I'm sure others feel the same way

[MikeSU02]

Correction: I was adamant that we do due diligence, and identify / try to hire the best candidate that we could land. And since the three internal candidates that were most discussed here were all flawed [Hopkins was failing / about to be fired by UW, and neither Red nor GMac had any experience nor any programs seeking to even hire them], by default it seemed like the best option would be to look outside the program. I wasn't anti-guys within the program -- it's just that the available candidate pool who fit that criteria all sucked.

And why did I take that position? Because the basketball program was already teetering on the precipice of irrelevancy in 2023, and a bad hire would set us back even more.

As stated earlier, JW opting to appease ex-players was a choice, not a mandate. Two years later, we see how "engaged" a prominent ex-player like Derrick Coleman is, given what's unfolding on the court.

The "path with the least long term damage," as you put it, is actually the path that caused MORE damage -- to our product, to our brand, and to the quality of play on the court. And now the NEXT coach will have an even bigger hole to dig their way out of to get SU basketball back on track.

I understand why JW did what he did as well. But at the time, I believed it was a risky strategy. And now that we see results, it seems increasingly like a bad move / poor decision.

And, this is all in the wrapper of the ACC being relegated to a second-tier conference being outside the B1G and SEC.

So the normal runway for error and appeasement that has been had in the past does not exist anymore.

And, in reality, this is just an extension of what JB was allowed to do. So it's a decade on downtrend wrapped in a very unstable conference situation.

I get it's easy for me to say this from the comfort of my couch and my computer, but I'm also not paid millions of dollars to do this job.

 

[orangecuse]

Correction: I was adamant that we do due diligence, and identify / try to hire the best candidate that we could land. And since the three internal candidates that were most discussed here were all flawed [Hopkins was failing / about to be fired by UW, and neither Red nor GMac had any experience nor any programs seeking to even hire them], by default it seemed like the best option would be to look outside the program. I wasn't anti-guys within the program -- it's just that the available candidate pool who fit that criteria all sucked.

And why did I take that position? Because the basketball program was already teetering on the precipice of irrelevancy in 2023, and a bad hire would set us back even more.

As stated earlier, JW opting to appease ex-players was a choice, not a mandate. Two years later, we see how "engaged" a prominent ex-player like Derrick Coleman is, given what's unfolding on the court. We've seen reports that the program is cash-strapped, and in dire straights financially -- so what exactly did appeasing boosters engaged with the program tangibly accomplish?

The "path with the least long term damage," as you put it, is actually the path that caused MORE damage -- to our product, to our brand, and to the quality of play on the court. And now the NEXT coach will have an even bigger hole to dig their way out of to get SU basketball back on track.

I understand why JW did what he did as well. But at the time, I believed it was a risky strategy. And now that we see results, it seems increasingly like a bad move / poor decision.

Edit -- I agree 100% that JB put everyone involved -- the school, the ACs, the AD, etc. in a really bad position with his stubbornness.

 

[CuseCPT]

And, this is all in the wrapper of the ACC being relegated to a second-tier conference being outside the B1G and SEC.

So the normal runway for error and appeasement that has been had in the past does not exist anymore.

And, in reality, this is just an extension of what JB was allowed to do. So it's a decade on downtrend wrapped in a very unstable conference situation.

I get it's easy for me to say this from the comfort of my couch and my computer, but I'm also not paid millions of dollars to do this job.

And if that isn't enough, put that inside the wrapper of it being while we were trying to establish our identify in new conference, while it was being relegated into a second-tier conference. In some ways it was the perfect storm, but also we had a weather control machine and made the storm worse.

 

[Cusefan95]

As stated earlier, JW opting to appease ex-players was a choice, not a mandate. Two years later, we see how "engaged" a prominent ex-player like Derrick Coleman is, given what's unfolding on the court. We've seen reports that the program is cash-strapped, and in dire straights financially -- so what exactly did appeasing boosters engaged with the program tangibly accomplish?
…I understand why JW did what he did as well. But at the time, I believed it was a risky strategy. And now that we see results, it seems increasingly like a bad move / poor decision.

