If you were Battle’s advisor | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

If you were Battle’s advisor

Just stay and get stronger. It’s not that hard.
And refine your shooting mechanics, because you apparently can't do that anywhere else. And showcase yourself in important college basketball games for all those talent evaluators who haven't heard of you.
 
He's not an NBA player in my mind. Has the funny hitch in his jumper and has trouble breaking down guards off the dribble.

That said he should go. I think his style could be detrimental to the team concept next season and we'll roll with Howard, Washington, Hughes and Carey.

These are both good points. I'd welcome him back with open arms but it's not a crushing blow if we lose him (though I'm not sure what the timetable is on Washington's return. I'd guess he'd be a candidate for a medical redshirt if that takes a full 12 months or maybe even 12-15). But the biggest point is I'm just not sure he's an NBA guy.
 
Malachi's issue is he keeps getting hurt. Better to get hurt in the NBA than college.


John Feinstein had a throwaway line on this, so not sure the accuracy...the rate on which some of the early guys get hurt. Cleary there are some guys who are NBA ready at 20, nothing wrong there. We've had a few which leads to the notion of getting stronger before a guy attempts to compete with grown 28-32 year old men.
 
And yet Smart hurt his draft stock by staying. He was a projected top five pick in 2013. Your Malachi analogy falls a little short.
He might have hurt his draft stock but he improved his game which made him more successful in the NBA which is why he is making good money.
 
For every Mikal Bridges there’s a Ivan Rabb. Or Marcus Smart. Or Chris Thomas. Or Terrence Morris. Or (soon to be) Miles Bridges.

Syracuse fans romanticize the college experience and playing in the Dome and act like relegation to the G League is a fate worse than death. I don’t think draft prospects see it that way.

No, they don't see it that way. That's the point -- these guys are told they are michael jordan for most of their lives. What we're debating is what the best path is. And, to be clear, if kids want to go, then go. It's cool.

But do people stop and do the math for the guys that aren't NBA-level players (and I absolutely feel there is a solid chance Battle is not an nba level player this year or next or the following -- I'm not really debating draft position)?

So let's say he gets drafted 40th. If he wants to go, cool. But people love saying 'YES!! Pay check!!!!' Well, that contract last year was three years at league minimum with two years guaranteed. So the two-year portion of that is ~$2.1M ($837K for rookie year, $1.3 i think for year 2). Pretty sweet. But don't forget that taxes at 35% make that about $1.4 over two years and another $200K for the agent make it $1.2M.

There are other expenses but whatever, we're looking at an AAV of $550 - $600K a year. Again, pretty freaking awesome. But, don't forget that these guys aren't grabbing a studio apartment and eating canned tuna every night while driving an '08 malibu. So they are spending a big chunk of that coin to live the life the guys who are making $15M around them are making. That matters.

If they turn into guys that can hang in the league for 5+ years awesome. BUT, if at the end of that contract, they end up in the G League for year three, the salary is either $19,500 or $26,000 for six months. Ouch. That's an extremely harsh dose of reality. So maybe then you make the move to europe or asia or maybe you give it a few years to try and make it to the nba. But let's remember, the list of guys who went to the G League and wound up as NBA regulars is extremely limited (Clint Capella is the only big name but he was from switzerland and they mostly used it as a transition tool for a guy who can run like a gazelle and jump out of the gym with good hands at 6'10".

Conversely -- if you stay and college and let's say you never get drafted. Europe is still an opportunity as is the G League. You didn't play for nothing, at least not for a kid like battle who actually goes to class. Cuse tuition is $43K. College graduates earn, on average, $23K more per year than their high school grad counterparts. And don't forget -- if Battle actually does get better and gets drafted higher (unlikely, but the possibility exists) or, gets drafted lower but is more prepared and mature -- it can still work out in his favor.

The point is -- you want to chase your dreams? Cool. You make it? Awesome. You get drafted -- it's an awfully nice nest egg. But the reality is you may be done with this whole experiment by 23 or 24 and there's a lot to figure out. I don't know -- I think there is more than one way to go about this.
 
He was their 4th leading scorer and had the 7th highest usage rate on the team and you're trying to tell me that's not a role player. Either need to think or learn prior to responding. You're essentially saying Marek is a star and not a role player.

If you think his stats last year were one of a role player, so be it, that's your opinion. I'm not saying he's a star, I never said that, those are your words, I'm just giving you his stats that, in my opinion, state otherwise and more reflective of a key contributor. If Marek was doing more of what he's been doing the past few games, yes, I'd say then he is more than just a role player, and a key contributor as in the Wake ACC Tourney game and TCU game.
 
