I tried bracketing the top players per decade from JB's tenure as HC | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

I tried bracketing the top players per decade from JB's tenure as HC

At least Hop got to see his fill of Niagara Falls before he moved to the Pacific NW.
How many guys who were productive and didn't get arrested and had eligibility left have JB pushed out?
Devo got 4 years one of them was a RS. Paul Harris was gone after 3.
 
Lydon over Scoop. Or Triche over Scoop. Scoop was terrific, but he is not top 8.
David Johnson should be listed higher.
Raf Addison should somehow appear.

I think the 70s could have its own listing.

Tough to have a list without Addison, I agree.

I can't think of a justification for Triche over Scoop. More starts, more wins? Scoop's numbers look better, especially on a per-minute basis, and I believe he played a more important position at a higher level.

Danny Schayes had a 17 year career in the NBA. He was a first round pick in the NBA draft. Something Rosey Bouie didn't have on his resume.

Of course it depends heavily on what we mean by "top player from Boeheim's tenure." If we read that literally, gotta go with the guy who started every game for four years and scored over 50% more points. (Heck, if Boeheim's word is gospel, Bouie must be better by virtue of the fact that Boeheim started him over Schayes for three years.)
 
Inch for inch, Harris was one of the best rebounders to ever come through the program. My kingdom for someone who could have hit the glass like that at the 2 or 3 on this season's team.

And a better handle than Pace, and a better shooter, and generally a better all-around skilled player.

That said, it's difficult to argue against a guy who shot .571, mostly as an off-guard, as a senior who couldn't really shoot. What Harris had in ability, Pace made up for in discretion. If starting a team, I'd take Harris. For this list, I'm cool with Pace.
 
Tough to have a list without Addison, I agree.

I can't think of a justification for Triche over Scoop. More starts, more wins? Scoop's numbers look better, especially on a per-minute basis, and I believe he played a more important position at a higher level.



Of course it depends heavily on what we mean by "top player from Boeheim's tenure." If we read that literally, gotta go with the guy who started every game for four years and scored over 50% more points. (Heck, if Boeheim's word is gospel, Bouie must be better by virtue of the fact that Boeheim started him over Schayes for three years.)

I can see it. It's splitting hairs, but Triche was the 2nd leading scorer on a 30 win FF team that was probably our best defensive team ever.

I think the problem with some of our most recent success is we have had a lot of really good players, but nobody who really stands out as being a DC or Melo type.
 
I can see it. It's splitting hairs, but Triche was the 2nd leading scorer on a 30 win FF team that was probably our best defensive team ever.

I think the problem with some of our most recent success is we have had a lot of really good players, but nobody who really stands out as being a DC or Melo type.

This makes the recent ranking too difficult for me, I'd concede that. Triche's team success as a senior was nice, but Scoop had similar per-minute offensive numbers while also running the point. I don't think he's always gotten the credit he deserved, but it seems to me that he could do everything that Triche could off the ball while also playing the more difficult position of point guard very well. Their offensive numbers are awfully similar, though, your splitting hairs comment nails it.
 
I like Triche and would love to have players like him every year. I just think Scoop his last 2 years was better than Triche ever was.
Triche had a more consistent floor but not the high ceiling Scoop had when he was an upperclassman.

I will say Triche's ceiling was the 2013 game at Louisville. Go watch the first half of that game when Triche single handily kept us in the that game and tied at the half. It was a 36-36 if I remember without looking. Syracuse won on the MCW steal dunk. If that high ceiling Triche came out more I would have had him higher than Scoop.

However I remember Scoop against Wisconsin in 2012 I don't see Triche doing that ever.
Slightly I take Scoop over Triche.
 
And a better handle than Pace, and a better shooter, and generally a better all-around skilled player.

That said, it's difficult to argue against a guy who shot .571, mostly as an off-guard, as a senior who couldn't really shoot. What Harris had in ability, Pace made up for in discretion. If starting a team, I'd take Harris. For this list, I'm cool with Pace.
I can understand the support for Pace. He played an important role on the championship team when called upon and then put up very solid numbers in his last two years.

