I think its time for a discussion

nzm136

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Orgeron would have failed here as he did at Ole Miss. The only difference is that Ole Miss gave him the resources he needed. He had to prove himself before he was given another shot at LSU. Chip Kelly was a coach at New Hampshire with no name or resume. SU went with Marrone because of the familiarity and NFL pedigree.
I’d love for a guy to fail here like Eddie did at ‘Ole Miss. He at least left them with real talent. And, he failed because he didn’t have a good offense. He is clearly willing to work with a legit OC (see his Natty championship last year). Failing to give the guy support is on the school.

As for Chip, call him unknown all you want, but the school with Nike money on the other side of the country hired him, so yeah, “unknown,” and not a promising up and coming offensive mind.

And your last comment was irrelevant. Nobody is questioning the DM hire. The question was whether SU can attract coaching talent. 2/3 names that I listed have played in NC games (*I think Chip was the HC when Oregon played*) and the 3rd went bowling 6/7 years in the ACC while at BC.
 

cuse10

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I’d love for a guy to fail here like Eddie did at ‘Ole Miss. he at least left them with real talent. And, he failed because he didn’t have a good offense. He is clearly willing to weird with a legit OC (see his Natty championship last year). Failing to give the guy support is on the school.

As for Chip, call him unknown all you want, but the school with Nike money on the other side of the country hired him, so yeah, “unknown,” and not a promising up and coming OC.

And your last comment was irrelevant. Nobody is questioning the DM hire. The question was whether SU can attract coaching talent. 2/3 names that I listed have played in NC games (*I think Chip was the HC when Oregon played*) and the 3rd went bowling 6/7 years in the ACC while at BC.
The school with Nike money had nothing to lose and Phil Knight was taking a serious interest in the program. Kelly was an unknown. I have a colleague that played for him at New Hampshire. SU went with the safe option. It helps that Nike money helped Oregon sell itself and the school didn't have to cut a check because Knight did it himself.

Mississippi is not Upstate NY. They are rich in talent and send kids to Mississippi State and other schools across the SEC, ACC and Big XII. It's much easier to recruit down there than up here. The best players in New York aren't in Syracuse's backyard. They're four hours South in New York City. That's how bad high school football is in New York. We haven't even mentioned how bad and outdated the facilities were during the Robinson and Marrone era.
 

FrancoPizza

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I dont agree. We now have excellent facilities we play in a great conference. I can name a slew of coaches who would jump at coaching SU.
Yes but are those coaches a good fit for this program? Where are their recruiting ties? Would they bring competent assistants who know how to recruit and develop players? Would their system be a good match for the climate controlled stadium?
 

OrangeXtreme

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Everybody talks about the money they will lose if he is fired but what about when at the games there is only 30,000 cause we suck. Your losing money either way. Get a coach who can recruit and win and then the dome will be full and bam, there your money back. It’s definitely time to move on. Hell we may not even keep some of these recruits anyways cause we are so bad. Do it now.
There's only 35,000 when we don't suck.
 

FrancoPizza

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It's much easier to recruit down there than up here. The best players in New York aren't in Syracuse's backyard. They're four hours South in New York City. That's how bad high school football is in New York.
Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate the high school football coaching failures in upstate. We crank out plenty of Div I lacrosse and hoops athletes. It’s not the kids, it’s the culture that doesn’t promote football. Fire them all and hire southerners.
 

cuse10

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For a BCS program Syracuse has below average facilities. They just use to suck a lot worse. People need to get out more
Right. You don't want it to be an arms race, but to say that we have excellent facilities is a stretch. SU is a couple years removed from the 80 yard practice field in Manley. The Dome just had it's locker room upgraded. It wasn't that long ago when we saw what they looked like after they beat Virginia Tech. It was stuck in the 80s.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Yes because that’s what we all want to see again. Let’s go find another meathead football coach who can put a decent defense on the field but for the life of them cannot recruit or put a lick of offense together. Didn’t we just get rid of one of those?
What, what? So offensive coaches can’t teach their kids not to commit dumb penalties? How has Dino recruited and have we seen a lick of O? Aren’t their other O HCs who can recruit better and have functional Os here? What the fudge does sound football have to do with meathead?
 

