I am giving this team one more shot

[albanycuse]

I don't resonate with the OP much -- Syracuse sports are my passion, so I'm going to watch no matter what. And unlike the OP, I'm resigned to what we're seeing out there, and past the point where being a fan gets in the way of being objective about the root causes of the issues, and what it will take to get things moving in the right direction.

When we were hit with the sanctions, the compromised depth, missing on a few key recruits, several guys not panning out as we'd hoped, and injuries really harmed us. And these issues in tandem were all exacerbated by the lack of depth brought on by being down several scholarships. BUT I was willing to give JB the benefit of the doubt, given the depth constraints -- knowing that the unprecedently harsh NCAA penalties were doing what they were intended [i.e., harming us]. I figured that once that stuff was behind us, JB would step it up and things would get back on track.

What doesn't sit well with me is that several seasons later, we're still dealing with a team / roster that has several flaws, and some of the problems we're having [i.e., piss poor defense, one dimensional offense, having to play too many players too many minutes, lack of athleticism, inability for key players to create their own shot, too much iso, etc.] are basically due to him being stubborn, and making the least athletic player in our lineup the main focal point of the offensive system. I'm even more frustrated that we have a true lead guard on the team for the first time in 6+ years, and he's being parked on the bench in favor of the two least efficient offensive guards in recent memory.

We're shooting ourselves in the foot, and JB stays the course. He deserves the criticism he's getting from a growing segment of the fanbase, IMO, because sanctions aren't the issue anymore, the problems are primarily self-inflicted.

This team could be so much better with a different lineup. Bring in JG and Buddy off the bench, maybe they will play with some fire and determination when they come in off the bench.

Start Kadary and Woody. Woody showed flashes of being good in limited time and is more athletic than either of Joe and Buddy. Our defense would be better as well.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

people make it sound like they can only root for a team if they are doing well. What are the other 320 teams fans supposed to do?

I could care less where they are ranked.

This huge assumption well just get a new coach because we have a history. It isnt that simple.. Look at Schools like UNC/Kent/Ind/UCLA.. all with much more bball history than us and rolled thru a lot of coaches the last 20-30 yrs with down seasons..

We may find out the JB is the best we can get and it gets far worse than having a team that can compete without being elite.

I don't understand. JB is not 45 years old. He may have been the best we will ever have, but at this stage, he's not even 'good,' he's probably still getting worse, and he absolutely won't be here for very much longer. He is expiring milk, and he's no longer at the point where you just assume he's still okay to drink. He's been at the point where you should be sniffing each time you open the carton, just to make sure.

That said, i can't yet foresee myself not watching. We're about as bad as we can get—i hope—but i'm still obsessive about watching every game, every minute.

 

[OttoMets]

...

We're shooting ourselves in the foot, and JB stays the course. He deserves the criticism he's getting from a growing segment of the fanbase, IMO, because sanctions aren't the issue anymore, the problems are primarily self-inflicted.

Kinda makes one wonder if sanctions or his inflexibility were the difference between a bunch of 23-8 type seasons and the worse results we saw during the end of the last decade.

I always thought there was no reason why that personnel couldn't win more games in the ACC during that stretch. Those weren't great players, but there was talent there. And the whole never matched the sum of the parts.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Kinda makes one wonder if sanctions or his inflexibility were the difference between a bunch of 23-8 type seasons and the worse results we saw during the end of the last decade.

I always thought there was no reason why that personnel couldn't win more games in the ACC during that stretch. Those weren't great players, but there was talent there. And the whole never matched the sum of the parts.

His offensive system does nothing to help the players we have. It is a stale and outdated style. So many other teams/coaches are better at getting their players easier shots than we are.

 

[chugg21]

Kinda makes one wonder if sanctions or his inflexibility were the difference between a bunch of 23-8 type seasons and the worse results we saw during the end of the last decade.

I always thought there was no reason why that personnel couldn't win more games in the ACC during that stretch. Those weren't great players, but there was talent there. And the whole never matched the sum of the parts.

