I know it was a vanilla scrimmage, but can anyone comment

[dasher]

I'll take Mike Williams, Alec Lemon, Sales, and West. You can have all of our "fast" guys from the last 10 years.

I win.

Just how many games did you win with all of those slow guys. If you think having slow wide outs isn't a disadvantage, you haven't been watching college football. It's a big reason why we have sucked for 15 years. And we haven't had fast guys for the last 10 years. That is the point.

 

[Pyle]

Just how many games did you win with all of those slow guys.

Pretty sure it wasn't those guys that were the reason we lost.

 

[dasher]

Pretty sure it wasn't those guys that were the reason we lost.

Well, one thing is for sure. They didn't help us win.

 

[Pyle]

Well, one thing is for sure. They didn't help us win.

For sure? Poppycock. We lost due to lack of depth, lack of experienced QBs, crappy OCs, etc. You're really going to put the blame on 3 guys with NFL talent and another guy who was given a chance and didn't make it? I call shenanigans.

 

[Orangepace]

Just how many games did you win with all of those slow guys. If you think having slow wide outs isn't a disadvantage, you haven't been watching college football. It's a big reason why we have sucked for 15 years. And we haven't had fast guys for the last 10 years. That is the point.

I'd take Alec Lemon over all but one receiver on the offense right now and eat you alive. Speed is important, but if the guy isn't getting the ball in space, it's neutralized. Alec was very close to elite at route running and a lot of the receivers on the team now could use his skill.

 

[Millhouse]

The go to excuse. It was also massive injuries and not having the talent some teams had.

i'm so tired of people thinking bubble screens are effective at other schools because you just throw it to a fast guy who beats his defender

people who only watch us do it don't get it.

teams that do it right spread WRs all over the place. when the alley defenders cheat to the run, you throw the screen. when they stay on the WR, you run. it's never about getting the ball to fast guys, it's just taking 5 yards so easy.

SU used to just throw the screen and hope for the best.

 

[SWC75]

i'm so tired of people thinking bubble screens are effective at other schools because you just throw it to a fast guy who beats his defender

people who only watch us do it don't get it.

teams that do it right spread WRs all over the place. when the alley defenders cheat to the run, you throw the screen. when they stay on the WR, you run. it's never about getting the ball to fast guys, it's just taking 5 yards so easy.

SU used to just throw the screen and hope for the best.

I think we need to do more than "hope for the best".

 

[Millhouse]

I think we need to do more than "hope for the best".

of course. i said "SU used to". i didn't say it was smart

 

[Millhouse]

Speed is mandatory in everything in football. No db's ever play off our guys.

you don't run screens because DBs are giving too much cushion, you run them when LBs or safeties cheat toward the box to stop the run

 

[dasher]

you don't run screens because DBs are giving too much cushion, you run them when LBs or safeties cheat toward the box to stop the run

I wasn't addressing that point. I am simply saying that the lack of speed at the wide out position has hurt us.

 

[dasher]

i'm so tired of people thinking bubble screens are effective at other schools because you just throw it to a fast guy who beats his defender

people who only watch us do it don't get it.

teams that do it right spread WRs all over the place. when the alley defenders cheat to the run, you throw the screen. when they stay on the WR, you run. it's never about getting the ball to fast guys, it's just taking 5 yards so easy.

SU used to just throw the screen and hope for the best.

And I'm tired of people thinking that scheme alone makes the difference. Contrary to what you make think, our coaches aren't always just dumb. We haven't had the horses.

 

[Millhouse]

And I'm tired of people thinking that scheme alone makes the difference. Contrary to what you make think, our coaches aren't always just dumb. We haven't had the horses.

mcdonald and spence got stripped of their duties midseason. (might've happened twice for mcdonald) they had a lot in common here.

they were so bad at calling plays that lack of speed didn't even matter

SU's screen stupidity is very unusual. i have my doubts about lester for other reasons but I assume he's much smarter than mcdonald and spence

 

[qdawgg]

Just how many games did you win with all of those slow guys. If you think having slow wide outs isn't a disadvantage, you haven't been watching college football. It's a big reason why we have sucked for 15 years. And we haven't had fast guys for the last 10 years. That is the point.

It's not a big reason we sucked for 15 years, it's not even a reason we sucked for 15 years. Those guys are the reason why we won any of the games we won. How many of your fast roster guys won games for us?

 

[Pyle]

And I'm tired of people thinking that scheme alone makes the difference. Contrary to what you make think, our coaches aren't always just dumb. We haven't had the horses.

Then it's dumb to run a scheme they can't run. Scheme needs to fit talent and if it doesn't you get McDonalds offense which even he didn't know how to call. Nobody is saying we're competing for the division this year, but last year we ran a scheme that didn't fit the personnel and was being called by a guy who had no flo and just tried to wing it. I'm no pollyanna (anymore) but anyone with a brain can see why when you combine all of that with the injuries we had last year, our offense was horrible. That alone is reason to be a little optimistic. Oh yeah, Hunt going 10-14 with 3 TDs at fan fest is if nothing else, enough to negate his horrible spring game performance and that's another reason to be optimistic.

