i feel like i'm the only one here... | Syracusefan.com

i feel like i'm the only one here...

Timonen

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who wants nothing to do with uconn or rutgers coming along for the ride. i just don't see the upside re: recruiting, scheduling, etc. honestly, i want our conference schedule to look as different as humanly possible from what it does now. neither of those football programs has accomplished anything in their history and it feels like they pull down the mean of the conference quality/prestige. maybe i sound like an ahole, but this is about self interest and our positioning.
 

rrlbees

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who wants nothing to do with uconn or rutgers coming along for the ride. i just don't see the upside re: recruiting, scheduling, etc. honestly, i want our conference schedule to look as different as humanly possible from what it does now. neither of those football programs has accomplished anything in their history and it feels like they pull down the mean of the conference quality/prestige. maybe i sound like an ahole, but this is about self interest and our positioning.

Because if we don't get them in the ACC there is the possibility they end up in the B10 at which time, everything you are concerned with isn't just about Rutgers and UConn but you can add PSU, Michigan, MSU, Iowa etc to a further extent. It becomes more than just UConn and Rutgers. The only way you don't want them in the ACC is if we know 100% for sure that they end up out of any BCS conference and I just don't see that happening. Like someone said in another thread, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
 

44PRIDE

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Kinda disagree with you Bees. Our ACC deal really puts RU in bad shape.

The B10’s reasoning for considering two Big East football schools in 2010 wasn’t because they admired our football. The plan was to destabilize the Big East conference enough to force ND to join the B10. Obviously they’d take the schools which best benefitted their future TV network plans.

Fast forward to 2011. The ACC did exactly what the B10 wanted to do last year. Notre Dame is facing the collapse of the Big East and now must give serious consideration to joining a conference. Why would the B10 waste a spot on a weak Rutgers program when they can get ND by themselves?

It was widely discussed whether RU could actually deliver NYC. Now with the ACC looking to close in the Northeast with UConn, how much can RU really deliver with their subpar atletics.
 

All4SU

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Because if we don't get them in the ACC there is the possibility they end up in the B10 at which time, everything you are concerned with isn't just about Rutgers and UConn but you can add PSU, Michigan, MSU, Iowa etc to a further extent. It becomes more than just UConn and Rutgers. The only way you don't want them in the ACC is if we know 100% for sure that they end up out of any BCS conference and I just don't see that happening. Like someone said in another thread, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

Exactly. We don't want both Buttgers and UConn in the B10. One of them needs to be ACC for Northern Exposure and balance. The optimum would be one of them plus ND in the ACC. THat locks up the NE for the ACC.
 

rrlbees

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Kinda disagree with you Bees. Our ACC deal really puts RU in bad shape.

The B10’s reasoning for considering two Big East football schools in 2010 wasn’t because they admired our football. The plan was to destabilize the Big East conference enough to force ND to join the B10. Obviously they’d take the schools which best benefitted their future TV network plans.

Fast forward to 2011. The ACC did exactly what the B10 wanted to do last year. Notre Dame is facing the collapse of the Big East and now must give serious consideration to joining a conference. Why would the B10 waste a spot on a weak Rutgers program when they can get ND by themselves?

It was widely discussed whether RU could actually deliver NYC. Now with the ACC looking to close in the Northeast with UConn, how much can RU really deliver with their subpar atletics.

That's not my point at all. I have said all along that nobody really wants Rutgers the school or athletic programs. They want the state. Having Rutgers in the B10 allows the other B10 teams to play in NJ and have a "presence" there which in turn will help their recruiting in NJ. Over the years PSU, Wiscy and Iowa have all been in and out of NJ grabbing recruits. With Rutgers in the B10 that will become a bit easier for those schools and others. It's not about Rutgers, it's about the other B10 teams and their access to NJ and metro NY.
 

chakka3421

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I would love to find out if the ACC is putting an ultimatum on ND right now...finally someone dictating to ND instead of the other way around. Either decide now or your out! Would love it if that is the case. I guess I really just don't like ND just from a ideological standpoint and I would not like our new ACC conference if they let ND have the same thing as they did with the BE.
 