For a long time I thought JB really brought the best out of guys and that we found a bunch of under the radar guys and got a ton out of them. Now I feel like our whole team is mainly composed of under the radar guys except now they play a lot and dont really get much better. It's weird.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't resonate with the OP much -- Syracuse sports are my passion, so I'm going to watch no matter what. And unlike the OP, I'm resigned to what we're seeing out there, and past the point where being a fan gets in the way of being objective about the root causes of the issues, and what it will take to get things moving in the right direction.

When we were hit with the sanctions, the compromised depth, missing on a few key recruits, several guys not panning out as we'd hoped, and injuries really harmed us. And these issues in tandem were all exacerbated by the lack of depth brought on by being down several scholarships. BUT I was willing to give JB the benefit of the doubt, given the depth constraints -- knowing that the unprecedently harsh NCAA penalties were doing what they were intended [i.e., harming us]. I figured that once that stuff was behind us, JB would step it up and things would get back on track.

What doesn't sit well with me is that several seasons later, we're still dealing with a team / roster that has several flaws, and some of the problems we're having [i.e., piss poor defense, one dimensional offense, having to play too many players too many minutes, lack of athleticism, inability for key players to create their own shot, too much iso, etc.] are basically due to him being stubborn, and making the least athletic player in our lineup the main focal point of the offensive system. I'm even more frustrated that we have a true lead guard on the team for the first time in 6+ years, and he's being parked on the bench in favor of the two least efficient offensive guards in recent memory.

We're shooting ourselves in the foot, and JB stays the course. He deserves the criticism he's getting from a growing segment of the fanbase, IMO, because sanctions aren't the issue anymore, the problems are primarily self-inflicted.

The staying the course is why it won’t get better under JB.
I have been beating this drum for months. We completely punted guards for the 2021 recruiting class.
That is negligent and it’s not hard to guess why.
The guard position at Syracuse isn’t stacked and we just punted the class completely.

Then we constantly hear Kadary Richmond is playing a lot when he isn’t.
Who is JB trying to convince?

How the local media don’t ask about this just shows the problem as well.

 

[Alsacs]

For a long time I thought JB really brought the best out of guys and that we found a bunch of under the radar guys and got a ton out of them. Now I feel like our whole team is mainly composed of under the radar guys except now they play a lot and dont really get much better. It's weird.

Players did get better from freshman to sophomore but don’t improve throughout their entire careers.

Our program player development has been poor for a while.
Jeremi Grant got better from Freshman to Sophomore
Josh Pace same
CJ Fair
Trevor Cooney
Kris Joseph
Scoop Jardine
Fab Melo
These guys got better as Sophomores.

The problem is they don’t get even better the longer they stay.

 

[upperdeck]

if you want to say JB is not getting the talent at a high enough level to compete, thats a statement that might have merit.. But I think people get confused with coaching ability and recruiting ability.. There is not one thing wrong with what he is trying to do and I would argue he is getting more out of the parts than people really understand..

What chance to we get a better recruitor in the next go around? 50/50? and what level are people willing to roll that dice?

Give us Center play right now is the main one.. and there were signs in what Sidebe did that were pretty encouraging if he can give us 20 min right now.

If we had a center like the Illinois kid we would be competitive

 

[HOFCeluck]

if you want to say JB is not getting the talent at a high enough level to compete, thats a statement that might have merit.. But I think people get confused with coaching ability and recruiting ability.. There is not one thing wrong with what he is trying to do and I would argue he is getting more out of the parts than people really understand..

What chance to we get a better recruitor in the next go around? 50/50? and what level are people willing to roll that dice?

Give us Center play right now is the main one.. and there were signs in what Sidebe did that were pretty encouraging if he can give us 20 min right now.

If we had a center like the Illinois kid we would be competitive

But kids like Cockburn don’t want to come and play for a coach who’s going to use them as rim protector in the zone, set high screens for unfathomable reasons, and nothing else.

