In order to get to the next level

[kcsu]

So, you think a different coach would have prevented the blocked FG?

Or would have prevented the Kobena fumble or the Krautman miss?

Marrone said that they were very mindful of the Cincy block scheme on the FG and that they practiced against it - that they didn't execute the plan.

Maybe there was a problem with the plan but I doubt it. I suspect that in that instance Cincy's players overcame our plan and our players and just made the play.

You know by all accounts we had a very good Special Teams coach here for nearly two years - Bob Casullo. A guy who went to the Super Bowl I think on two occassions with two different teams.

And his STs were awful.

I don't know the answer but I question once again the old reliable "we need a new coach" response to the failure by players to execute the plan.

I know what Doug said but frankly i dont buy it. Twice that side of the line has been exploited so something is off that the opposing coaches have noticed and taken advantage of. The Krautman miss was not coaching in the execution but rather a poor decision which i address in my second point. I simply do not think we should have kicked at that point in the game given the horrible weather conditions. My point is simple. Dedicate a special teams coach. Make it a priority and if Doug is going to put his name on the position than truly own it vs just papering the situation.

 

[kcsu]

Is he not responsible for getting the right players? The way you are making it sound, we should never have fired Grob. The head coach isn't responsible for anything.

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Bees my point as well. Special teams have been horrible. Doug anointed himself the special teams coach. It isnt working and has cost us games. Hire a special teams coach or appoint one of the current coaches to special teams on top of their current role. Simple it

 

[OrangePA]

I know what Doug said but frankly i dont buy it. Twice that side of the line has been exploited so something is off that the opposing coaches have noticed and taken advantage of. The Krautman miss was not coaching in the execution but rather a poor decision which i address in my second point. I simply do not think we should have kicked at that point in the game given the horrible weather conditions. My point is simple. Dedicate a special teams coach. Make it a priority and if Doug is going to put his name on the position than truly own it vs just papering the situation.

Uh.

Bob Casullo.

 

[Orangello]

So we had a Yugo and now we have a 4 year old Chevy Malibu . That doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to have a Lexus.

If we have the wrong players in year 4 that's on the head coach and if we are not constantly improving the talent we do have that's also on the head coach and his staff.

 

[rrlbees]

Yes. He is responsible for coming up with the right players.

And he is in the process of doing that - he is 21-25 with three games to go in his fourth season. Robinson won ten games in four seasons.

So, Marrone is making significant headway in the talent department.

But he has a way to go.

He clearly needs more home run threats, bigger, stronger and faster WRs, more hitters like Sharmarko Thomas, a better punter and apparently a better kicker. Kids will make mistakes - Cincy made plenty yesterday. Better talent will make those mistakes less crucial.

I agonized over what I watched yesterday, but I realize that we are on the way to some great times with SU Football.

Just to be clear. He is responsible for brining in the talent, the right talent that fits the system, to teach the fundamentals and skills, to teach the system, to put the right players on the field, to prep them for the game plan, to put them in a position to be successful, to make the right in game decisions, and to make adjustments to who os on the field and what schemes are being used.

It isn't just recruit talent and throw the ball out there.

This shouldn't have been a 7 year plan. If it is, Doug is the wrong guy. He went to a bowl in year 2 with someone elses players. His best offensive players remain someone elses players.



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[OrangePA]

Just to be clear. He is responsible for brining in the talent, the right talent that fits the system, to teach the fundamentals and skills, to teach the system, to put the right players on the field, to prep them for the game plan, to put them in a position to be successful, to make the right in game decisions, and to make adjustments to who os on the field and what schemes are being used.

It isn't just recruit talent and throw the ball out there.

This shouldn't have been a 7 year plan. If it is, Doug is the wrong guy. He went to a bowl in year 2 with someone elses players. His best offensive players remain someone elses players.



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Has it been seven years?

My how time flies.

Oh, and one other thing.

How long did it take Coach Mac?

As I recall, seven years.

 

[sufandu]

Has it been seven years?

My how time flies.

Oh, and one other thing.

How long did it take Coach Mac?

As I recall, seven years.

I'll add on. How long did it take Frank Beamer? His 7th year was the first year he won 9 games at VT. He won 2 the year before, and that was after he had won 6 in years 3 and 4. It's not always a linear progression.

 

[rrlbees]

Has it been seven years?

My how time flies.

Oh, and one other thing.

How long did it take Coach Mac?

As I recall, seven years.

Different era. Coaches don't get 7 years anymore. At least not if you expect fans and donors and want a solid program. Look around you, coaches get dumped left and right long before 7 years if the program is losing.

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[rrlbees]

I'll add on. How long did it take Frank Beamer? His 7th year was the first year he won 9 games at VT. He won 2 the year before, and that was after he had won 6 in years 3 and 4. It's not always a linear progression.

Like I said about Mac, different era.

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[sdpenny32]

I understand the frustration of fans who want Marrone fired or think his leash is tightening. When a team continues to shoot themselves in the foot, it falls on the coach. Im not even just talking about the drops and physical errors. It is the ridiculous amount of penalties and mental errors that drive me nuts and it reflects poorly on the coaching staff. Having said that, firing Marrone is out of the question right now. Look at the big picture. Recruiting is steadily improving and we are seeing a bigger, faster and more talented team on the field. Also, what other options are out there? A temporary coach who sees Syracuse only as a stepping stone? Marrone is fully invested in this program and has already brought it out from the cellar of division I football. The only thing keeping this team from being in the top 25 is self-inflicted wounds. This is his first head coaching job and although it is painful to see the losses pile up, he and the program are growing. He is going to get this thing right.

