the player who made a mistake he would have made him participate fully in every minute of spring practice, work his tail off, hold him out of the Spring game and add any other punishment that would keep him close to the program. Cutting him loose was irresponsible in my opinion. To be honest I think Marrone took the easy way out. Working with the kid and teaching him a lesson would have been much harder. Who knows if Hunt will ever play QB or any other position at SU, Marrone just made it less likely.

 

[DeepThrowIt]

Give me a ******* break.

I'm all in favor of a culture of discipline and holding players accountable for their actions, but I don't subscribe to the philosophy that every violation requires equivalent punishment. There are lots of ways for the coaching staff to send a message / teach a lesson.

HCDM thought this violation required a 15 practice suspension. He obviously didn't think your ideas of sprints, push ups, and a scolding (what is this, sixth grade rec league?) we're enough in Hunt's case. Who are we to judge this? Are we in Manley everyday and know everything that goes on? If you are, I apologize if this is considered dogma to you.

Delone was suspended for four months FROM THE UNIVERSITY. Hunt was suspended from fifteen football practices. Big difference.

 

[kcsu]

I hope that Doug understands that discipline and fear which can be forced based on position are short lived and never the basis for leadership. Respect which has nothing to do with position or title is earned and is the true basis of leadership.

 

[tep624]

Just for argument's sake, please point to one post from any poster in any thread where the "his environment did it" argument was suggested that you are so tired of hearing.

I'll wait.

BS straw man.

Cusestudent. First response to me, midway first page.

Unless "Crime is the product of social conditions when talking about this crime level" has some secret meaning I'm not clued in to.

Maybe actually reading hat everyone wrote in this thread would be a good start...

 

[RF2044]

HCDM thought this violation required a 15 practice suspension. He obviously didn't think your ideas of sprints, push ups, and a scolding (what is this, sixth grade rec league?) we're enough in Hunt's case. Who are we to judge this? Are we in Manley everyday and know everything that goes on? If you are, I apologize if this is considered dogma to you.

Delone was suspended for four months FROM THE UNIVERSITY. Hunt was suspended from fifteen football practices. Big difference.

Delone was suspended BY THE UNIVERSITY's JUDICIAL REVIEW BOARD, not by the football program. When he returned, he was subjected to unspecified, off the field penalties that didn't involve a suspension from practices. After he fulfilled them to the coaching staff's satisfaction, he was cleared to practice.

I agree--we aren't in Manley everyday, and aren't privvy to everything that goes on. Are you suggesting that Hunt was guilty of more than what has been revealed?

Lastly, pushups and a scolding is what you generalized from the punishments I've suggested in numerous posts I've made on this subject? LOL. I look forward to your next tremendously generalized post about Syracuse's chances with a recruiting prospect.

 

[maxxyz]

Where is the outrage for Johnny Miller? He gone from the team for stealing. Granted it was more than shoplifting but I don't hear anyone screaming how stupid Marrone is about that.

The kid messed up. He received his punishment. He'll move on and so should you.

 

[rrlbees]

Umm Bees, Hunt is a 3rd teamer. The punishment was counterproductive for the team and the player involved. It only satisfied those who want a pound of flesh for any athlete and want to hold them to a higher standard. If Marrone had been thinking about his program and the player who made a mistake he would have made him participate fully in every minute of spring practice, work his tail off, hold him out of the Spring game and add any other punishment that would keep him close to the program. Cutting him loose was irresponsible in my opinion. To be honest I think Marrone took the easy way out. Working with the kid and teaching him a lesson would have been much harder. Who knows if Hunt will ever play QB or any other position at SU, Marrone just made it less likely.

he may have been the 2nd teamer and would most definitely have been a strong candidate to start next year. but since you want to nit pick about the term 3rd stringer, just use a name instead. what if it had been joe nassib? none of these complaining posts would even appear. where were these complaints about punishment for any number of other kids? was everyone up in arms about the release of miller? look at all the kids that have had off the field trouble. only look at williams, carter, cater, miller, sales, etc. you think maybe marrone has had enough and laid down a stronger policy? maybe he has had enough?

 

[RF2044]

he may have been the 2nd teamer and would most definitely have been a strong candidate to start next year. but since you want to nit pick about the term 3rd stringer, just use a name instead. what if it had been joe nassib? none of these complaining posts would even appear. where were these complaints about punishment for any number of other kids? was everyone up in arms about the release of miller? look at all the kids that have had off the field trouble. only look at williams, carter, cater, miller, sales, etc. you think maybe marrone has had enough and laid down a stronger policy? maybe he has had enough?