 

[OttoMets]

For a long time I thought JB really brought the best out of guys and that we found a bunch of under the radar guys and got a ton out of them. Now I feel like our whole team is mainly composed of under the radar guys except now they play a lot and dont really get much better. It's weird.

On one hand I hate historic counterfactuals.

On the other, I can't help but think that SU would have been a .500 team from 1993 to 2000 if he coached the same way as he does now.

Back then he had the same problem: post-sanctions, a bunch of under-the-radar recruits, less-than-athletic guys with savvy, and projects. So he played up-tempo with the smaller teams, went zone with the big teams, changed the style to fit personnel.

Now the players come and go but too much of the system stays the same, so a nice enough kid with Jason Cipolla's athleticism gets asked to do the things that Kris Joseph did.

 

[chugg21]

if you want to say JB is not getting the talent at a high enough level to compete, thats a statement that might have merit.. But I think people get confused with coaching ability and recruiting ability.. There is not one thing wrong with what he is trying to do and I would argue he is getting more out of the parts than people really understand..

What chance to we get a better recruitor in the next go around? 50/50? and what level are people willing to roll that dice?

Give us Center play right now is the main one.. and there were signs in what Sidebe did that were pretty encouraging if he can give us 20 min right now.

If we had a center like the Illinois kid we would be competitive

You do realize that the Syracuse basketball program is top 5 every single year in basketball related income. We shouldn't have to hope for anything. Having that level of resources and the product of the last 6+ years is a failure. Hoping that the person in charge of that failure is going to start doing a better job today at 76 years old is ridiculous. And being afraid to move on in fear that the next guy might not be as good is crazy because guess what, sooner or later that move is coming and I'd rather it be tomorrow then after 3 or 4 more years of this product.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You do realize that the Syracuse basketball program is top 5 every single year in basketball related income. We shouldn't have to hope for anything. Having that level of resources and the product of the last 6+ years is a failure. Hoping that the person in charge of that failure is going to start doing a better job today at 76 years old is ridiculous. And being afraid to move on in fear that the next guy might not be as good is crazy because guess what, sooner or later that move is coming and I'd rather it be tomorrow then after 3 or 4 more years of this product.

That's a brutal way to lay it out but I'm having a hard time disagreeing with any of it.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Players did get better from freshman to sophomore but don’t improve throughout their entire careers.

Our program player development has been poor for a while.
Jeremi Grant got better from Freshman to Sophomore
Josh Pace same
CJ Fair
Trevor Cooney
Kris Joseph
Scoop Jardine
Fab Melo
These guys got better as Sophomores.

The problem is they don’t get even better the longer they stay.

Except Rak

 

[GooseMutt]

You do realize that the Syracuse basketball program is top 5 every single year in basketball related income. We shouldn't have to hope for anything. Having that level of resources and the product of the last 6+ years is a failure. Hoping that the person in charge of that failure is going to start doing a better job today at 76 years old is ridiculous. And being afraid to move on in fear that the next guy might not be as good is crazy because guess what, sooner or later that move is coming and I'd rather it be tomorrow then after 3 or 4 more years of this product.

I’m sure our accountants are very happy

 

[Briancuse]

good thing you are not a DUke or MSU or Kent fan.

Duke was a top ten team last year and in the Elite 8 two years ago.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

His offensive system does nothing to help the players we have. It is a stale and outdated style. So many other teams/coaches are better at getting their players easier shots than we are.

'Our players can only remember six plays.'

 

[cusetown1]

The bottom line is are you having fun being a fan? It’s really not fun anymore.

Very true. Sadly, the last and only top 10 highlight I’ve seen for this team on ESPN this year was JB falling out of a chair .

 

[bevosu]

But kids like Cockburn don’t want to come and play for a coach who’s going to use them as rim protector in the zone, set high screens for unfathomable reasons, and nothing else.

Look at Rakeem Christmas' FG attempts his first 3 years...and his FG%. JB wasted at least 2 years of his potential. I never understood how the most efficient scorer on the team was not more of an offensive focal point...until his senior year.

