Hunt

[phil77]

Let me start this thread by saying I am not pushing for Allen to start that is not what this thread is about. In fact I would want Wilson or Kimble to start if I had my choice.


My question for the people defending Hunt and still talking about his upside and his future with Syracuse. I have a couple questions for you...

What do you see that others are not seeing? Meaning looking at the numbers the last three games they have been historically bad. In the last three games he hasn't shown any flashes with his arm. Meaning not one time did he spin a ball and said I WOW There is a next level throw. He can run sure but that isn't enough to make it in this league. Things you can't really teach is what I see lacking in Hunt. I am just curious as to what I am missing and why you still hold him in high hopes?


As any player with the Syracuse jersey on I will support every Saturday and cheering for them to do the best they can. I don't care who starts at QB as long as we win.

 

[FAL]

Kid is not a train wreck. Let's give players and especially coaches a chance to right the ship. Still got another half season to play out. Time for reflection and soul-searching later. Not saying you are wrong, but everybody needs a good dose of Tincture of Time--good medicine but hard to swallow.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Square pegs vs round holes.

Seems we have an offensive system we are hell bent on running despite the fact that the pieces we have would likely fit better. I had this revalation while Tech was pounding us to death with the triple option thinking "hmmmm Hunt + Smith + Gulley or Broyld + Smith + Gulley would probably run the option extremely well".

 

[will6786]

well clemson alot of qb's have problems with team except jameis winston,as for nc state those int's would not of happened if the offensive line protected on the one to jarrod west as for the one to christopher clark if he was a second quicker on the read that would of not been a int..as for ga tech he had some nice passes but penalties and protection issues.also what i thought be a decent crop of wr's who went south since tulane.

 

[TheCusian]

Why would he look dominate against weak teams and inept vs. ACC teams?

Against good competition our guys are not getting open. Especially against press, man to man coverage.

Plus his confidence is down and he is second guessing himself now. Makes it tough.

I defend and root for him because we've won games with him and he has a semblance of pocket awareness.

Allen came in last week and I groaned...

 

[tep624]

Why would he look dominate against weak teams and inept vs. ACC teams?

Against good competition our guys are not getting open. Especially against press, man to man coverage.

Plus his confidence is down and he is second guessing himself now. Makes it tough.

I defend and root for him because we've won games with him and he has a semblance of pocket awareness.

Allen came in last week and I groaned...

He's not going through his progressions, which is something that he really excelled at during his first 2 starts. That shouldn't have been impacted by quality of opponent, unless we're saying he doesn't have time to go through progressions which isn't the case from what I've seen. When he has the time to throw he's locking in on 1 receiver and that's it. (I did not see the NC State game but I did see the Clemson and G Tech games and that was my takeway from those 2 games where he really struggled.)

 

[RICuse44]

He's not going through his progressions, which is something that he really excelled at during his first 2 starts. That shouldn't have been impacted by quality of opponent, unless we're saying he doesn't have time to go through progressions which isn't the case from what I've seen. When he has the time to throw he's locking in on 1 receiver and that's it. (I did not see the NC State game but I did see the Clemson and G Tech games and that was my takeway from those 2 games where he really struggled.)

Agree. Don't know why he is doing this. Against Tulane he did a nice job of looking off the safeties then going to the other side of the field. Since then it's like his head has exploded. They could still make things a little easier by playing PTG and Rome at the same time making the defense to account for those two and creating some misdirection since we aren't getting it done with the passing game. I still thought the offense flowed better than when Allen was in against GT.

 

[Crusty]

Nothing to do - the dye is cast for the rest of the year. Hunt will either grow or someone will beat him out next year.

As for Wilson and Kimble you can't be serious. They are hardly ready, why throw them to the wolves and burn a rs to boot?

I am betting that Hunt will d the job the rest of the way this season.

 

[phil77]

My thought about Wilson and Kimble is why not? They can't be any worse or less ready than what Hunt has shown the last 3 games and what Allen has shown the first 2 games. Other teams in the nation have no problem starting true freshman I don't know why we are so special especially since we are currently getting terrible QB play. I am not worried about burning a red shirt. We have two freshman this year and two incoming freshman next year. The last thing I would be worried about is burning a red shirt this year. But then again I don't know.

 

[Crusty]

My thought about Wilson and Kimble is why not? They can't be any worse or less ready than what Hunt has shown the last 3 games and what Allen has shown the first 2 games. Other teams in the nation have no problem starting true freshman I don't know why we are so special especially since we are currently getting terrible QB play. I am not worried about burning a red shirt. We have two freshman this year and two incoming freshman next year. The last thing I would be worried about is burning a red shirt this year. But then again I don't know.

"Why not" is not how to manage a team. Kimble is a project and Wilson has probably not had one rep with the 1's.

Other teams have top talent that can play right away - we don't.

It is easy for you to say those things from the bleachers but coaches have hours and hours invested in Hunt and Allen and they can't start from scratch with a 4th or 5th string freshman in mid-season. Hunt is levels above those two guys at this point and he is out best chance.

 

[anomander]

At very best I think it would be a stretch to expect either one of the true freshman to come in and do any better, that's not even mentioning not being fair to them. Just to entertain your idea I would have to think Kimble would be the guy IF it were to ever happen. This staff seems to be recruiting dual threat qb's, something Wilson is not. I have heard Kimble has been pretty impressive thus far, but this would be a HUGE step up in competition for the high school talent he played against last year. Plus I believe he ran some sort of wishbone offense. Throwing him to the wolves this early in his career could stunt his progress. We have to stick with one of the 2, or if anything Loeb :bang:

 

[Halfmooncuse]

I know this is a forum and we all like to kick around ideas for the team especially when the team is not performing up to expections. But Holy Cow what does it say about our coaches if we think that our third, fourth or even fifth string QB might be a better answer than the two that have started. If I seriously thought that one of these alternates was the answer then the bigger question is why do we have these individuals as SU coaches. That would be the biggest blunder SU faces.