44PRIDE

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I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin... I agree with your point that we don't want RU in the B10 for recruiting reasons. I'm saying I don't think RU brings enough to the table (as a stand alone institution) for consideration by the B10.

the B10 can get ND on their own...with our without Rutgers. Why not use that spot to bring in Missouri or Kansas or Iowa State?

Like you say, B10 schools are already recruiting in Jersey. If RU isn't delivering TV viewers to the conference, what else do they have to offer? I just don't think recruiting New Jersey is enough of a reason to invite Rutgers into the conference.
 

IthacaMatt

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who wants nothing to do with uconn or rutgers coming along for the ride. i just don't see the upside re: recruiting, scheduling, etc. honestly, i want our conference schedule to look as different as humanly possible from what it does now. neither of those football programs has accomplished anything in their history and it feels like they pull down the mean of the conference quality/prestige. maybe i sound like an ahole, but this is about self interest and our positioning.
Count me in with you. They will continue to make inroads in football recruiting directly at our expense. I want them in a lesser league.
 

IthacaMatt

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Because if we don't get them in the ACC there is the possibility they end up in the B10 at which time, everything you are concerned with isn't just about Rutgers and UConn but you can add PSU, Michigan, MSU, Iowa etc to a further extent. It becomes more than just UConn and Rutgers. The only way you don't want them in the ACC is if we know 100% for sure that they end up out of any BCS conference and I just don't see that happening. Like someone said in another thread, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

UConn in the Big 10 is a disaster for their program, and Rutgers will never get out of last or next-to-last place against those teams. I fear UConn much more in the ACC than in the Big 10. Rutgers scares no one, but they are like an annoying little brother (who happens to get more quality recruits than I would like). I want those NJ kids to start coming to Syracuse again, and leaving Rutgers on the curb helps that happen.
 

rrlbees

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UConn in the Big 10 is a disaster for their program, and Rutgers will never get out of last or next-to-last place against those teams. I fear UConn much more in the ACC than in the Big 10. Rutgers scares no one, but they are like an annoying little brother (who happens to get more quality recruits than I would like). I want those NJ kids to start coming to Syracuse again, and leaving Rutgers on the curb helps that happen.

For the 3rd time, it's not about UConn or Rutgers. It's about the other B10 teams, that's my point. Why does everyone keep countering my opinion with UConn and Rutgers?
 

sufan

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who wants nothing to do with uconn or rutgers coming along for the ride. i just don't see the upside re: recruiting, scheduling, etc. honestly, i want our conference schedule to look as different as humanly possible from what it does now. neither of those football programs has accomplished anything in their history and it feels like they pull down the mean of the conference quality/prestige. maybe i sound like an ahole, but this is about self interest and our positioning.

----------------

I really believe the Big 10 decided to include Nebraska and not go east, due to their midwest identity, and desire not to add 2 or more northeast teams to capture that market: that and the belief that ND is the only key to the market.

Long term, as large state schools, RU and UConn are not disappearing. And to maximize the TV market, adding one or both make a lot of sense. The ACC really should add one of these two immediately to preempt the Big 10 and consolidate its standing as a true coastal conference, north to south.

From an SU perspective, one more northeast team would really make the ACC a perfect conference home.
 

dollarbill44

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I would love to find out if the ACC is putting an ultimatum on ND right now...finally someone dictating to ND instead of the other way around. Either decide now or your out! Would love it if that is the case. I guess I really just don't like ND just from a ideological standpoint and I would not like our new ACC conference if they let ND have the same thing as they did with the BE.

I don't know how the ACC can be putting out an ultimatum to ND given that the Big10 would take ND in a heartbeat, therefore the ACC has no leverage against ND.