No, they don't see it that way. That's the point -- these guys are told they are michael jordan for most of their lives. What we're debating is what the best path is. And, to be clear, if kids want to go, then go. It's cool.

But do people stop and do the math for the guys that aren't NBA-level players (and I absolutely feel there is a solid chance Battle is not an nba level player this year or next or the following -- I'm not really debating draft position)?

So let's say he gets drafted 40th. If he wants to go, cool. But people love saying 'YES!! Pay check!!!!' Well, that contract last year was three years at league minimum with two years guaranteed. So the two-year portion of that is ~$2.1M ($837K for rookie year, $1.3 i think for year 2). Pretty sweet. But don't forget that taxes at 35% make that about $1.4 over two years and another $200K for the agent make it $1.2M.

There are other expenses but whatever, we're looking at an AAV of $550 - $600K a year. Again, pretty freaking awesome. But, don't forget that these guys aren't grabbing a studio apartment and eating canned tuna every night while driving an '08 malibu. So they are spending a big chunk of that coin to live the life the guys who are making $15M around them are making. That matters.

If they turn into guys that can hang in the league for 5+ years awesome. BUT, if at the end of that contract, they end up in the G League for year three, the salary is either $19,500 or $26,000 for six months. Ouch. That's an extremely harsh dose of reality. So maybe then you make the move to europe or asia or maybe you give it a few years to try and make it to the nba. But let's remember, the list of guys who went to the G League and wound up as NBA regulars is extremely limited (Clint Capella is the only big name but he was from switzerland and they mostly used it as a transition tool for a guy who can run like a gazelle and jump out of the gym with good hands at 6'10".

Conversely -- if you stay and college and let's say you never get drafted. Europe is still an opportunity as is the G League. You didn't play for nothing, at least not for a kid like battle who actually goes to class. Cuse tuition is $43K. College graduates earn, on average, $23K more per year than their high school grad counterparts. And don't forget -- if Battle actually does get better and gets drafted higher (unlikely, but the possibility exists) or, gets drafted lower but is more prepared and mature -- it can still work out in his favor.

The point is -- you want to chase your dreams? Cool. You make it? Awesome. You get drafted -- it's an awfully nice nest egg. But the reality is you may be done with this whole experiment by 23 or 24 and there's a lot to figure out. I don't know -- I think there is more than one way to go about this.

It's not always easy to know which guys are NBA-level players. There are a few each year, for sure. There are also 60 draft picks.
 
I suppose the first thing I'd ask him is what does he want to do? I don't know his major and if that is something he'd want to pursue. If the NBA is what he wants then I'd leave. If winning a championship (if they don't this year!) then next years team will be loaded.

As for the NBA, Battle is a very good free throw shooter and imo that will translate into being a better overall shooter. I don't know if he has enough left in him to make the drive to the basket there but he's reasonably strong to his right. Curious to see if he can pass better when he goes to the basket once he has someone who can catch the ball and put it in the basket. He needs to be a lot more consistent on his jump shot, way too many 4-16's in his boxscores. That said, the added attention from teams with the double's and 1 1/2 guys covering may have helped him quite a bit for the next level.
 
Would we have better luck keeping kids if they had to decide at the end of spring semester? I'm a permanent Syracuse resident and want out by this time every year. And I'm not lugging books through a blizzard on top of a hill every day.
 
Best thread of the year. Every year.
I think there's a bit of a change in the way this debate is being viewed.

So many one and done or two and done guys are washing out of the league quickly, that's it's becoming clear this is not such a simple math problem like we always make it out to be.

As was pointed out above, most of these guys get a two year contract at excellent money, then travel the world for much less for the rest of their career.

What is battles most likely salary in the last year of his career? If it's multi millions in the NBA, of course you leave now. If it's sub 100k in the g league or Asia or wherever, I don't think it's so simple.

The question for battle is, which contract does he think he'll have that last year.
 
I think there's a bit of a change in the way this debate is being viewed.

So many one and done or two and done guys are washing out of the league quickly, that's it's becoming clear this is not such a simple math problem like we always make it out to be.

As was pointed out above, most of these guys get a two year contract at excellent money, then travel the world for much less for the rest of their career.

What is battles most likely salary in the last year of his career? If it's multi millions in the NBA, of course you leave now. If it's sub 100k in the g league or Asia or wherever, I don't think it's so simple.

The question for battle is, which contract does he think he'll have that last year.

I guess my biggest issue is with the assumption, stated or not, that coming back to school is a lock to increase your draft stock. There are plenty of examples where that doesn't happen.
 
No, they don't see it that way. That's the point -- these guys are told they are michael jordan for most of their lives. What we're debating is what the best path is. And, to be clear, if kids want to go, then go. It's cool.

