imagine if teams played man d

[Brooky03]

No.

Box and 1, M2M, pressuring ball carrier up the court, doesn't matter. Since our offense has been inept for a number of years, we are forced to win on defense, so anything that slows down the opponent's offense is a plus in my book. That said, if the opponent is struggling against the 2-3, no need to come out of it.

Teams who play m2m and switch to zone almost always play a mediocre version that gets torched after a few possessions. Do we all agree on this?

I assume that our m2m defense would get shredded like those teams' zones. If that's the case, it would be something the team could do for a couple minutes but then they'd have to switch back before it loses them the game.

That makes it something of a trunk monkey, to me. And our trunk monkey press is filling that role nicely for my money. I would like to see deeper benches with more fullcourt pressure.

 

[upperdeck]

lets find a few guys who make shots and worry less about the D.

the story is that teams get hot and it doesnt matter what D you are playing.

most of our losses came in games our O was bad, you just hope the few games that the other team lights it up dont happen in big games.. Ask g-town about losing to Vill..

 

[samspann1]

I’m kinda seeing both sides here to an extent.

Big picture, I don’t think defense has been the problem other than the grad transfer year. Otherwise, we’ve overall been pretty good defensively. I think the zone is an overplayed whipping boy for some and I can see why it’s drawing the “hey, this all man to man team just got lit up!” posts.

On the other hand, I think the zone becoming our calling card is not necessarily a great thing. And going way back, I always thought the zone got way too much credit when we won it all. For the “mix it up” proponents, we went man to man in the second half of our two biggest home regular season wins against ND and Pitt, and it was a big reason we won those games.

The zone confused Oklahoma in the tourney. But in the final four we won because we scored 95 against Texas, and hit 10 3’s in the first half against Kansas.

And Kansas played man!

You're saying that "big picture, I don't think defense has been the problem other than the grad transfer year." I agree to an extent, but what's your opinion on why the offense has been as bad as it's been in recent years?

 

[Zepharus]

then they wouldnt give up 17 3s and lose..

oh wait..

Pollyanna alert! Incoming "program falling deflection post"

 

[Brooky03]

lets find a few guys who make shots and worry less about the D.

the story is that teams get hot and it doesnt matter what D you are playing.

most of our losses came in games our O was bad, you just hope the few games that the other team lights it up dont happen in big games.. Ask g-town about losing to Vill..

We'll have plenty of shooters next year, so that's a good omen.

 

[hoopsupstate]

...and the posts which point to a subpar defensive performance by a team playing M2M, almost always in a passive aggressive fashion, are disingenuous, at best.

I don't see many of these same people posting about about a good-to-great defensive performance by a M2M team...

I would say Texas Tech is a dominating man to man defensive team.

 

[rrlbees]

I think a small part of why we play all zone is because our zone is hard to learn and it can be played multiple ways such as how high do we bring the forward, what does the center do, the slides, traps, etc. if we spend much time on m2m in practice to learn that right, then a sufficient amount of time won’t be spent on learning the zone properly. Over the long term our zone has been very good to great. Learn to play m2m and both defenses may only be ok. I see some of these teams go to a zone and it’s not a very good one typically.

 

[samspann1]

I would say Texas Tech is a dominating man to man defensive team.

And how often have you seen people comment here on how well they played defense in the first 3 rounds? I will guarantee, however, that if Gonzaga makes a bunch of 3s today, people will be posting about that.

 

[OrangeDW]

And Kansas played man!

You're saying that "big picture, I don't think defense has been the problem other than the grad transfer year." I agree to an extent, but what's your opinion on why the offense has been as bad as it's been in recent years?

Mostly lack of offensive talent, IMO.

I’d like to see us recruit better offensive players even if they’re not very good defensively. I think we can coach them up/scheme them up better defensively than we can offensively.

 

[samspann1]

Mostly lack of offensive talent, IMO.

I’d like to see us recruit better offensive players even if they’re not very good defensively. I think we can coach them up/scheme them up better defensively than we can offensively.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that perhaps the staff is focusing more on the defensive attributes of recruits than their offensive attributes?

 

[hoopsupstate]

Teaching good man to man takes work and a lot more work prepping for a team. JB only targets a couple of shooters each game, where if he was playing man he would have to prepare for many different sets. He won’t even do a shoot around for a game and only takes a potty break at half time. His team is back on the floor just minutes after halftime. He’s been taking the easy way out for years and it shows in recruiting and on the floor. He wouldn’t have had Battle if his father hadn’t talked him into going to SU. I understand he isn’t going to have the same energy as he had 15 years ago, but it acts like his coaching is more a hobby than grinding like crazy to get back to where we were. 70 losses the past five years says it all. Someone at the University needs to wake up or three star players will become the norm. If I had NBA aspirations, I would not consider going to SU. All an opposing coach would have to say to me is “Do you want to play zone 100% of the time!”

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that perhaps the staff is focusing more on the defensive attributes of recruits than their offensive attributes?

Possibly? That’s who we seemed to be getting. I don’t know how much was intentional though. We went after Quade hard. We recruited Joseph, he just didn’t pan out.

Now we brought in Jalen. I don’t think those are guys they recruited for defense first/“length in the zone!” purposes. I don’t think the plan was to make 6’7 Gbinije the point guard. He was just all we had. Same with Howard, IMO.

