Incredibly poor start, piss poor FT shooting, and too many turnovers

[hoopsupstate]

We need to find a way to get Lampkin, Freeman, and Davis on the court at the same time. They’ll all contribute more than Bell if he’s not making shots.

If you put all three of them on the floor the lane will be all clogged up. You have to guard Bell. I would let Davis and Freeman shoot threes all day long. If we want to get the ball inside, you have to put some capable shooters around them.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If you put all three of them on the floor the lane will be all clogged up. You have to guard Bell. I would let Davis and Freeman shoot threes all day long. If we want to get the ball inside, you have to put some capable shooters around them.

I'm not convinced Freeman can't make them. Texas was certainly content leaving Bell open at the start of the game building a big lead.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I'm not convinced Freeman can't make them. Texas was certainly content leaving Bell open at the start of the game building a big lead.

I don’t want Freeman hanging around the three point line. It’s all he wants to do. When he attacks the basket he’s at his best. I wouldn’t encourage him to shoot threes. It’s the same thought with Davis and Petar. Are they capable to make an occasional three? Yes, but it’s not the shots we want them to take. They have to learn to play to their strengths and not to what scouts might want to see.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don’t want Freeman hanging around the three point line. It’s all he wants to do. When he attacks the basket he’s at his best. I wouldn’t encourage him to shoot threes. It’s the same thought with Davis and Petar. Are they capable to make an occasional three? Yes, but it’s not the shots we want them to take. They have to learn to play to their strengths and not to what scouts might want to see.

I don't think you ask them to be jump shooters, but you need to find a way for them to play together. They are our 3 most productive players. Having one of them on the bench at all times is not ideal or a winning formula. Right now we are constantly playing 2 guys who are providing next to nothing. Bell and whoever is in the backcourt with JJ. It reminds me of when JB played Kaleb Joseph and Roberson together at the same time after McCullough got injured in 2015.

 

[Scooch]

As someone who's suffered from on and off back pain for decades, the back and leg issues for Lampkin is likely related. It has to be some kind of pinched nerve due to a disc issue or spondylosis. Hopefully it's just a flare up and eventually they can figure out to get the pain to go away for an extended period. When it's bad it is bad, but it can go away with conservative management. His weight certainly doesn't help though.

It wasn't lost on me that when Lampkin was off the court, he was standing and pacing at the end of the bench.

It reminded me of Larry Bird in the early 90s. He could either stand, or lay down on his belly, but he couldn't sit or his back would tighten up to the point where he couldn't play.

 

[Scooch]

I believe Scooch is agreeing with you. I think his point is, if he’s not shooting well, he shouldn’t be playing.

At this point, I think it’s where we all are. I’m to the point that I think we should quickly pivot to Davis for Bell if Bell hasn’t done anything by the 16:00 mark. Go big. I’d give Carlos more string because I don’t like the other options unless Westry shows out.

Glad to see the zone last night and Naheem. We’ll see. Last night proved nothing to me.

I'm with you, although I'd let Bell go to the 2nd TV timeout of the first half. If he hasn't knocked down a couple threes by that point, then it's probably for the best for him to sit the rest of the half.

Maybe that's too strident, but something has to be done.

 

[Scooch]

Syracuse is a relic. Everyone else on earth had learned to shoot the ball and we specialize in low percentage 2s. Our most legendary outside shooter shot 35% for his career

I'm very tired of it

I can't discern what we're trying to do offensively. It's not just that we're not executing, I honestly couldn't describe what our strategy and approach is.

I'm sure the folks here smarter about Xs and Os can, but I can't for the life of me. It seems like barely controlled chaos every time down the floor.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So what else does he do?
Nothing

We've seen him defend better this season. The space cadet moments are baffling and last night he committed multiple losing plays. He's not good at putting it on the floor yet, but he's better at it and getting to the basket more. He's shown a little more playmaking and passing this year.

He's far from a perfect player but people are massively over indexing that he's "just" a shooter.

I think something's going on. We have two full seasons suggesting the dude can make threes and he's ice cold. But the tell to me is he's missing a lot of free throws. He's usually very good there.

 

[Scooch]

He's far from a perfect player but people are massively over indexing that he's "just" a shooter.