HRE Otto IV

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For a BCS program Syracuse has below average facilities. They just use to suck a lot worse. People need to get out more
We have better facilities than some of our peers. Why do people compare us to SEC who we don’t compete against?
 

elimunelson

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As a Pasqualoni apologist, we still are searching for the stability he brought and the consistent recruiting that actually was nfl talent.

everyone on this board who boasted of his demise, been an awesome 15 years huh? He should have been our Beamer.
What is your idea of recruiting? This board says get someone who can recruit but has no clue what it means or everything that goes into it. You can recruit good players but fail to develop. Syracuse has had four stars that never made it to campus.

If they move on from him, they can't jump out the window like Cantor and Gross did. The search needs to be methodical because no one is jumping to coach at SU. Babers failing isn't just an indictment on him. It's an indictment on the hurdles the university faces. It's been said for close to two decades now that it's a school you can't win at. SU will have gone through four coaches since Pasqualoni was dismissed.
Every day that passes the statue for Paul pasqualoni gets bigger imo. Guy was a miracle worker to get McNabb to buy in and lead the team to 3 New Years bowl games.
 

nzm136

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The school with Nike money had nothing to lose and Phil Knight was taking a serious interest in the program. Kelly was an unknown. I have a colleague that played for him at New Hampshire. SU went with the safe option. It helps that Nike money helped Oregon sell itself and the school didn't have to cut a check because Knight did it himself.

Mississippi is not Upstate NY. They are rich in talent and send kids to Mississippi State and other schools across the SEC, ACC and Big XII. It's much easier to recruit down there than up here. The best players in New York aren't in Syracuse's backyard. They're four hours South in New York City. That's how bad high school football is in New York. We haven't even mentioned how bad and outdated the facilities were during the Robinson and Marrone era.
Just to be clear...

“He was named the College Assistant Coach of the Year by the Gridiron Club of Greater Boston following the 2005 season in addition to being selected as "one of college football's hottest coaches" by American Football Monthly.”

That’s the guy you’re calling “unknown.”

And no, the school (on the other side of the country) had a lot to lose. Phil Knight wasn’t investing incredible amounts of money in the program for mediocre results. He very clearly wanted a showcase to exhibit Nike, which is what he bought. You don’t build a showcase by picking a random name of a guy 10 states away out of a hat and hoping the guy is a good coach - no matter who your random (and irrelevant) coworker played for 15 years ago.

Also, I don’t know how I can be more clear when I say DM is irrelevant to whether SU can attract good coaches, unless your point is that he’s a good coach and SU attracted him. In which case, sure, but he’s an odd example, given he’s an alum, so I didn’t list him.

Next, you do realize that Eddie was a position coach at SU back in the day to great success, right? It’s not like he could only recruit at ‘Ole Miss.

“Orgeron won National Recruiter of the Year honors in 2004...”

Like the guy or not, his ability to recruit is legendary. Pretending like he can’t recruit and/or improve the talent level of the teams that he coaches is an incredible stretch.

Lastly, our facilities during the DM/GRob eras don’t help your case. Chip still wanted to come here, and they’ve since improved. If we could get an up-and-coming coach then, why couldn’t we now with better facilities?

*Both quotes are from Chip and Eddie’s respective Wikipedia pages.
 
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ForCuseSake

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As a Pasqualoni apologist, we still are searching for the stability he brought and the consistent recruiting that actually was nfl talent.

everyone on this board who boasted of his demise, been an awesome 15 years huh? He should have been our Beamer.


Every day that passes the statue for Paul pasqualoni gets bigger imo. Guy was a miracle worker to get McNabb to buy in and lead the team to 3 New Years bowl games.
I agree he should’ve been SU’s Beamer.

It would’ve been interesting to see what Coach P might’ve done with DG’s approach to spending.

And how long DG would’ve given P before thinking of bringing in “his guy.”

Too bad Nancy & a few trustees melted down like a game thread during the Champs Sports bowl.
 

nzm136

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What, what? So offensive coaches can’t teach their kids not to commit dumb penalties? How has Dino recruited and have we seen a lick of O? Aren’t their other O HCs who can recruit better and have functional Os here? What the fudge does sound football have to do with meathead?
I think people without a clue as to what they’re talking about call run first offenses “meathead” offenses as a way to feel superior to others.

The truth is there is no right answer from a run first/pass first perspective. The right answer is based on what type of talent your recruiting and facilities can support, and what is innovative/unique from a scheme/approach perspective.
 

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