 

[OrangeDW]

Teaching good man to man takes work and a lot more work prepping for a team. JB only targets a couple of shooters each game, where if he was playing man he would have to prepare for many different sets. He won’t even do a shoot around for a game and only takes a potty break at half time. His team is back on the floor just minutes after halftime. He’s been taking the easy way out for years and it shows in recruiting and on the floor. He wouldn’t have had Battle if his father hadn’t talked him into going to SU. I understand he isn’t going to have the same energy as he had 15 years ago, but it acts like his coaching is more a hobby than grinding like crazy to get back to where we were. 70 losses the past five years says it all. Someone at the University needs to wake up or three star players will become the norm. If I had NBA aspirations, I would not consider going to SU. All an opposing coach would have to say to me is “Do you want to play zone 100% of the time!”

This is so overplayed. The NBA cares about offensive skill sets and physical measurables and athleticism way more than they do what defensive scheme you played in college. If you’ve got the measurables and are an athlete they know you can become a good NBA defender. See Jerami Grant.

 

[rrlbees]

Teaching good man to man takes work and a lot more work prepping for a team. JB only targets a couple of shooters each game, where if he was playing man he would have to prepare for many different sets. He won’t even do a shoot around for a game and only takes a potty break at half time. His team is back on the floor just minutes after halftime. He’s been taking the easy way out for years and it shows in recruiting and on the floor. He wouldn’t have had Battle if his father hadn’t talked him into going to SU. I understand he isn’t going to have the same energy as he had 15 years ago, but it acts like his coaching is more a hobby than grinding like crazy to get back to where we were. 70 losses the past five years says it all. Someone at the University needs to wake up or three star players will become the norm. If I had NBA aspirations, I would not consider going to SU. All an opposing coach would have to say to me is “Do you want to play zone 100% of the time!”

I’ve never seen SU back on the floor minutes after halftime. I’ve also seen many player after a game say jb read them the riot act at halftime. I don’t believe for one minute we do nothing at halftime besides take a potty break.

 

[samspann1]

I’ve never seen SU back on the floor minutes after halftime. I’ve also seen many player after a game say jb read them the riot act at halftime. I don’t believe for one minute we do nothing at halftime besides take a potty break.

I don't know what was done or said at halftime of games this season, but whatever it was, didn't generally seem to help in the 2H

 

[jgeorge322]

I don't know what was done or said at halftime of games this season, but whatever it was, didn't generally seem to help in the 2H

Or the teams that we blew second half leads to, outside of odu, were just better. Sometimes that happens too.

 

[upperdeck]

good man is easier to teach than good zone.. but if you have a weakness in man its easier to exploit as well. good shooter and good guard play make it hard on any zone..

if the TT forward was playing for us our offense would look much better too.. you need a guy and we didnt really have a guy. you put Carmelo on our team this year and we would have had a solid offense.

sometimes thats all it takes..

 

[NKR1978]

I’m kinda seeing both sides here to an extent.

Big picture, I don’t think defense has been the problem other than the grad transfer year. Otherwise, we’ve overall been pretty good defensively. I think the zone is an overplayed whipping boy for some and I can see why it’s drawing the “hey, this all man to man team just got lit up!” posts.

On the other hand, I think the zone becoming our calling card is not necessarily a great thing. And going way back, I always thought the zone got way too much credit when we won it all. For the “mix it up” proponents, we went man to man in the second half of our two biggest home regular season wins against ND and Pitt, and it was a big reason we won those games.

The zone confused Oklahoma in the tourney. But in the final four we won because we scored 95 against Texas, and hit 10 3’s in the first half against Kansas.

I have thought the defense that year was adequate but the offense was almost perfect. That team was great because of offense.

 

[samspann1]

Or the teams that we blew second half leads to, outside of odu, were just better. Sometimes that happens too.

Clemson?

NC State and GT were one possession games at the half that turned into blowouts.

 

[rrlbees]

Clemson?

NC State and GT were one possession games at the half that turned into blowouts.

There were also games we did play very well in the second half. Neither however means we went into the locker room, took a leak and went back out on the court.

 

[samspann1]

There were also games we did play very well in the second half. Neither however means we went into the locker room, took a leak and went back out on the court.

Like I said, I have no idea what is said or done in the locker room at the half.

But other than the 2nd half of the game @ Duke, and a spurt vs. FSU, I can't think of many other games in which we played well again decent-good competition in the 2H

 

[rrlbees]

Like I said, I have no idea what is said or done in the locker room at the half.

But other than the 2nd half of the game @ Duke, and a spurt vs. FSU, I can't think of many other games in which we played well again decent-good competition in the 2H

Off the top of my head we were trailing at halftime and won vs Duke, Ohio st, ND, Gtown, Pitt in the acct. and had a few other very good sending half’s. We had stinkers too.

 

[pfister1]

I’ve never seen SU back on the floor minutes after halftime. I’ve also seen many player after a game say jb read them the riot act at halftime. I don’t believe for one minute we do nothing at halftime besides take a potty break.

I challenge you to name one second half adjustment JB has ever made, or at least in the last 15 years since he started to mail it in......besides the strategy to lighten everyone's bladder in the hopes they'll be quicker to get out on shooters with said lighter bladder.

 

[samspann1]

Off the top of my head we were trailing at halftime and won vs Duke, Ohio st, ND, Gtown, Pitt in the acct. and had a few other very good sending half’s. We had stinkers too.

Forgot about OSU, good call on that. But ND, Gtown and Pitt were pretty bad this year.

 

[pfister1]

Or the teams that we blew second half leads to, outside of odu, were just better. Sometimes that happens too.

Another way of saying that the sum of the parts this season may not have been nearly as good as we all anticipated it being.