But do people stop and do the math for the guys that aren't NBA-level players (and I absolutely feel there is a solid chance Battle is not an nba level player this year or next or the following -- I'm not really debating draft position)?

So let's say he gets drafted 40th. If he wants to go, cool. But people love saying 'YES!! Pay check!!!!' Well, that contract last year was three years at league minimum with two years guaranteed. So the two-year portion of that is ~$2.1M ($837K for rookie year, $1.3 i think for year 2). Pretty sweet. But don't forget that taxes at 35% make that about $1.4 over two years and another $200K for the agent make it $1.2M.

There are other expenses but whatever, we're looking at an AAV of $550 - $600K a year. Again, pretty freaking awesome. But, don't forget that these guys aren't grabbing a studio apartment and eating canned tuna every night while driving an '08 malibu. So they are spending a big chunk of that coin to live the life the guys who are making $15M around them are making. That matters.

If they turn into guys that can hang in the league for 5+ years awesome. BUT, if at the end of that contract, they end up in the G League for year three, the salary is either $19,500 or $26,000 for six months. Ouch. That's an extremely harsh dose of reality. So maybe then you make the move to europe or asia or maybe you give it a few years to try and make it to the nba. But let's remember, the list of guys who went to the G League and wound up as NBA regulars is extremely limited (Clint Capella is the only big name but he was from switzerland and they mostly used it as a transition tool for a guy who can run like a gazelle and jump out of the gym with good hands at 6'10".

Conversely -- if you stay and college and let's say you never get drafted. Europe is still an opportunity as is the G League. You didn't play for nothing, at least not for a kid like battle who actually goes to class. Cuse tuition is $43K. College graduates earn, on average, $23K more per year than their high school grad counterparts. And don't forget -- if Battle actually does get better and gets drafted higher (unlikely, but the possibility exists) or, gets drafted lower but is more prepared and mature -- it can still work out in his favor.

The point is -- you want to chase your dreams? Cool. You make it? Awesome. You get drafted -- it's an awfully nice nest egg. But the reality is you may be done with this whole experiment by 23 or 24 and there's a lot to figure out. I don't know -- I think there is more than one way to go about this.

Can you now crunch the numbers for Josh Pace's salary as Assistant women's basketball coach?

I say this every year...This talk of other people's money is cringe worthy.
 
Can you now crunch the numbers for Josh Pace's salary as Assistant women's basketball coach?

I say this every year...This talk of other people's money is cringe worthy.


Why? It's all public record and the whole sport is about money anyway.
 
I guess my biggest issue is with the assumption, stated or not, that coming back to school is a lock to increase your draft stock. There are plenty of examples where that doesn't happen.

I absolutely don’t believe that’s guarantee. Not even close. At least for my part.
 
Agreed. So let's break down GMacs current salary and speculate if where he's living is up to par.


What does that have to do with attempting to play pro basketball?
 
Can you now crunch the numbers for Josh Pace's salary as Assistant women's basketball coach?

I say this every year...This talk of other people's money is cringe worthy.

I’m not sure how many times I can say this: if you want to go — GO! I’m am 100% cool with it.

I also don’t feel battle needs to listen to my opinion.

I’m merely discussing what I think is an interesting question for a bunch of guys we’ve had lately.

Now if you want to hear me talk about other peoples money, let’s discuss donating money to universities. I can go on and on about that.

And by the way, one data point. Nice counter-argument.
 
What does that have to do with attempting to play pro basketball?

Are we discussing playing pro basketball? I thought we were discussing what people would be getting paid and what type of car they would be driving?

What does theoretical salaries and theoretical cars they own have to do with if someone goes early or not?

If someone wants to get paid playing basketball, they should go. That's the argument. That's it.

Crunching numbers on people's made up salaries and how/where they are living is ridiculous.
 
And yet Smart hurt his draft stock by staying. He was a projected top five pick in 2013. Your Malachi analogy falls a little short.

Projecting as "top 5" and then getting taken sixth is pretty much the same thing. Hard to say you hurt your draft stock by going sixth. The draft order is never that precise a science, because of the dependencies of who gets picked before you, and what different teams' need are.
 
Projecting as "top 5" and then getting taken sixth is pretty much the same thing. Hard to say you hurt your draft stock by going sixth. The draft order is never that precise a science, because of the dependencies of who gets picked before you, and what different teams' need are.

Possible, the most forgiving conclusion is that his stock stayed the same (but he lost a year of earnings)

The fact that everyone wants to focus on Smart of all the guys I listed is telling. Another guy I forgot was Romelo Trimble.
 

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