I think he is just a shooter. I mean, he doesn't defend well, doesn't rebound, doesn't have much of a handle, doesn't pass particularly great, and seems to have a low hoops IQ.

A guy like James Southerland turned himself from being just a shooter to a more well-rounded player by his senior year. He was a 13.3 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 1.1 APG, 1.4 SPB guy that year.

Bell doesn't have any of those numbers outside of scoring, which is almost entirely dependent on his ability to hit 3s.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I can't discern what we're trying to do offensively. It's not just that we're not executing, I honestly couldn't describe what our strategy and approach is.

I'm sure the folks here smarter about Xs and Os can, but I can't for the life of me. It seems like barely controlled chaos every time down the floor.

I don't think it's that complicated. We are running 4 out while trying to use Lampkin to initiate offense with him as the screener or someone else screening off the ball. The issue is there's way too many possessions that guys are standing around trying to figure out what he is going to do.

 

[BillSU]

I don't think it's that complicated. We are running 4 out while trying to use Lampkin to initiate offense with him as the screener or someone else screening off the ball. The issue is there's way too many possessions that guys are standing around trying to figure out what he is going to do.

YUP!

 

[djcon57]

I don't think it's that complicated. We are running 4 out while trying to use Lampkin to initiate offense with him as the screener or someone else screening off the ball. The issue is there's way too many possessions that guys are standing around trying to figure out what he is going to do.

Yeah...and if Bell is going to accept the ball off that screen, he needs to shoot the 3 from the handoff at least a couple of times, otherwise what's the point.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah...and if Bell is going to accept the ball off that screen, he needs to shoot the 3 from the handoff at least a couple of times, otherwise what's the point.

I mentioned it above - Bell, whatever the reason, looks like he is thinking when he is out there. He is a beat late on everything.

It's funny, because I thought the exact *opposite* would be a problem this year - where as soon as the ball hit his finger tips, he would let it fly.

Instead, it's like he's trying to read the D and sometimes almost freezes and picks up his dribble too early.

And I agree with you, let it fly on that hand off and let's run it a few times for Chris early in the game to see if we can get him going. If he hits and gets going, great. If not, maybe sit him.

 

[djcon57]

I mentioned it above - Bell, whatever the reason, looks like he is thinking when he is out there. He is a beat late on everything.

It's funny, because I thought the exact *opposite* would be a problem this year - where as soon as the ball hit his finger tips, he would let it fly.

Instead, it's like he's trying to read the D and sometimes almost freezes and picks up his dribble too early.

And I agree with you, let it fly on that hand off and let's run it a few times for Chris early in the game to see if we can get him going. If he hits and gets going, great. If not, maybe sit him.

Not to mention I’d rather he miss a 3 vs dribble into nowhere or throw a pass out of bounds. And once every couple games, he’ll get hot and start knocking them down. Great!

 

[007]

Yeah...and if Bell is going to accept the ball off that screen, he needs to shoot the 3 from the handoff at least a couple of times, otherwise what's the point.

Part of the point is to get his defender moving. They are trying to set up the action off of those hand offs. But, I agree that if Bell did shoot off of those hand offs, or while curling off of pin down screens, it would help a lot. I picture Buddy and Rautins - both were exceptionally good at this.

 

[djcon57]

Part of the point is to get his defender moving. They are trying to set up the action off of those hand offs. But, I agree that if Bell did shoot off of those hand offs, or while curling off of pin down screens, it would help a lot. I picture Buddy and Rautins - both were exceptionally good at this.

I get that, but if he starts shooting that, It'll open up things for Eddie on the roll. He appears to be resigned to "well, I'm being guarded so I need to pass this off ASAP"

 

[007]

I mentioned it above - Bell, whatever the reason, looks like he is thinking when he is out there. He is a beat late on everything.

You’ve made lots of good observations in this thread, Mike.

To me, the issue is not as much physical or skill related for Bell. It is what’s going on inside his head combined with lapses in concentration. I think there is more to this story off the court.

Part of reason it isn’t as simple as “sitting his ass” is that staff knows what Bell is capable of skill wise and how much he can impact the game when on. Maybe they are trading off the bad games and deficiencies for the times when he does goes off?