 

[tep624]

Agree. Don't know why he is doing this. Against Tulane he did a nice job of looking off the safeties then going to the other side of the field. Since then it's like his head has exploded. They could still make things a little easier by playing PTG and Rome at the same time making the defense to account for those two and creating some misdirection since we aren't getting it done with the passing game. I still thought the offense flowed better than when Allen was in against GT.

The more I look at the situation and take a step back, I'm beginning to think that Hunt performed beyond the staffs wildest dreams against Wagner and Tulane vs where they had him pegged going into the season, and they started to challenge him more with the playbook. That combined with the increased quality of opponent heading into the ACC was just too much for him and it's severely hurt his confidence.

I hope vs Wake the staff takes a step back, looks at what worked vs Wagner and a Tulane, and focus on those things. If it means regressing on expanding the number of plays, so be it. They have to put Hunt in a position to succeed vs Wake. He HAS to get his confidence back or we're in for a long season.

 

[TheCusian]

Agree. Don't know why he is doing this. Against Tulane he did a nice job of looking off the safeties then going to the other side of the field. Since then it's like his head has exploded. They could still make things a little easier by playing PTG and Rome at the same time making the defense to account for those two and creating some misdirection since we aren't getting it done with the passing game. I still thought the offense flowed better than when Allen was in against GT.

He def did. Sounds like a mental/confidence thing to me. Which means he can regain it - if that staff can bring him along.

I re-watched the game the other day - and Hunt had a pretty good 1st quarter. Allen was not very good...

 

[sufandu]

Square pegs vs round holes.

Seems we have an offensive system we are hell bent on running despite the fact that the pieces we have would likely fit better. I had this revalation while Tech was pounding us to death with the triple option thinking "hmmmm Hunt + Smith + Gulley or Broyld + Smith + Gulley would probably run the option extremely well".

I suggested the Broyld (but think it'd be fine with Hunt too) triple option idea in a thread last week.

 

[Crusty]

I suggested the Broyld (but think it'd be fine with Hunt too) triple option idea in a thread last week.

That is a decision that requires a total overhaul - it can't be done on the fly. Paul Johnson has been running the triple for years and years and has it down to a science. His players have known nothing but that. SU would have to decide that it was going to be our offense for years to come and recruit to fit it.

 

[rosconey]

hunt is someplace between his first 2 games and his last 3 -
i think he could be a serviceable qb - not sure the oc isnt the reason for his drop in performance -

 

[ImperialOrange]

That is a decision that requires a total overhaul - it can't be done on the fly. Paul Johnson has been running the triple for years and years and has it down to a science. His players have known nothing but that. SU would have to decide that it was going to be our offense for years to come and recruit to fit it.

How about the read option? We have it in the playbook and the only adjustment would be telling the qb to keep it more than 5% of the time. I'm sure Broyld would have no issue with that. Break the huddle and run hunt out wide with ashton under center.

 

[Millhouse]

hunt is someplace between his first 2 games and his last 3 -

so is everyone else who has ever played the position ever

you can't get more extreme. it really is fascinating if you can detach yourself from what it means for the team. which guy is he?

he had a 262 rating against wagner and a 27 rating against clemson

there were only 7 teams with a higher passer rating than that in a game last year (out of 1674 examples). there were only 5 teams with a lower passer rating than that in a game last year

what are the odds that there's any overlap? i don't know but i doubt it

this is completely unheard of. we have nothing to go off here.

 

[rosconey]

so is everyone else who has ever played the position ever

you can't get more extreme. it really is fascinating if you can detach yourself from what it means for the team. which guy is he?

he had a 262 rating against wagner and a 27 rating against clemson

there were only 7 teams with a higher passer rating than that in a game last year (out of 1674 examples). there were only 5 teams with a lower passer rating than that in a game last year

what are the odds that there's any overlap? i don't know but i doubt it

this is completely unheard of. we have nothing to go off here.

kid has played 5 games -
our receivers got open those 2 wins and have played on crutch's the 3 loss's

this is way more about staff than personnel imho

 

[Crusty]

How about the read option? We have it in the playbook and the only adjustment would be telling the qb to keep it more than 5% of the time. I'm sure Broyld would have no issue with that. Break the huddle and run hunt out wide with ashton under center.

Hunt is very effective when he keeps it on the read but remember it is a read - QB only keeps it when the unblocked DE steps toward the RB dive. If the DE doesn't step, the QB has no choice but to hand off (or get killed).

 

[xc84]

Just because you are not happy with Hunt, that does not mean we have a better or even equal current capability sitting the bench. In addition, poor play by the team on offense is not just the fault of the QB. Putting a different QB in does not mean the same receivers will magically start to get open or that the OL will magically block better (see Allen being replaced by Hunt). I can hear it now "What was Shafer thinking putting Kimble in? They see him every day in practice and they should have known better!" (that will be from the same people who want Kimble to start now)

 

[Millhouse]

kid has played 5 games -
our receivers got open those 2 wins and have played on crutch's the 3 loss's

this is way more about staff than personnel imho

the fact that he had such extremes in 5 games makes it that much more unlikely.

 

[sufandu]

That is a decision that requires a total overhaul - it can't be done on the fly. Paul Johnson has been running the triple for years and years and has it down to a science. His players have known nothing but that. SU would have to decide that it was going to be our offense for years to come and recruit to fit it.

Yeah, I know. It was more of a "wouldn't it be interesting" thing than a realistic suggestion.

 

[Crusty]

Yeah, I know. It was more of a "wouldn't it be interesting" thing than a realistic suggestion.

I figured so much.