For me though, this was about performance on the the court and by that measure Harris was a rare talent. I realize many dislike him for the off court drama, but several of the guys who are routinely fawned over on this board were anything but exemplary citizens while here.
 
I can understand the support for Pace. He played an important role on the championship team when called upon and then put up very solid numbers in his last two years.

For me though, this was about performance on the the court and by that measure Harris was a rare talent. I realize many dislike him for the off court drama, but several of the guys who are routinely fawned over on this board were anything but exemplary citizens while here.

Sounds good to me. I've said it before (and I'm well aware of Boeheim's bias and don't fault him for it), but others on the staff had more problems with certain of Harris's teammates than they did with him. I was more sympathetic to his situation - he was a round peg in a square hole, but he worked hard and pretty much did everything that was asked of him while playing a bunch of different positions. That guy was a good player; it's a shame he didn't come around at a more stable time. That kind of a talent on a team with veteran leadership would have been something to see.
 
I like Triche and would love to have players like him every year. I just think Scoop his last 2 years was better than Triche ever was.
Triche had a more consistent floor but not the high ceiling Scoop had when he was an upperclassman.

I will say Triche's ceiling was the 2013 game at Louisville. Go watch the first half of that game when Triche single handily kept us in the that game and tied at the half. It was a 36-36 if I remember without looking. Syracuse won on the MCW steal dunk. If that high ceiling Triche came out more I would have had him higher than Scoop.

However I remember Scoop against Wisconsin in 2012 I don't see Triche doing that ever.
Slightly I take Scoop over Triche.

What did Scoop do against Wisconsin in 2012? I looked at the box score and literally everyone played well. Dion/Triche/Scoop/CJ all scored double figures as we shot 55%. Not debating. Just trying to remember. I remember that game as a game where both teams couldn't miss and it was frustrating to watch as we were the more talented team.
 
Would put triche over Scoop. Scoop would be next in line though.
 
What did Scoop do against Wisconsin in 2012? I looked at the box score and literally everyone played well. Dion/Triche/Scoop/CJ all scored double figures as we shot 55%. Not debating. Just trying to remember. I remember that game as a game where both teams couldn't miss and it was frustrating to watch as we were the more talented team.
Wisconsin went on a gorge of three 3 points in a row. Scoop set Waiters up for an and 1 and made a 3 to stem the momentum when we went down 4.
 
You know what, Scoop deserves the 10 spot if not for bringing us back in that Pitt game alone. That saved us from unbearable embarrassment. One of the most clutch 1 man performances I've seen in my time, though we didn't win the game.
 
Sounds good to me. I've said it before (and I'm well aware of Boeheim's bias and don't fault him for it), but others on the staff had more problems with certain of Harris's teammates than they did with him. I was more sympathetic to his situation - he was a round peg in a square hole, but he worked hard and pretty much did everything that was asked of him while playing a bunch of different positions. That guy was a good player; it's a shame he didn't come around at a more stable time. That kind of a talent on a team with veteran leadership would have been something to see.
Yes, he was an unusual talent (essentially a power forward in a shooting guard's body) and might have flourished with a different cast around him or in another program entirely.
 
Wisconsin went on a gorge of three 3 points in a row. Scoop set Waiters up for an and 1 and made a 3 to stem the momentum when we went down 4.

Ahh I faintly recall. Wisconsin could not miss in that second half. Honestly I don't remember much about that tournament. I think I've blocked it out after we were hosed against OSU/Fab debacle. I remember last year and 2013 a lot more.
 
I like Triche I just got no moments from outside that 2013 UL game and most SU fans would more remember MCW steal dunk from that game.

Triche played like a first team all America the first half of that game and Triche played his best against Louisville during his career.

Scoop had games he took over. He just was more trick or treat.
 
