I know a lot of you are portal drunk

[Cusefan0307]

I just dont see guys that are worth a damn sticking around let alone 4 of them a year when other teams are offering money and we're offering a good time and good relationships. It may be better when the covid kids are gone, but it could also drive the prices up more because of a more limited field.

We paid 800k for Lampkin and gave him a car. Our NIL isn’t nearly as bad as some claim. Paying the wrong players this season? Maybe.

 

[two3zone]

They would be proven at that point.

Then what happens when we pull nickels out and Duke writes a blank check for our proven players? There is real money on the table, some kids dont care, but a majority do. Depending on anything for multiple years when player can opt out after every season is incredibly risky, should sting thinking about it happening with our best and only player that was reliable on both sides of the court.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I just dont see guys that are worth a damn sticking around let alone 4 of them a year when other teams are offering money and we're offering a good time and good relationships. It may be better when the covid kids are gone, but it could also drive the prices up more because of a more limited field.

I mean, we would also offer money.

 

[Orangezoo]

We paid 800k for Lampkin and gave him a car. Our NIL isn’t nearly as bad as some claim. Paying the wrong players this season? Maybe.

FWIW - Lampkins total BPR last year was higher than the majority of the 5s ranked higher than him per on3. BPR skews towards winning teams I think but found it interesting based on the wide array of opinions on here.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Then what happens when we pull nickels out and Duke writes a blank check for our proven players? There is real money on the table, some kids dont care, but a majority do. Depending on anything for multiple years when player can opt out after every season is incredibly risky, should sting thinking about it happening with our best and only player that was reliable on both sides of the court.

What happens when we pull nickels out and Duke writes a blank check for the portal players we want?

The problem is actually worse on the portal side because of the timeframe that creates free agent bidding wars and "commitments" meaning less, as we discovered.

Plus, I think everyone is really discounting life factors. Get a guy on campus, get him in a role he's happy with, meet his NIL expectations and then life stuff matters. He'll make friends, get a girlfriend, maybe like his academic program and classes more than he thought, believes in his coaches. For as many guys that portaled there are lots of guys that do stay. It's not just a cash grab.

 

[Orangezoo]

What happens when we pull nickels out and Duke writes a blank check for the portal players we want?

The problem is actually worse on the portal side because of the timeframe that creates free agent bidding wars and "commitments" meaning less, as we discovered.

Plus, I think everyone is really discounting life factors. Get a guy on campus, get him in a role he's happy with, meet his NIL expectations and then life stuff matters. He'll make friends, get a girlfriend, maybe like his academic program and classes more than he thought, believes in his coaches. For as many guys that portaled there are lots of guys that do stay. It's not just a cash grab.

Also play the what if card here- if Judah and Q were different in terms of how they handled themselves they probably stay with an NIL package and then who knows when it comes to Maliq. Instead it was guys leaving because they had to. Taylor just needed to go down a level and then you have a guy who everyone loves on the team including being such great friends with Maliq.. this past class was a miss on a couple levels and it played out as such.

I think like all things it falls into the middle but your perspective has a lot of merits.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What happens when we pull nickels out and Duke writes a blank check for the portal players we want?

The problem is actually worse on the portal side because of the timeframe that creates free agent bidding wars and "commitments" meaning less, as we discovered.

Plus, I think everyone is really discounting life factors. Get a guy on campus, get him in a role he's happy with, meet his NIL expectations and then life stuff matters. He'll make friends, get a girlfriend, maybe like his academic program and classes more than he thought, believes in his coaches. For as many guys that portaled there are lots of guys that do stay. It's not just a cash grab.

The key is offering a bag that's close enough so those other factors do tip things in our favor. It is horseshoes after all.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Also play the what if card here- if Judah and Q were different in terms of how they handled themselves they probably stay with an NIL package and then who knows when it comes to Maliq. Instead it was guys leaving because they had to. Taylor just needed to go down a level and then you have a guy who everyone loves on the team including being such great friends with Maliq.. this past class was a miss on a couple levels and it played out as such.

I think like all things it falls into the middle but your perspective has a lot of merits.

