Inside Syracuse’s rough off-season: How portal misses and a lack of NIL money led to a lost year

[Scooch]

Appreciate the information! Helps bring clarity to the situation.

I will say I agree in a perfect world he would’ve fell in line and followed the wanted protocols of SU. But, when a donor does not want to, we should probably have other options that can cater to individuals who do not want to fit into that box. In the end, it’s their money and they are the customer. I cannot be upset with AW wanting to do it more “his way”. So again sales 101, find a common ground where it still feels like it’s his way would’ve been worth a try (maybe they did try?)

I guess just as a frustrated fan, I still feel like we could’ve found a way in a perfect world to work out a deal, but maybe not. All speculation on my part.

There are literally many dozens of people who have donated more to SU for facilities and NIL than Weitsman.

If the guy actually donated a ton of money that’d be one thing. But he literally didn’t. He tricked out a suite and did some small scale NIL deals. But everyone knows his name because gaining fame was literally his top priority.

There are guys no one has heard of who did more for SU football just last year than AW ever did. By a mile.

 

[kcsu]

Utah just fired their coach, because he failed to make the NCAA tournament in his first three years (this is his fourth).

He's 15-12 this year, at time of termination.

Fourth season is most likely how it will play out for Red. I don't see SU eating much of a buyout.

 

[kcsu]

The Sub Standard newpaper is so trash and one sided with all there reporting. It's like they put these writers in there to push certain narratives and that's it. Not even with just sports lol.

Just like when they broke the infractions story.

 

[NKR1978]

Well we have been told we are better off this year with NIL compared to last year. The other fact is fans don’t want to hear about NIL when literally every local media member and a lot of insiders literally said we were going to be better than last year and make the tournament. Now suddenly when we suck everyone’s done a 180.

SU media seemed to play this team up. But JB's last recruiting class was the greatest ever. They've been lying to us for a long time. This is just another bit of gaslighting from SU.

 

[RF2044]

Fourth season is most likely how it will play out for Red. I don't see SU eating much of a buyout.

Great -- well, given that he lacks the aptitude required to win at the P4 level, I hope the SU administration enjoys playing basketball games in front of 5K fans.

Because that would be the consequence of a fourth year. The KenPom / NET data shows how bad things are.

No amount of NIL will be sufficient to overcome Red being a terrible coach.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We’ve lost our three best returning players the last three years. That’s a major problem.

More reason to replace Red.

 

[phil77]

Interesting quote from Val Ackerman, Commish of the Big East, on John Ourand's podcast the other day...

“Right now, the revenue-sharing model allows opt-in by the non-defending conferences. All of our schools are going to opt in to the model. That’s been established for our league,” she said. “I think, in other leagues, there’s still questions about … whether certain schools are in and certain schools are out. So I think you may see realignment on the basis of who’s opting in and who isn’t.”

When I keep beating the drum about SU needing to recognize the looming player compensation inflation, this is precisely what I'm talking about.

The Big East schools are opting in to the $20.5M payment model and don't have Power 4 football to worry about. They're clearly going to put the majority of that money towards men's hoops.

SU's gonna need more than $1 million for their next Center. And a helluva lot more than that for a good PG.

Correct that is always going to be a problem here. There are always going to be teams with bigger pockets while our pockets won't be empty we will never be first at the table. That is why I keep banging the drum we can't miss on coaching and coaching will be so important for schools like ours that are in the 25-50 range for NIL which is where we will probably land. So the deciding factor between all those schools will be coaching and that is the one thing we keep ignoring.

Great you brought our money up to average our coach is still bottom of the P4 coaches it isn't going to matter.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We’ve lost our three best returning players the last three years. That’s a major problem.

Yet quite a few people will say that they were inconsequential players and at least one was recruited over.

 

[phil77]

Our problem goes way beyond Red being an inept coach. If we don’t figure out NIL and we’re not able to get a donor or two with an open wallet, a top tier coach cannot help us. Sadly, I don’t see the show that is SU basketball ending any time soon.

I agree our problems are deeper than our coach but that is where our problems start full stop.

-He can't in-game coach
-He can't coach offense
-He can't coach defense
-He wasn't prepared for the offseason

Most people get fired for that sort of incompetence.

Regardless of money that was all on Red. It has been said Red got the money he asked for. Wasn't the booster's fault Red didn't ask for more because he wasn't prepared.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We will soon find out where we stand in basketball. If SU can’t keep Freeman on board, you can kiss the program good bye. If money is the determining factor with Freeman leaving we’re toast.