 

[sufandu]

Like I said about Mac, different era.

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That may be the way it is. Is it the way it should be?

 

[sdpenny32]

Different era. Coaches don't get 7 years anymore. At least not if you expect fans and donors and want a solid program. Look around you, coaches get dumped left and right long before 7 years if the program is losing.

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Coaches get fired for losing before 7 seasons only if the program is declining or pleateauing. Marrone has resurrected this progam from the dead and steadily improving the state of the program. Firing Marrone would be extremely hasty at this point and will bring the program right back to where it was 4 years ago. We are not a powerhouse program where you either win now or youre out.

 

[tbonezone]

we average 3.57 yards per punt return. our opponents average 16.3. might wanna address this.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

we average 3.57 yards per punt return. our opponents average 16.3. might wanna address this.

SU gave up 2 bad punt returns for 134 yds against NW, and 2 returns for 43 yds against USC.

Over the next 7 games (SB, Minny, Pitt, Ruttie, UConn, USF, Cinci), they've given up a TOTAL of 17 yards. An average of 2.375 yds per punt return.

Addressed enough for ya?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That may be the way it is. Is it the way it should be?

That question is irrelevant. Sounds harsh, but it's true.

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[sufandu]

That question is irrelevant. Sounds harsh, but it's true.

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It's not irrelevant because we don't have to do it even if it seems everyone else is. Everyone doing things that way wants to find their Nick Saban or Bill Snyder. There's only one Bill Snyder and there's only one Alabama that can have Nick Saban. I wouldn't want to get rid of someone so hastily that has made so much progress, hoping to find someone that would not only get us where we want to be quicker, but stay at SU and keep us there. How many elite coaches wouldn't just use us as a stepping stone?

 

[rrlbees]

Coaches get fired for losing before 7 seasons only if the program is declining or pleateauing. Marrone has resurrected this progam from the dead and steadily improving the state of the program. Firing Marrone would be extremely hasty at this point and will bring the program right back to where it was 4 years ago. We are not a powerhouse program where you either win now or youre out.

First, I do not believe Marrone should be fired. But second, unlike a few here, he has to be held accountable for what has been happening on the field. Every game, every season, it is new excuses.

 

[sdpenny32]

First, I do not believe Marrone should be fired. But second, unlike a few here, he has to be held accountable for what has been happening on the field. Every game, every season, it is new excuses.

Couldn't agree more. The amount of mental mistakes and unforced errors this team commits is absolutely inexcusable and those are the mistakes that fall on the shoulders of the coach. I just think people calling for his head already aren't seeing the big picture.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

First, I do not believe Marrone should be fired. But second, unlike a few here, he has to be held accountable for what has been happening on the field. Every game, every season, it is new excuses.

That's my take. I'm actually in favor of an extension. But there are some clear areas in need of improvement that have revealed themselves and aren't explained by talent or personnel.

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[SWC75]

Check Orangehomer's post under my "Winning Plays" post. He makes a very interesting point.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/winning-plays-cincinnati.35341/#post-399837

 

[SWC75]

We still lack players,case in point was the play that turned the game PTG missed a blitz and Ryan is blindsided and fumbles. Our current running backs are not good enough to play at this level. In 1987 we had Daryl Johnson, Rob Drummond, Michael Owens, 1998 Rob Konrad and Mcintosh. On a passing play with 1 blocker in 1987 you have Daryl, in 1998 you have Rob. On that play their eyes would have lit up with a chance to bury a DB, and then slip into the flat for a pass which would have gone for at least 35-45 yds. Two guys who could block catch and once they got up to speed very hard to bring down. When we start to get those type of players again we will be back. Any of the 5 players would be starting on this team.

I don't think Gulley missed the block because he "isn't good enough to play at this level". You post does point out a defect in the modern system of offense I've been steessing for years. When you have two running backs in the bakcfield with the quarterback, you've got more blockers in the pocket. They can not only make more blocks. They can cover more possibilities. When a single guy has got to "play safety" for the quarterback and he's got to look for defenders coming in from a 180 dergree arc. It's going to make it much mroe likely that he'll react late and/or be out of positon to make the block. And you can still throw to the backs from that set, so we don't really lose a receiver.

 

[SWC75]

Different era. Coaches don't get 7 years anymore. At least not if you expect fans and donors and want a solid program. Look around you, coaches get dumped left and right long before 7 years if the program is losing.

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That doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do or that this rebuilding job can be done any quicker than the previous ones. We will play a program in Missouri that got ressurected because they kept the coaching staff in place through some bad years and it paid off. Saying it's a "different era" doesn't turn a bad decision into a good one.

 

[Opus]

we need better players. Thats it. Analyzing everything else is crap.

Agreed! IMO, better players = faster players. What this team lacks in spades.

 

[rrlbees]

That doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do or that this rebuilding job can be done any quicker than the previous ones. We will play a program in Missouri that got ressurected because they kept the coaching staff in place through some bad years and it paid off. Saying it's a "different era" doesn't turn a bad decision into a good one.

It is right because in todays era it is all about winning. No more no less. Money, donors, TV etc. All driven by winning. Keep up with the Jonses.

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[sufandu]

It is right because in todays era it is all about winning. No more no less. Money, donors, TV etc. All driven by winning. Keep up with the Jonses.

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It's not written in stone that 4 years and out is the right strategy for all situations. In a state lacking strong highschool football with facilities already behind the competition more patience is necessary. The caveat being progress is taking place. In our situation progress is slower than we'd like, but has been progress.