The only teams I see the ACC being able to dictate to (that they would want) right now are Uconn, Rutgers and WVU (assuming the SEC is not actively pursuing them).

They may be asking ND to come to the table, however.
 

Cuseman78

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That's not my point at all. I have said all along that nobody really wants Rutgers the school or athletic programs. They want to state. Having Rutgers in the B10 allows the other B10 teams to play in NJ and have a "presence" there which in turn will help their recruiting in NJ. Over the years PSU, Wiscy and Iowa have all been in and out of NJ grabbing recruits. With Rutgers in the B10 that will become a bit easier for those schools and others. It's not about Rutgers, it's about the other B10 teams and their access to NJ and metro NY.

Bees is right here. The ONLY reason that Big 10 would go after Rutgers (despite the claims on their Rivals board), is that they would want the NE television market and access to NJ recruiting. 4 or 5 times a year, they would have Big 10 teams playing in the NYC metro area. That could be a very big deal for the Big 10.

The ACC needs to take one more shot at ND and if they say no, they need to grab Rutgers and Uconn (though I would love WVU more than Uconn). This needs to happen fast.
 

IthacaMatt

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For the 3rd time, it's not about UConn or Rutgers. It's about the other B10 teams, that's my point. Why does everyone keep countering my opinion with UConn and Rutgers?
Because Michigan and Ohio State and Iowa and the like are already recruiting NJ heavily. Having Rutgers in their league only changes that a little. Look at the commit lists. Iowa's last star QB was from NJ, I believe. What is more of a concern to me is the local schools, not Iowa or Michigan or any other Big 10 school. I want the other close-by teams to the tri-state area to suck mooseballs and play in the Colonial Conference, so that we are the best choice. I know you think the other Big 10 schools are going to come even harder after Tri-state kids, but they're already doing that.
 

rrlbees

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Because Michigan and Ohio State and Iowa and the like are already recruiting NJ heavily. Having Rutgers in their league only changes that a little. Look at the commit lists. Iowa's last star QB was from NJ, I believe. What is more of a concern to me is the local schools, not Iowa or Michigan or any other Big 10 school. I want the other close-by teams to the tri-state area to suck mooseballs and play in the Colonial Conference, so that we are the best choice. I know you think the other Big 10 schools are going to come even harder after Tri-state kids, but they're already doing that.

I think I already said that also. Go read my posts in this thread. Those schools will now have a GREATER presence in NJ by being able to tell them they will be playing in NJ. Kids will know they will be "coming home" and also that their games will be on TV in NJ or Conn. Every B10 game will be on, not just the occasional national game or when Rutgers by chance plays a B10 team. It will have a FAR greater impact than "a little".
 

Cuseman78

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I think I already said that also. Go read my posts in this thread. Those schools will now have a GREATER presence in NJ by being able to tell them they will be playing in NJ. Kids will know they will be "coming home" and also that their games will be on TV in NJ or Conn. Every B10 game will be on, not just the occasional national game or when Rutgers by chance plays a B10 team. It will have a FAR greater impact than "a little".

And lets not even think about the possibility of Notre Dame dragging along both Rutgers and Maryland to the Big 10 to create an eastern presence of PSU, ND, Maryland, and Rutgers. Yikes. The ACC needs to act fast and wrap up Rutgers and UConn (or WVU - even though I know its far fetched).
 

cuseincincy

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I think I already said that also. Go read my posts in this thread. Those schools will now have a GREATER presence in NJ by being able to tell them they will be playing in NJ. Kids will know they will be "coming home" and also that their games will be on TV in NJ or Conn. Every B10 game will be on, not just the occasional national game or when Rutgers by chance plays a B10 team. It will have a FAR greater impact than "a little".