Per Game​

Season	School	Conf	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		SOS
2011-12	Syracuse	Big East	37	35	11.5	1.2	2.0	.573	1.2	2.0	.573	0.0	0.0		0.4	0.8	.571	1.1	1.8	2.9	0.2	0.3	0.8	0.6	1.7	2.8		8.02
2012-13	Syracuse	Big East	40	40	20.9	2.2	4.1	.530	2.2	4.1	.530	0.0	0.0		0.8	1.4	.574	1.8	2.8	4.6	0.2	0.5	1.8	0.9	2.5	5.1		8.57
2013-14	Syracuse	ACC	34	34	23.6	2.2	3.6	.613	2.2	3.6	.613	0.0	0.0		1.3	1.8	.726	2.1	3.0	5.1	0.7	0.5	1.9	0.8	3.1	5.8		7.25
2014-15	Syracuse	ACC	31	31	34.3	6.5	11.9	.552	6.5	11.8	.553	0.0	0.0	.000	4.4	6.2	.712	3.1	6.0	9.1	1.5	0.9	2.5	2.5	3.4	17.5		7.68
Career	Syracuse		142	140	22.0	2.9	5.1	.560	2.9	5.1	.560	0.0	0.0	.000	1.6	2.4	.681	2.0	3.3	5.3	0.6	0.5	1.7	1.1	2.6	7.4		7.88

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Very true. Sadly, the last and only highlight I’ve seen for this team on ESPN this year was JB falling out of a chair .

It's not doing our program any favors to have its two leading shot-takers being slow, not-so-much athletic white guys; not getting any dunks; playing zone; not getting fast breaks (that we can actually convert)... and most of all not being in the top 25 so that we don't have highlights shown anywhere except upstate New York. All of that compounds upon itself. You're only as attractive to recruits as your highlights and ranking. Even having a Dome can't do miracles when so many other factors are against you.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Look at Rakeem Christmas' FG attempts his first 3 years...and his FG%. JB wasted at least 2 years of his potential. I never understood how the most efficient scorer on the team was not more of an offensive focal point...until his senior year.

Per Game​

Season	School	Conf	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		SOS
2011-12	Syracuse	Big East	37	35	11.5	1.2	2.0	.573	1.2	2.0	.573	0.0	0.0		0.4	0.8	.571	1.1	1.8	2.9	0.2	0.3	0.8	0.6	1.7	2.8		8.02
2012-13	Syracuse	Big East	40	40	20.9	2.2	4.1	.530	2.2	4.1	.530	0.0	0.0		0.8	1.4	.574	1.8	2.8	4.6	0.2	0.5	1.8	0.9	2.5	5.1		8.57
2013-14	Syracuse	ACC	34	34	23.6	2.2	3.6	.613	2.2	3.6	.613	0.0	0.0		1.3	1.8	.726	2.1	3.0	5.1	0.7	0.5	1.9	0.8	3.1	5.8		7.25
2014-15	Syracuse	ACC	31	31	34.3	6.5	11.9	.552	6.5	11.8	.553	0.0	0.0	.000	4.4	6.2	.712	3.1	6.0	9.1	1.5	0.9	2.5	2.5	3.4	17.5		7.68
Career	Syracuse		142	140	22.0	2.9	5.1	.560	2.9	5.1	.560	0.0	0.0	.000	1.6	2.4	.681	2.0	3.3	5.3	0.6	0.5	1.7	1.1	2.6	7.4		7.88

I don't remember him being very good the first two years. Wasn't he very much a disappointment for a while?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don't remember him being very good the first two years. Wasn't he very much a disappointment for a while?

Only to some. Many felt he wasn’t being used properly. Others argue he wasn’t ready or wasn’t putting in the time on his own. Truth lies somewhere in the middle, but is another example of how we don’t develop centers quickly enough.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Look at Rakeem Christmas' FG attempts his first 3 years...and his FG%. JB wasted at least 2 years of his potential. I never understood how the most efficient scorer on the team was not more of an offensive focal point...until his senior year.