I would say the Indiana game where MCW/Triche bullied Jordan Hulls and Yogi Ferrell was probably a top moment. As was his play in the Georgetown game the 2nd half of the last BET

I think Scoop had some really good moments as well. It really is splitting hairs. Just goes to show you that teams may be better off with 4 year guards than one and dones.
 
You know what, Scoop deserves the 10 spot if not for bringing us back in that Pitt game alone. That saved us from unbearable embarrassment. One of the most clutch 1 man performances I've seen in my time, though we didn't win the game.

I'd ordinarily say this is an overrated skill, but Scoop was the one player on some gun-shy teams who was willing to take (and usually make) a shot when no one else would step up. He got dumped on, unfairly in my opinion, for everything from his alley-oops to that shot selection. But I can think of a number of times -- that ridiculous Pitt game (was that 17-0 in the wrong direction?), UConn in the Big East, the start of the Butler game, Villanova when we fell behind early -- when our offense was tentative and he started a run or clawed back a deficit with his shooting.

Also, it's funny to me that in his "bad" year, he put up this line as our starting point guard:
upload_2017-4-14_10-6-36.png


He had a good season, everything we could expect from someone in his position. He had two talented perimeter guys who were expected to be 16-18/game scorers but didn't; inconsistent play from Waiters, who earned a spot on the bench; musical chairs at center; and a senior big man who could only use one hand. Scoop did strong work, but the surrounding talent wasn't there yet. In hindsight, we'd kill to have that line from our point guard every year since.
 
Yes, he was an unusual talent (essentially a power forward in a shooting guard's body) and might have flourished with a different cast around him or in another program entirely.

At Pittsburgh, he would've killed us. Just imagine. Like every other player Howland and Dixon recruited, only actually with basketball talent.
 
I'd ordinarily say this is an overrated skill, but Scoop was the one player on some gun-shy teams who was willing to take (and usually make) a shot when no one else would step up. He got dumped on, unfairly in my opinion, for everything from his alley-oops to that shot selection. But I can think of a number of times -- that ridiculous Pitt game (was that 17-0 in the wrong direction?), UConn in the Big East, the start of the Butler game, Villanova when we fell behind early -- when our offense was tentative and he started a run or clawed back a deficit with his shooting.

Also, it's funny to me that in his "bad" year, he put up this line as our starting point guard:
View attachment 95312

He had a good season, everything we could expect from someone in his position. He had two talented perimeter guys who were expected to be 16-18/game scorers but didn't; inconsistent play from Waiters, who earned a spot on the bench; musical chairs at center; and a senior big man who could only use one hand. Scoop did strong work, but the surrounding talent wasn't there yet. In hindsight, we'd kill to have that line from our point guard every year since.

That team was frustrating. We won 28 games I recall, but it included the Seton Hall debacle where Scoop played so bad people thought he was shaving points and he unfairly(bad call) was called for the backcourt against Marquette. That team could have made the FF. It really stinks we were put up against Marquette.
 
That team was frustrating. We won 28 games I recall, but it included the Seton Hall debacle where Scoop played so bad people thought he was shaving points and he unfairly(bad call) was called for the backcourt against Marquette. That team could have made the FF. It really stinks we were put up against Marquette.

I think the East opened up after that game, too. I already was booked to go to Newark but bailed and spent the weekend in the city instead, didn't watch any hoops. But I think North Carolina went down early.

Totally inexcusable to have a league team in our subregional. Also ridiculous to have that ~9:30 p.m. start on Sunday night, the first year the NCAA really started to monkey with start times for the new TV deal. And the bad call. Just so frustrating all around.

That Hall game was nuts: Seton Hall vs. Syracuse Box Score, January 25, 2011 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com. Total defensive breakdown. Rough shooting night for Rick Jackson; I don't remember that, but maybe it was another night when he got pushed out to 12 feet and couldn't do anything with the ball (like Pitt, Nova, and Marquette).
 