Edit -- I agree 100% that JB put everyone involved -- the school, the ACs, the AD, etc. in a really bad position with his stubbornness.

JW’s choice likely came down to alienating the fewest number of high power stakeholders as possible so he could keep his job - or maximize how many people you alienate by pushing JB out the door and going outside for the next coach. The latter option he definitely doesn’t survive if the coach starts slowly - and might not even make it as AD to that coach’s first game.

I think the folks laying a lot of blame at Wildhack’s feet aren’t fully appreciating the political dynamics at a university like Syracuse - and therefore don’t understand why he did what he did as much as they think.

Let’s be honest - the university has treated the athletic department as a cash cow for over 40 years. We’ve gone through multiple chancellors and ADs - and that has remained a constant. The issues that led to a less than ideal internal hire of a basketball coach go deeper than the AD, probably deeper than the chancellor…structurally and culturally, Syracuse is what it is. And that is a university which is going to chronically abuse and neglect the athletic department until we find out we’re on the outside looking in at major college athletics. Maybe at that point the real culprits will figure out their mentality was a poor one - but I doubt it will happen even then.

I feel for JW; he’s a better man than me. I would have bailed on this pathetic sheetshow 4 or 5 years ago if I was in his shoes.

 

[CuseCPT]

JW’s choice likely came down to alienating the fewest number of high power stakeholders as possible so he could keep his job - or maximize how many people you alienate by pushing JB out the door and going outside for the next coach. The latter option he definitely doesn’t survive if the coach starts slowly - and might not even make it as AD to that coach’s first game.

I think the folks laying a lot of blame at Wildhack’s feet aren’t fully appreciating the political dynamics at a university like Syracuse - and therefore don’t understand why he did what he did as much as they think.

Let’s be honest - the university has treated the athletic department as a cash cow for over 40 years. We’ve gone through multiple chancellors and ADs - and that has remained a constant. The issues that led to a less than ideal internal hire of a basketball coach go deeper than the AD, probably deeper than the chancellor…structurally and culturally, Syracuse is what it is. And that is a university which is going to chronically abuse and neglect the athletic department until we find out we’re on the outside looking in at major college athletics. Maybe at that point the real culprits will figure out their mentality was a poor one - but I doubt it will happen even then.

I feel for JW; he’s a better man than me. I would have bailed on this pathetic sheetshow 4 or 5 years ago if I was in his shoes.

It makes you wonder if Mark Coyle immediately saw the writing on the wall. I wonder if he has any stock picks.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

It makes you wonder if Mark Coyle immediately saw the writing on the wall. I wonder if he has any stock picks.

Coyle’s family was very unhappy in CNY. His son trained with my son. Nice people. They just never settled in here.

 

[MSOrange]

It makes you wonder if Mark Coyle immediately saw the writing on the wall. I wonder if he has any stock picks.

As I remember, someone who usually posts reliable info said it was one of the reasons Coyle left, but not the main one.

 

[kingtidge]

JW’s choice likely came down to alienating the fewest number of high power stakeholders as possible so he could keep his job - or maximize how many people you alienate by pushing JB out the door and going outside for the next coach. The latter option he definitely doesn’t survive if the coach starts slowly - and might not even make it as AD to that coach’s first game.

I think the folks laying a lot of blame at Wildhack’s feet aren’t fully appreciating the political dynamics at a university like Syracuse - and therefore don’t understand why he did what he did as much as they think.

Let’s be honest - the university has treated the athletic department as a cash cow for over 40 years. We’ve gone through multiple chancellors and ADs - and that has remained a constant. The issues that led to a less than ideal internal hire of a basketball coach go deeper than the AD, probably deeper than the chancellor…structurally and culturally, Syracuse is what it is. And that is a university which is going to chronically abuse and neglect the athletic department until we find out we’re on the outside looking in at major college athletics. Maybe at that point the real culprits will figure out their mentality was a poor one - but I doubt it will happen even then.

I feel for JW; he’s a better man than me. I would have bailed on this pathetic sheetshow 4 or 5 years ago if I was in his shoes.