Per Game​

Season	School	Conf	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		SOS
2011-12	Syracuse	Big East	37	35	11.5	1.2	2.0	.573	1.2	2.0	.573	0.0	0.0		0.4	0.8	.571	1.1	1.8	2.9	0.2	0.3	0.8	0.6	1.7	2.8		8.02
2012-13	Syracuse	Big East	40	40	20.9	2.2	4.1	.530	2.2	4.1	.530	0.0	0.0		0.8	1.4	.574	1.8	2.8	4.6	0.2	0.5	1.8	0.9	2.5	5.1		8.57
2013-14	Syracuse	ACC	34	34	23.6	2.2	3.6	.613	2.2	3.6	.613	0.0	0.0		1.3	1.8	.726	2.1	3.0	5.1	0.7	0.5	1.9	0.8	3.1	5.8		7.25
2014-15	Syracuse	ACC	31	31	34.3	6.5	11.9	.552	6.5	11.8	.553	0.0	0.0	.000	4.4	6.2	.712	3.1	6.0	9.1	1.5	0.9	2.5	2.5	3.4	17.5		7.68
Career	Syracuse		142	140	22.0	2.9	5.1	.560	2.9	5.1	.560	0.0	0.0	.000	1.6	2.4	.681	2.0	3.3	5.3	0.6	0.5	1.7	1.1	2.6	7.4		7.88

Didn’t WANT IT ENOUGH, imo

 

[NineOneSeven]

Look at Rakeem Christmas' FG attempts his first 3 years...and his FG%. JB wasted at least 2 years of his potential. I never understood how the most efficient scorer on the team was not more of an offensive focal point...until his senior year.

Per Game​

Season	School	Conf	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		SOS
2011-12	Syracuse	Big East	37	35	11.5	1.2	2.0	.573	1.2	2.0	.573	0.0	0.0		0.4	0.8	.571	1.1	1.8	2.9	0.2	0.3	0.8	0.6	1.7	2.8		8.02
2012-13	Syracuse	Big East	40	40	20.9	2.2	4.1	.530	2.2	4.1	.530	0.0	0.0		0.8	1.4	.574	1.8	2.8	4.6	0.2	0.5	1.8	0.9	2.5	5.1		8.57
2013-14	Syracuse	ACC	34	34	23.6	2.2	3.6	.613	2.2	3.6	.613	0.0	0.0		1.3	1.8	.726	2.1	3.0	5.1	0.7	0.5	1.9	0.8	3.1	5.8		7.25
2014-15	Syracuse	ACC	31	31	34.3	6.5	11.9	.552	6.5	11.8	.553	0.0	0.0	.000	4.4	6.2	.712	3.1	6.0	9.1	1.5	0.9	2.5	2.5	3.4	17.5		7.68
Career	Syracuse		142	140	22.0	2.9	5.1	.560	2.9	5.1	.560	0.0	0.0	.000	1.6	2.4	.681	2.0	3.3	5.3	0.6	0.5	1.7	1.1	2.6	7.4		7.88

One of my all time favorites. Amazing what he did senior year and he didn’t even get a chance at the ncaas.

And yes, I was beating the drum for a long time about getting him touches long before that.

 

[HOFCeluck]

One of my all time favorites. Amazing what he did senior year and he didn’t even get a chance at the ncaas.

And yes, I was beating the drum for a long time about getting him touches long before that.

It made me legitimately mad that there were people who wanted to cover up the fact that he wasn’t being used enough by throwing the kid under the bus (didn’t work hard enough or whatever.)

 

[bevosu]

I don't remember him being very good the first two years. Wasn't he very much a disappointment for a while?

He had the highest FG shooting percentage of anyone on the team (except for Baye, who played very limited minutes) for 4 straight years, They never fed him the ball until his senior year. I'm guessing that was part of the coach's game plan.