 

[Millhouse]

Then it's dumb to run a scheme they can't run. Scheme needs to fit talent and if it doesn't you get McDonalds offense which even he didn't know how to call. Nobody is saying we're competing for the division this year, but last year we ran a scheme that didn't fit the personnel and was being called by a guy who had no flo and just tried to wing it. I'm no pollyanna (anymore) but anyone with a brain can see why when you combine all of that with the injuries we had last year, our offense was horrible. That alone is reason to be a little optimistic. Oh yeah, Hunt going 10-14 with 3 TDs at fan fest is if nothing else, enough to negate his horrible spring game performance and that's another reason to be optimistic.

185 lb guys getting snaps at anything even resembling TE might not be a great personnel fit either

 

[dasher]

It's not a big reason we sucked for 15 years, it's not even a reason we sucked for 15 years. Those guys are the reason why we won any of the games we won. How many of your fast roster guys won games for us?

Two different issues. You need quality speed to win. We haven't had it. The guys you like so much, i don't want them going forward. They were the best we had. And our record showed it.

 

[kcsu]

McDonald was terrible. He should have worked his system in overtime to take advantage of the talent we did have. It doesnt have to be all or nothing. As he recruited to his system he would have over time added more and phased out the current. You need to play within the bounds of the talent not force the talent to fit a system that they are ill equiped to run

 

[texascpa]

McDonald was terrible. He should have worked his system in overtime to take advantage of the talent we did have. It doesnt have to be all or nothing. As he recruited to his system he would have over time added more and phased out the current. You need to play within the bounds of the talent not force the talent to fit a system that they are ill equiped to run

Part of McDonald's problem though is he didn't really recruit anyone in his two recruiting terms. All that Florida talent that he was expected to reel in never materialized. Acosta was better out of the gate than he was.

 

[qdawgg]

Two different issues. You need quality speed to win. We haven't had it. The guys you like so much, i don't want them going forward. They were the best we had. And our record showed it.

I agree, I don't want any more WR's on our team that would be drafted into the NFL. I only want elite speed guys like the ones we've had who've had almost zero positive impact on our offense. Give me those guys.

Speed, individually, is overrated. Not "mandatory in everything in football". Speed is one component of a player. There are just as many players with average speed but are elite in other components. Physical size, ability to separate, hip movement, quickness, etc.

None of the WR's I mentioned that you want to on, were on bad or average teams because of their lack of speed. It's ridiculous to even imply their speed had anything to do with our record. Makes it sound like you're just defending your argument just to defend it.

 

[bcubs9497]

Speed? Ask Steve Largent or Jerry Rice about speed.

 

[dasher]

I agree, I don't want any more WR's on our team that would be drafted into the NFL. I only want elite speed guys like the ones we've had who've had almost zero positive impact on our offense. Give me those guys.

Speed, individually, is overrated. Not "mandatory in everything in football". Speed is one component of a player. There are just as many players with average speed but are elite in other components. Physical size, ability to separate, hip movement, quickness, etc.

None of the WR's I mentioned that you want to on, were on bad or average teams because of their lack of speed. It's ridiculous to even imply their speed had anything to do with our record. Makes it sound like you're just defending your argument just to defend it.

You brought those guys up, not me. I admit, I want wide outs that db's have to lay off from. Hitch passes for 6 or 7 yards. I love those. It makes life for our qb's much easier. And elite teams have elite speed. I'll take speed first. Do I want other things to go with it, of course. But without it, you won't win. And we haven't. At least since we had it. And honestly, I can't believe you are on the other side of this.

 

[Don]

I think it always better to have speed but it's better to be a good football player. I would say that if you look at the team in the last few years the best football players and playmakers have been on defense and in a world of football now when the offenses rule because of rule changes I would hope we get to the point where the best football players and playmakers are actually on offense. Nothing against defense cause its still important but the rules just favor offense and you need to take advantage of that.

 

[Pyle]

You brought those guys up, not me. I admit, I want wide outs that db's have to lay off from. Hitch passes for 6 or 7 yards. I love those. It makes life for our qb's much easier. And elite teams have elite speed. I'll take speed first. Do I want other things to go with it, of course. But without it, you won't win. And we haven't. At least since we had it. And honestly, I can't believe you are on the other side of this.

I'm confused, you want elite speed so we can dink and dunk all the way down the field? And you don't want NFL talents?

 

[dasher]

I'm confused, you want elite speed so we can dink and dunk all the way down the field? And you don't want NFL talents?

huh?

 

[Pyle]

huh?

You stated you want elite speed so the DBs have to back off so we can thrown underneath hitch routes all day to make it easier for the QB. Isn't this the Greg Paulus offense?