Yeah, if you go through the portal losses -

Hima - potato knees
Carey - needs a lot more development
Benny - blew himself up
Judah - was never planned to have another year given his aspirations
Taylor - tried but didn't perform and didn't fit
Copeland - blew himself up, just not as decisively as Benny
Patterson - needs development, who knows might even have a chance to come back
Maliq - yeah sucks losing him

So 1 out of the 8 are of consequence to next year's roster. Now, that 1 matters, don't get me wrong. They were all good recruits, but other than Benny who never played to his ranking, they're not as highly thought of as the guys it looks like we could bring in this class.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What happens when we pull nickels out and Duke writes a blank check for the portal players we want?

The problem is actually worse on the portal side because of the timeframe that creates free agent bidding wars and "commitments" meaning less, as we discovered.

Plus, I think everyone is really discounting life factors. Get a guy on campus, get him in a role he's happy with, meet his NIL expectations and then life stuff matters. He'll make friends, get a girlfriend, maybe like his academic program and classes more than he thought, believes in his coaches. For as many guys that portaled there are lots of guys that do stay. It's not just a cash grab.

I don’t think Scheyer knows what the fluck he’s doing. Not enough minutes for the guys they signed.

 

[Bayside44]

I don’t think Scheyer knows what the fluck he’s doing. Not enough minutes for the guys they signed.

They don't care about that. Stockpile everyone and JS can figure out who plays.

 

[5OutFred]

SU (finally) fully turned over the roster, but it hurts to think of how Red started in the hole with JB's 'best' class. Bringing in 6 (largely non-prestigious) freshmen in the portal era will go down as one of the more baffling roster decisions in program history and as we saw, set this program back quite a ways. The final nail in the era.

Let's go Red, onward.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

SU (finally) fully turned over the roster, but it hurts to think of how Red started in the hole with JB's 'best' class. Bringing in 6 (largely non-prestigious) freshmen in the portal era will go down as one of the more baffling roster decisions in program history and as we saw, set this program back quite a ways. The final nail in the era.

Let's go Red, onward.

I actually think it was tremendous bringing in the class that we did coming off JB's first career losing season with the shadow of change hanging over the program. I can't believe anybody wanted to play for us and think we were fortunate to get the guys we did.

It not working out doesn't mean that scenario might have still been one of the best realistic options for us.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah, if you go through the portal losses -

Hima - potato knees
Carey - needs a lot more development
Benny - blew himself up
Judah - was never planned to have another year given his aspirations
Taylor - tried but didn't perform and didn't fit
Copeland - blew himself up, just not as decisively as Benny
Patterson - needs development, who knows might even have a chance to come back
Maliq - yeah sucks losing him

So 1 out of the 8 are of consequence to next year's roster. Now, that 1 matters, don't get me wrong. They were all good recruits, but other than Benny who never played to his ranking, they're not as highly thought of as the guys it looks like we could bring in this class.

Then the Additions-

Lampkin- expensive but one of the highest BPRs of the good portal centers- all around game offensively and legit size

Carlos- true PG , higher BPR than his teammate Dubar who is headed to Tenn, fits a need and looks to be the type of player and kid that you can maximize his value. Also comes from being coached by Speedy Claxton whose done a great job with guards in his program and guys moving to major programs and being successful.

Jyare- Depth guy but is a do it all type of player and fills the need for more physicality in the front court. Top player for a top 4 team in a decent mid major conference and was a high major recruit.

All 3 are guys who have consistently improved their contributions and games before coming here.

So the portal additions have plenty of room to outpace their current rankings and can fill key needs.

The frosh and returning guys improvement and health is the linchpin for next year to wrap around a what many consider average portal haul at this point. Another addition or two would be nice as would getting big will back.

 

[dasher]

SU (finally) fully turned over the roster, but it hurts to think of how Red started in the hole with JB's 'best' class. Bringing in 6 (largely non-prestigious) freshmen in the portal era will go down as one of the more baffling roster decisions in program history and as we saw, set this program back quite a ways. The final nail in the era.

Let's go Red, onward.

And not asking Swider back when he would have taken another year.

 

[dasher]

Then the Additions-

Lampkin- expensive but one of the highest BPRs of the good portal centers- all around game offensively and legit size

Carlos- true PG , higher BPR than his teammate Dubar who is headed to Tenn, fits a need and looks to be the type of player and kid that you can maximize his value. Also comes from being coached by Speedy Claxton whose done a great job with guards in his program and guys moving to major programs and being successful.

Jyare- Depth guy but is a do it all type of player and fills the need for more physicality in the front court. Top player for a top 4 team in a decent mid major conference and was a high major recruit.

All 3 are guys who have consistently improved their contributions and games before coming here.

