In order to get to the next level

[PhatOrange]

To take the next step we need players to make plays and we need to recruit more talent.

 

[rrlbees]

It's not written in stone that 4 years and out is the right strategy for all situations. In a state lacking strong highschool football with facilities already behind the competition more patience is necessary. The caveat being progress is taking place. In our situation progress is slower than we'd like, but has been progress.

Not sure I said anything about 4 years.

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[SmilinBob]

Interesting thoughts by all and to me there is a lot to this equation.

I look at what happened at Colorado and Kentucky and I see the constant quick fix hire the wrong guy. Colorado was on par with SU and watching them go down in greg robinson type flame has been a bit of a lesson. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think SU is the type of school that can bring in a coach and have him wow recruits and all of a sudden we are winning big again. SU does not have the money, fans or facilities to do so. The grass isn't always greener. Is there really something better out there?

Regarding Marrone. He's a step backwards 1 1/2 forwards coach right now but that isn't consistent either. I like a lot of the things he does and says and that's a positive for me and how I evaluate coaches. From what I gather he is willing to continue learning and teaching...has recognized where improvement needs to be done and has been an average recruiter. Loyal, knows the university back and fourth and that includes the fickle/poor fan base as well. Has the respect of the coaches in nys and around the country. Not so sure about his game day coaching when it comes to the scores and quick decisions and I'm leaning towards below average especially after watching the "tank" without Moore, it just hurts to watch. This oline just does not get enough of a push to make this work with a small back. As for the fg blocks, it's on the coach AND the players. Both must execute their jobs and failure is not an option.

Overall I want him to coach SU. One problem I have with him is that he seems to be good at writing things out ahead of time but the adjustments are below what level he is coaching. Can he improve this? I believe he can. Can he recruit? He seems to target/recognize talent very well but he needs to be able to get a solid percentage of recruits he has targeted, especially the high talent ones. He has to pull some rabbits out of a hat in that regard because the fan base is a huge negative. Kids love attention, cool facilities and playing in a game time atmosphere. We have none of those and are well below average. Winning will cure almost all ill's and hide many flaws as much as losing doesn't and I hope the fan base and administration will have the patience in this A.D.D type of world we now live in to give this a chance and give Marrone an extension.

For the record since you all don't know me, I wanted P out in his last couple of years and Robinson gone after 1.

 

[sufandu]

Not sure I said anything about 4 years.

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You didn't, but that's the number many people throw out, so I chose that.

 

[sufandu]

Interesting thoughts by all and to me there is a lot to this equation.

I look at what happened at Colorado and Kentucky and I see the constant quick fix hire the wrong guy. Colorado was on par with SU and watching them go down in greg robinson type flame has been a bit of a lesson. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think SU is the type of school that can bring in a coach and have him wow recruits and all of a sudden we are winning big again. SU does not have the money, fans or facilities to do so. The grass isn't always greener. Is there really something better out there?

Regarding Marrone. He's a step backwards 1 1/2 forwards coach right now but that isn't consistent either. I like a lot of the things he does and says and that's a positive for me and how I evaluate coaches. From what I gather he is willing to continue learning and teaching...has recognized where improvement needs to be done and has been an average recruiter. Loyal, knows the university back and fourth and that includes the fickle/poor fan base as well. Has the respect of the coaches in nys and around the country. Not so sure about his game day coaching when it comes to the scores and quick decisions and I'm leaning towards below average especially after watching the "tank" without Moore, it just hurts to watch. This oline just does not get enough of a push to make this work with a small back. As for the fg blocks, it's on the coach AND the players. Both must execute their jobs and failure is not an option.

Overall I want him to coach SU. One problem I have with him is that he seems to be good at writing things out ahead of time but the adjustments are below what level he is coaching. Can he improve this? I believe he can. Can he recruit? He seems to target/recognize talent very well but he needs to be able to get a solid percentage of recruits he has targeted, especially the high talent ones. He has to pull some rabbits out of a hat in that regard because the fan base is a huge negative. Kids love attention, cool facilities and playing in a game time atmosphere. We have none of those and are well below average. Winning will cure almost all ill's and hide many flaws as much as losing doesn't and I hope the fan base and administration will have the patience in this A.D.D type of world we now live in to give this a chance and give Marrone an extension.

For the record since you all don't know me, I wanted P out in his last couple of years and Robinson gone after 1.

Lot's of interesting points. We've been trying to figure out who's responsible for our problems and one thing many of us have agreed on is if we had more talented players, some of this stuff wouldn't be happening or wouldn't matter as much. Your comment about recruits and our below average fanbase is a legitimate one. While we continue to wonder why Marrone hasn't been able to bring in the big fish, we should remember that we're part of the problem. By "we" I don't mean the people on this board but the fanbase, or lack thereof, as a whole.