 

[007]

I get that, but if he starts shooting that, It'll open up things for Eddie on the roll. He appears to be resigned to "well, I'm being guarded so I need to pass this off ASAP"

Or he is running the set as designed? part of the benefit of Bell is that he will create more opportunities for Lampkin because the defense needs to always account for where he is on the floor. Granted, we haven’t seen much of that yet.

 

[djcon57]

Or he is running the set as designed? part of the benefit of Bell is that he will create more opportunities for Lampkin because the defense needs to always account for where he is on the floor. Granted, we haven’t seen much of that yet.

If the set is designed for Bell to be handling the ball at the top of the 3 point line, it's a poor design.

There was one specific play he gunned it at JJ and it was almost a turnover. Either stick Bell in the corner or he needs to shoot those handoffs, imo

 

[RF2044]

I can't discern what we're trying to do offensively. It's not just that we're not executing, I honestly couldn't describe what our strategy and approach is.

I'm sure the folks here smarter about Xs and Os can, but I can't for the life of me. It seems like barely controlled chaos every time down the floor.

Simple [and not in a good way].

The lack of offensive cohesion is attributable to not having a legit point guard. Carlos has flopped thus far, and doesn't appear like he's going to play his way out of the tailspin.

So in response, we turn to JJ -- who is a competent enough ball handler, but isn't a play maker.

So what are we trying to do offensively? Best as I can tell from games, we swing the ball around the perimeter ineffectually, letting the shot clock tick down, forcing someone to eventually take a contested / low percentage shot from the perimeter.

Indicative of poor coaching, also, IMO.

 

[007]

If the set is designed for Bell to be handling the ball at the top of the 3 point line, it's a poor design.

There was one specific play he gunned it at JJ and it was almost a turnover. Either stick Bell in the corner or he needs to shoot those handoffs, imo

Lots of teams, including Texas last night, run similar action up top to get into their motion offense. The goal is to get the defense moving from side to side and start to chase. It's the action after those initial handoffs, and what is happening on the weak side, that people need to pay more attention to if they want to understand what the staff is trying to do. Too many here overreact to what the think is going on - worse still is the crowd who don't think they are running an offense at all.

 

[djcon57]

Lots of teams, including Texas last night, run similar action up top to get into their motion offense. The goal is to get the defense moving from side to side and start to chase. It's the action after those initial handoffs, and what is happening on the weak side, that people need to pay more attention to if they want to understand what the staff is trying to do. Too many here overreact to what the think is going on - worse still is the crowd who don't think they are running an offense at all.

I specifically complained last night that it was asinine that our weakside was Carlos standing in the corner waiting to shoot a 3. So yeah I know what they are trying to do. I disagree with some of it.

 

[littlereg]

I specifically complained last night that it was asinine that our weakside was Carlos standing in the corner waiting to shoot a 3. So yeah I know what they are trying to do. I disagree with some of it.

I had something longer typed out but it’s not even worth it, in short I agree except I disagree with most of what they’re trying to do not just some. If they looked at this unit and thought this game plan offensively was gonna be successful, I am very very worried.

Running the offense thru Eddie is one of the few things I agree with, and that has been a positive. One thing he really needs to improve on is to realize the double when it comes because it’s been an almost automatic turnover when they run a double team at him especially as he’s dug deeper into the baseline corner.

 

[007]

I specifically complained last night that it was asinine that our weakside was Carlos standing in the corner waiting to shoot a 3. So yeah I know what they are trying to do. I disagree with some of it.

Yeah, I hear you. Lots of head scratching moments regarding execution. Carlos has to be able create in this offense off the dribble to force rotations and then find the open man. Big question mark here.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The fans aren’t the ones who apparently decided that Bell is expected to be a 5 tool player this season.

He’s a shooter. That should be his role. And if he’s not shooting well… shrug.

I don’t think anyone expected 5 tools from Bell. Just a bit more commitment to rebounding and d. After all, it’s in his own best interests.

Red seems to look at Bell the way JB regarded Buddy. Either one could be 1-7 to start a game, but they‘re your best shooter and could get hot and hit the next 4 of 6. You never know when that hotness is going to hit, so you keep ignoring the last miss. It’s like when there’s a power outage. I could go out and do stuff, but usually, I just wait it out, hoping it’s a momentary thing. Sometimes it becomes 8 hours. But you don’t know until you get there.