Gotta disagree this time Bees. I think you and others are over playing the recruiting impact of Big 10 teams playing in NJ. They already recruit there. Its not like they're going to wake up and suddenly think "hey lets focus more on NJ and less on Ohio because we play in NJ every other year now." But if you're right, isn't that offeset now by SU being agble to recruit MD, SC, NC, VA and GA even more now?
 

rrlbees

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And lets not even think about the possibility of Notre Dame dragging along both Rutgers and Maryland to the Big 10 to create an eastern presence of PSU, ND, Maryland, and Rutgers. Yikes. The ACC needs to act fast and wrap up Rutgers and UConn (or WVU - even though I know its far fetched).

Exactly. I think it is obvious the ACC was shooting for the stars with Texas-ND to go along with SU-Pitt. Texas was never viable but they took a shot. Now they are trying for ND alone which will then also include one of Rutgers/UConn. If ND ends up being a no go, I fully expect the ACC to go with UConn and Rutgers. Lets just hope ND doesn't drag their feet on giving the ACC a final final answer. If I were the ACC, you almost have to give ND a deadline.
 

rrlbees

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Gotta disagree this time Bees. I think you and others are over playing the recruiting impact of Big 10 teams playing in NJ. They already recruit there. Its not like they're going to wake up and suddenly think "hey lets focus more on NJ and less on Ohio because we play in NJ every other year now." But if you're right, isn't that offeset now by SU being agble to recruit MD, SC, NC, VA and GA even more now?

NJ is in our 6 hour focus. All schools look at that for accessibility. Plus it is more than just NJ it is also metro NY. While those schools already recruit NJ and metro NY, now they would be able to tell kids who go to say a Michigan, that all of their games will be on TV in NJ for friends and family can watch. It's not like they will now focus more on NJ than Michigan/Ohio, but it will be increased and cumulatively across the whole B10 it will be significant.
 

Chip

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who wants nothing to do with uconn or rutgers coming along for the ride. i just don't see the upside re: recruiting, scheduling, etc. honestly, i want our conference schedule to look as different as humanly possible from what it does now. neither of those football programs has accomplished anything in their history and it feels like they pull down the mean of the conference quality/prestige. maybe i sound like an ahole, but this is about self interest and our positioning.

Don't want them, don't need them.

Neither does the Big 10. Casual NYC fans will watch any combination of Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and probably even Iowa, before they'd want to watch Rutgers or UConn. Does the BTN get some windfall from having NJ or CT? If yes, then why aren't they already there.

SU has a better chance of returning to late 80s and 90s level of play if those 2 are in a lesser conference.
 

Cuseman78

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Exactly. I think it is obvious the ACC was shooting for the stars with Texas-ND to go along with SU-Pitt. Texas was never viable but they took a shot. Now they are trying for ND alone which will then also include one of Rutgers/UConn. If ND ends up being a no go, I fully expect the ACC to go with UConn and Rutgers. Lets just hope ND doesn't drag their feet on giving the ACC a final final answer. If I were the ACC, you almost have to give ND a deadline.

That's exactly how i see it. I'm no longer concerned about being in a non-BCS league (I was until this weekend). However, I do want to see us remain strong in the NE and having the Big 10 be in the door around these parts would be a hindrance to that. Just grab RU and Uconn and be done with it. I'd be thrilled with that conference.
 

Bayside44

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I think I already said that also. Go read my posts in this thread. Those schools will now have a GREATER presence in NJ by being able to tell them they will be playing in NJ. Kids will know they will be "coming home" and also that their games will be on TV in NJ or Conn. Every B10 game will be on, not just the occasional national game or when Rutgers by chance plays a B10 team. It will have a FAR greater impact than "a little".

If you have the Big 10 network every game is already on.
 

SWC75

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I'd rather than West Virginia than Rutgers but I think the Mounties will wind up in the SEC, not the ACC.
 

OrangeZone

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I would like to be a fly on the wall to see who all the 10 schools are/were that were seeking ACC entrance. This thing (nationally) is far from over.
 

rrlbees

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If you have the Big 10 network every game is already on.

Every NJ recruit has the BTN? Didn't know that. I bet any kid that goes to a B10 school will get it though.
 

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