These our my sentiments as well, but I was told it's apples and oranges and not a valid argument.

Either way, I agree and yes, the school is now at a crossroads with basketball and can't go on expecting cash-cow attendances with a derelict product.

People simply won't pay for it.

17K for dome G'town game doesn't happen overnight, and the attendances will likely continue in the attrition curve.

While sad, it is what should happen. The fans should not be taken for granted and money talks.

 

[Cusefan95]

It makes you wonder if Mark Coyle immediately saw the writing on the wall. I wonder if he has any stock picks.

I moved for a decent chunk of my career to Wisconsin. Moving back to the northeast was a bigger culture shock than I’d anticipated - I suspect it’s even bigger for someone who wasn’t born and raised in the northeast. I suspect that was a huge factor.

But I remember being at a Syracuse sponsored party several years ago and listening to a couple boosters who were very upset at how Syracuse had dropped in the US News rankings. They were strongly advocating for de-emphasizing athletics and building relationships with the Ivys and northeastern public Ivys to build a stronger academic profile and standing. So I think a big factor for Coyle was the realization that Syracuse’s boosters have an exceptionally diverse set of expectations - and this is not a “diversity is our strength” situation related to the athletic department.

 

[baggerbob]

Correction: I was adamant that we do due diligence, and identify / try to hire the best candidate that we could land. And since the three internal candidates that were most discussed here were all flawed [Hopkins was failing / about to be fired by UW, and neither Red nor GMac had any experience nor any programs seeking to even hire them], by default it seemed like the best option would be to look outside the program. I wasn't anti-guys within the program -- it's just that the available candidate pool who fit that criteria all sucked.

And why did I take that position? Because the basketball program was already teetering on the precipice of irrelevancy in 2023, and a bad hire would set us back even more.

As stated earlier, JW opting to appease ex-players was a choice, not a mandate. Two years later, we see how "engaged" a prominent ex-player like Derrick Coleman is, given what's unfolding on the court. We've seen reports that the program is cash-strapped, and in dire straights financially -- so what exactly did appeasing boosters engaged with the program tangibly accomplish?

The "path with the least long term damage," as you put it, is actually the path that caused MORE damage -- to our product, to our brand, and to the quality of play on the court. And now the NEXT coach will have an even bigger hole to dig their way out of to get SU basketball back on track.

I understand why JW did what he did as well. But at the time, I believed it was a risky strategy. And now that we see results, it seems increasingly like a bad move / poor decision.

Edit -- I agree 100% that JB put everyone involved -- the school, the ACs, the AD, etc. in a really bad position with his stubbornness.

And if the program craters, as it seems it might, JB's legacy will be tarnished.
Because if we continue to be a laughing stock, all people will remember is the bad teams.

 

[Newhouser]

I moved for a decent chunk of my career to Wisconsin. Moving back to the northeast was a bigger culture shock than I’d anticipated - I suspect it’s even bigger for someone who wasn’t born and raised in the northeast. I suspect that was a huge factor.

But I remember being at a Syracuse sponsored party several years ago and listening to a couple boosters who were very upset at how Syracuse had dropped in the US News rankings. They were strongly advocating for de-emphasizing athletics and building relationships with the Ivys and northeastern public Ivys to build a stronger academic profile and standing. So I think a big factor for Coyle was the realization that Syracuse’s boosters have an exceptionally diverse set of expectations - and this is not a “diversity is our strength” situation related to the athletic department.

I think Coyle has the foresight to see that big state schools will be bigger athletics players than private schools who act like their Harvard even though they accept over half of their applicants.

 

[IthacaMatt]

These our my sentiments as well, but I was told it's apples and oranges and not a valid argument.

Either way, I agree and yes, the school is now at a crossroads with basketball and can't go on expecting cash-cow attendances with a derelict product.

People simply won't pay for it.

17K for dome G'town game doesn't happen overnight, and the attendances will likely continue in the attrition curve.

While sad, it is what should happen. The fans should not be taken for granted and money talks.

They'll be lucky to get 10,000 for the games other than UNC, Duke, and maybe Virginia.