I think the East opened up after that game, too. I already was booked to go to Newark but bailed and spent the weekend in the city instead, didn't watch any hoops. But I think North Carolina went down early.

Totally inexcusable to have a league team in our subregional. Also ridiculous to have that ~9:30 p.m. start on Sunday night, the first year the NCAA really started to monkey with start times for the new TV deal. And the bad call. Just so frustrating all around.

That Hall game was nuts: Seton Hall vs. Syracuse Box Score, January 25, 2011 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com. Total defensive breakdown. Rough shooting night for Rick Jackson; I don't remember that, but maybe it was another night when he got pushed out to 12 feet and couldn't do anything with the ball (like Pitt, Nova, and Marquette).

That game was like the St. Johns game at the dome this year. We just quit on defense in the 2nd half. I remember leaving pretty early. I'm surprised the margin was only 22. In my head it was like 35.
 
Would put triche over Scoop. Scoop would be next in line though.
Triche arrived as a fully formed all-around player, showed up every night for four years, played through injury, and found a way to contribute even when struggling with his shot. Give me one or two of those guys on every team and I'd be thrilled.
 
The majority of your career counted as the decade I put you in.

1970s-80s bracket
1. Pearl Washington
2. Derrick Coleman
3. Sherman Douglas
4. Billy Owens
5. Roosevelt Bouie
6. Rony Seikaly
7. Stephen Thompson
8. Louis Orr

1990s bracket
1. John Wallace
2. Laurence Moten
3. Etan Thomas
4. Jason Hart
5. Adrian Autry
6. Otis Hill
7. Todd Burgan
8. Dave Johnson(originally Mike Hopkins)

2000s
1 . Carmelo Anthony
2. Hakim Warrick
3. Gerry McNamara
4. Jonny Flynn
5. Preston Shumpert
6. Eric Devendorf
7. Demetris Nichols(I put u before)
8. Josh Pace

2010s
1. Dion Waiters
2. Michael Carter-Williams
3. Wes Johnson
4. CJ Fair
5. Michael Gbinije
6. Arinze Onuaku
7. Rick Jackson
8. Scoop Jardine

Are there any obvious misses?

I would split the 70s and 80s into two groups, because we were a different program in those decades thanks to the rise of ESPN and the Big East.

For the 70s, I would not limit it to just JB's years. I would propose this list:

1. Roosevelt Bouie
2. Greg Kohls
3. Louie Orr
4. Rudy Hackett
5. Dennis DuVal
6. Jimmy Lee
7. Bill Smith
8. Jimmy Williams
9. Marty Byrnes
10. Marty Headd
 
How does it work if they started at the end of one decade and finished in the next. Which one do they count for?

If a guy spans 2 decades, it usually makes sense to say which decade he played more in, and if that's a wash, which decade he was the better player (which would usually be the later decade, say in the case of Danny Schayes, who never played much until 80-81, his senior year, so I would put him in the 80s, personally.)
 
I think the East opened up after that game, too. I already was booked to go to Newark but bailed and spent the weekend in the city instead, didn't watch any hoops. But I think North Carolina went down early.

Totally inexcusable to have a league team in our subregional. Also ridiculous to have that ~9:30 p.m. start on Sunday night, the first year the NCAA really started to monkey with start times for the new TV deal. And the bad call. Just so frustrating all around.

That Hall game was nuts: Seton Hall vs. Syracuse Box Score, January 25, 2011 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com. Total defensive breakdown. Rough shooting night for Rick Jackson; I don't remember that, but maybe it was another night when he got pushed out to 12 feet and couldn't do anything with the ball (like Pitt, Nova, and Marquette).

I was at my manager's house the night of the Seton Hall game for a team get together. It was essentially mandatory because it was pretty rare for us to all be together in the same city or else I would have bailed. But they had the Kansas game on the tv and I was watching the scores scroll by and saw our score and just tried to conceal my rage for the rest of the night.
 

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