The hardcore fans are as good as any team anywhere, but we just don't have as many hardcore or casual fans as the teams we want to compete with. At Tennessee (I'm sorry I reference them so much, but I live in Knoxville and their situation is similar to ours) they're ready to run their coach out of town and so people don't show up to games. By don't show up I mean they "only" put 85,000 in their stadium. Think about that for a minute.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

PTG missed the block because he isn't a very sharp football player, plain and simple, hate to say it.

 

[SWC75]

It is right because in todays era it is all about winning. No more no less. Money, donors, TV etc. All driven by winning. Keep up with the Jonses.

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All eras have been about winning. If this is a less patient era, that doesn't make the job any easier or make it wiser to pull the plug before the job can get done.

 

[JeremyCuse]

All eras have been about winning. If this is a less patient era, that doesn't make the job any easier or make it wiser to pull the plug before the job can get done.

What he is saying is that in today's era unless your a D1AA school our an outlining 1A program no gets 7 years anymore and Doug wont get it either. Barring a meltdown these last three games he will be back next year but without a bowl game next season he wont survive, the continued issues with penalties, discipline, and special teams aren't going unnoticed.

 

[SWC75]

What he is saying is that in today's era unless your a D1AA school our an outlining 1A program no gets 7 years anymore and Doug wont get it either. Barring a meltdown these last three games he will be back next year but without a bowl game next season he wont survive, the continued issues with penalties, discipline, and special teams aren't going unnoticed.

Gary Pinkel did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Pinkel

And agian, the argument is not whether coaches are on a shorter leash now. It's about whether that is a good thing and whether it means that we have to do it that way.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Gary Pinkel did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Pinkel

And agian, the argument is not whether coaches are on a shorter leash now. It's about whether that is a good thing and whether it means that we have to do it that way.

Pinkel is an anomaly and not exactly setting the world on fire on right now. Times have changed its not about if its a good thing or not in todays media and digital age coaches dont have the kind of leash that yourself and OPA keep pointing to. This isnt the 80's with Mac or Beamer in the early 90's, the coverage of these programs are 10 fold of what they were and negative recruitign runs rampant. Donors, alumni, AD's and fanbases will not wait severn years to see if a coach can get the team back on a better then .500 track.

 

[baggerbob]

Gary Pinkel did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Pinkel

And agian, the argument is not whether coaches are on a shorter leash now. It's about whether that is a good thing and whether it means that we have to do it that way.

I agree with you, we both have seen Ben,Frank,Mac,Coach P, GROB, and now Doug. Last time I checked, Syracuse is still a small private university, in a state which doesn't produce a lot of Div 1 prospects. We also live in the rustbelt, where many have left for better jobs. All in all not a place where you get a whizbang coach to come in, and turn things around overnight

 

[SWC75]

Pinkel is an anomaly and not exactly setting the world on fire on right now. Times have changed its not about if its a good thing or not in todays media and digital age coaches dont have the kind of leash that yourself and OPA keep pointing to. This isnt the 80's with Mac or Beamer in the early 90's, the coverage of these programs are 10 fold of what they were and negative recruitign runs rampant. Donors, alumni, AD's and fanbases will not wait severn years to see if a coach can get the team back on a better then .500 track.

That still doesn't mean the job is any easier to accomplish or that it's smarter to get rid of the coach earlier than we did in the past. It doesn't matter what era it is if it's going to take the same amount of time.

And what's wrong with being an anomaly if that's the right plan for your school?

 

[tbonezone]

i know it's been beat to death but marrone is the longest tenured coach currently in the big east. it's the new reality.
win or else...

 

[Orangello]

At what point does this become a self fulfilling prophecy ? Everyone seems to agree that we need better recruits and yet the primary reason we're not getting them is because we aren't winning and more importantly, winning consistently. As for holding marrone accountable in year 4 of his tenure, I'm not even sure what that means. I would hope he's been held accountable since day 1. I would also hope we were significantly better in year 4 of DM's tenure than we were under He Who SHall Not Be Named but .500 or sub .500 seasons aren't the standard I'm setting my expectations by. The real question everybody should be asking themselves is can this coach and his staff consistently take us to 8-10 win seasons, Top 25 type program. The jury may still be out for a lot of you but it's certainly less than encouraging. Chuck Noll used to say that champions don't do the extraordinary, they just do the ordinary very well. This team does not and the inability to do so 4 years on is really disturbing.