So the portal additions have plenty of room to outpace their current rankings and can fill key needs.

The frosh and returning guys improvement and health is the linchpin for next year to wrap around a what many consider average portal haul at this point. Another addition or two would be nice as would getting big will back.

And according to our coaches, guys that really love basketball. And want to get better.

 

[Orangezoo]

And according to our coaches, guys that really love basketball. And want to get better.

Yep and there is universal truth in that fact equating to success in basically every scenario be it your job, your hobby whatever. It’s fascinating how many out there do things well or satisfactory that they don’t particularly care for.

 

[Orangezoo]

And not asking Swider back when he would have taken another year.

Yeah that was maddening. Cole could have had a huge year as a 5th year.

 

[Red2003]

Yeah, if you go through the portal losses -

Hima - potato knees
Carey - needs a lot more development
Benny - blew himself up
Judah - was never planned to have another year given his aspirations
Taylor - tried but didn't perform and didn't fit
Copeland - blew himself up, just not as decisively as Benny
Patterson - needs development, who knows might even have a chance to come back
Maliq - yeah sucks losing him

So 1 out of the 8 are of consequence to next year's roster. Now, that 1 matters, don't get me wrong. They were all good recruits, but other than Benny who never played to his ranking, they're not as highly thought of as the guys it looks like we could bring in this class.

Awesome post. 100% accurate. 1 out of 8 and yea that one sucks. Truth is that any other team outside of maybe UConn, UNC or Kansas they were gonna snipe Brownwhether he was playing for us or the other 350 other D1 teams.

 

[5OutFred]

It not working out doesn't mean that scenario might have still been one of the best realistic options for us.

I might agree with you had the transfer portal not existed. You don't think a transfer would take immediate playing time in the ACC instead of unproven freshmen? Tremendous?

It was a poor concept and we saw the results.

 

[PeteCalvin]

They don't care about that. Stockpile everyone and JS can figure out who plays.

And then kick the 5-stars he Boeheim’s to the curb at the end of the season. Brown may be in a better position to play big minutes his Sr year after the roster inevitably flips, as it always does for Duke.

 

[longtimefan]

Here's a big problem. 19-year-olds vs 22 or 23-year-olds.

One of the charms of March Madness is when a mid-major (or occasionally a low-major) upsets a "blue blood". The Goliath has a half dozen 4 or 5-stars. The small program has several players who were unrated coming out of high school. How can they compete? Physical maturity and team experience.

Now move it to the present day, when top programs can go out and get guys who were highly-rated 2 or 3 years ago when they came out of high school and now want to move on because they feel they've been recruited over, or they don't get along with the coach, or they're looking for a bigger bag. So now you have 22 year-old blue chips going against kids just arriving from high school.

NC St got it to work last season when their 7 portal players (who got all the minutes) finally figured it out.
A couple of years earlier UNC got to the title game. Their best player was Manek, the portal guy from Okla.

There will be a test case next season--Duke. They have arguably the best recruiting class ever. Of course, they are hedging their bets with 3 veterans--Proctor, and 2 from the portal, Maliq and Gillis.

Bottom line--you can't compete at the highest level relying on recent high school recruits. And by the time these players are ready, there is a near even-money chance they are in the portal.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They don't care about that. Stockpile everyone and JS can figure out who plays.

If they don't play those top 50 freshmen those AAU coaches should direct them elsewhere.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I might agree with you had the transfer portal not existed. You don't think a transfer would take immediate playing time in the ACC instead of unproven freshmen? Tremendous?

It was a poor concept and we saw the results.

No, I don't think good transfers were coming to play for JB at the end of his tenure after the Boeheim Bros years. I also don't believe he was willing to cast a wide enough net to get them out of the portal. JB's portal strategy was heavily reliant on guys he knew from previous recruitments.

 

[Niastri]

And not asking Swider back when he would have taken another year.

Another Benny Williams casualty?

Swider would have been huge as a 5th year senior, and completely solidified that roster. Maybe his leadership would even have made the jackasses sit down and listen.

Having a built 6'9" guy get in your face in practice might have been useful to some of the inmates in that asylum.

 

[Cheriehoop]

And not asking Swider back when he would have taken another year.

Agree to a point but I also wonder how he would have meshed with that large young incoming class. Joe G had a year with them and left just like Jesse, Buddy and Anselm. Playing with that class didn’t appear to be a lure for our older more experienced players.