Actually, some posters WERE up in arms about some of the discipline being meted out early in Marrone's tenure--especially that first off-season, where several players were summarily dismissed for seemingly minor issues.

Your point about third stringers / walk ons doesn't hold up IMO, because those things wouldn't be publicized.

 

[RF2044]

Cusestudent. First response to me, midway first page.

Unless "Crime is the product of social conditions when talking about this crime level" has some secret meaning I'm not clued in to.

Maybe actually reading hat everyone wrote in this thread would be a good start...

I stand corrected--one poster had one sentence referring to that. Besides that, I have yet to see one other post in any other thread on this subject making the claim that Hunt's shoplifting is justifiable due to the tragedy associated with his parents. Not one. So if you feel that the one sentence you reference warranted the reaction of you being sick of the voluminous excuses being made for Hunt, you'll excuse me for pointing out that the vast majority of posters aren't expressing that opinion.

Here is something from your earlier post that I couldn't agree with more:

No one here has any knowledge whatsoever as to where Hunt was as far as his general citizenship in the program and what was going on behind the scenes, not less the politics in play after the Cater incident. ​

Very true. If Hunt is a problem--on or off the field in any way that hasn't been publicized, then my criticism of the way this has been handled is based upon incomplete information. A player who has recurring issues deserves more severe penalties than a first time offender--no argument there.

 

[Toga]

he may have been the 2nd teamer and would most definitely have been a strong candidate to start next year. but since you want to nit pick about the term 3rd stringer, just use a name instead. what if it had been joe nassib? none of these complaining posts would even appear. where were these complaints about punishment for any number of other kids? was everyone up in arms about the release of miller? look at all the kids that have had off the field trouble. only look at williams, carter, cater, miller, sales, etc. you think maybe marrone has had enough and laid down a stronger policy? maybe he has had enough?

I am still curious who had lesser infractions but incurred greater penalties than Hunt. For confidentiality sake, you could do it as - Player A did this and got that. Thanks

 

[OrangeHeel]

I work as a prosecutor & make decisions every day that affect people's lives. I try my best to make those decisions based on all of the facts of each case. The only consistency is that each decision is based on the same goal -- fairness to all involved. Often what seems inconsistent to the public is due to the simple reason that they do not and can not have access to all the facts. Do I think in hindsight I've been 100% right with every decision? No, but it's the nature of the system that judgments have to be made.

In this case, I'll defer to HCDM's superior knowledge of all of the facts. I'll accept that missing 15 practices was an appropriate punishment. And if 15 practices is the difference between success & failure, then perhaps our young QB prospect wasn't much of a prospect after all.

Finally, so long as the staff isn't giving up on a player, then being tough on them is not a bad thing so long as there is a second chance available. Personally, I'm happy to see there is a different approach taken at SU then at some of the well-known football factories. I believe it's possible to be successful and simultaneously stay true to your principles.


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[hungrychuck]

I work as a prosecutor & make decisions every day that affect people's lives. I try my best to make those decisions based on all of the facts of each case. The only consistency is that each decision is based on the same goal -- fairness to all involved. Often what seems inconsistent to the public is due to the simple reason that they do not and can not have access to all the facts. Do I think in hindsight I've been 100% right with every decision? No, but it's the nature of the system that judgments have to be made.

In this case, I'll defer to HCDM's superior knowledge of all of the facts. I'll accept that missing 15 practices was an appropriate punishment. And if 15 practices is the difference between success & failure, then perhaps our young QB prospect wasn't much of a prospect after all.

Finally, so long as the staff isn't giving up on a player, then being tough on them is not a bad thing so long as there is a second chance available. Personally, I'm happy to see there is a different approach taken at SU then at some of the well-known football factories. I believe it's possible to be successful and simultaneously stay true to your principles.


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Thank you.

 

[Cusee44]

I agree, Doug was an idiot on this. We have politicians and coaches that have done far worse and seen no consequences.

Yes, Coach Marrone should drop the whole integrity thing and let any kid play so that you can enjoy the game. Forget the kid's life as a whole. Forget about setting a good example because you're clearly much more important. And of course, justify what he should have done by comparing him to someone worse because that's how one should go about making decisions in life.