I don’t think Freeman leaving would be because of money.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Fourth season is most likely how it will play out for Red. I don't see SU eating much of a buyout.

Not knowing the contract situation I would hope it would be year 3. I have little confidence in Red and staff improving next year but I’ll wait to see what this off season brings. I would prefer to get rid of him now quite frankly because I don’t see any upside to him. I like Red, played golf with him but he doesn’t seem like a head coach at a P4 program. I felt like he was a little introverted which really doesn’t support what is needed in a HC during the NIL era. I liked Red over GMAC and thought he would be successful but I was clearly wrong.

I think the further and faster we can get away from JB and his legacy (he should have been canned after second violation) the better we will be. Outside blood will bring fresh ideas to the program on what is needed into today’s landscape to be successful. We just don’t have that now. Im Honestly worried about our ability to hire decent assistants and bring in decent portal players not because of $$$ but because I think our program is terrible. Bad culture and development, unless we are the high bidder why would someone want to come here. Melo? Maybe, playing time perhaps, #1 party school it helps. I don’t see it, handlers and agents talk, I think we have an enormous hole to dig ourselves out of.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Fourth season is most likely how it will play out for Red. I don't see SU eating much of a buyout.

No disrespect, but I doubt that. I highly doubt next year has enough improvement to warrant a 4th year. As I previously posted, I predict the hole is too big for him to dig out of. I fear he will be doing a total rebuild in Year 3 without any building blocks.

 

[Newhouser]

My fear is how does SU define "winning"? If we go 21-14 every year we are winning 2/3rds of our games. Is that winning? IMO it won't be to our fanbase. We need to be 25-10 to really be back to Cuse BBall.

I don't think SU is committed to being the latter team, and thinks people will blindly follow the former. People showed up when we had 21-14 type teams at the end of the JB era because of 1. JB and 2. our prior recent history. With both of those gone, 21-14 won't get people to show up IMO.

I do not think SU is committed to being that 25-10 team. They will spend for the 21-14 team and then wonder why we are not 25-10. At the same time they will not act like a 25-10 team when it comes to holding the HC accountable.

The AD would love 21-14;with a home upset with minimal expense. We aren't committed to being big time because the powers that be know we don't have an endless supply of booste/fan cash.

 

[RF2044]

We will soon find out where we stand in basketball. If SU can’t keep Freeman on board, you can kiss the program good bye. If money is the determining factor with Freeman leaving we’re toast. So you recruit a good player, but you can never retain them. How much will it cost to go out and get a replacement in the portal? You’re not keeping Donnie at $150,000. I doubt JJ will return at the current $300,000. He will get offered a lot more than that. It’s not just going into the portal to get players, you also need to retain the ones you want to keep. These two guys have proved they can play in the ACC, unlike the guys we brought in from the portal this year.

What if NIL isn't the determining factor?

What if Freeman bails because he and his family have determined that the poor coaching / state of our program is harming his draft stock beyond repair?

Money was never the determining factor -- he came here, taking a lot less money than he would have gotten had he opted to go to other schools. He chose to come here because of his connections to Straughn / TTO, and because his camp was on-board with Red taking over.

The problem is, he got here and things are completely dysfunctional. We are having a historically bad season, and his draft stock -- which began the year on the fringe of the lottery -- has now tanked to the point where he probably wouldn't even be a second round pick or drafted at all.

His camp is going to leave not over a couple of bucks, but because they recognize that Red and this staff are not the group that will help their kid get to the NBA. He came here wanting / expecting to be a one-and-done, and now he's staring at not getting drafted, and they want to get him somewhere where he'll not only get good coaching, but exposure.

 

[oldpinepoint]

What if NIL isn't the determining factor?

What if Freeman bails because he and his family have determined that the poor coaching / state of our program is harming his draft stock beyond repair?

Money was never the determining factor -- he came here, taking a lot less money than he would have gotten had he opted to go to other schools. He chose to come here because of his connections to Straughn / TTO, and because his camp was on-board with Red taking over.

The problem is, he got here and things are BAD. We are having a historically bad season, and his draft stock -- which began the year on the fringe of the lottery -- has now tanked to the point where he probably wouldn't even be a second round pick or drafted at all.

His camp is going to leave not over a couple of bucks, but because they recognize that Red and this staff are not the group that will help their kid get to the NBA. He came here wanting / expecting to be a one-and-done, and now he's staring at not getting drafted, and they want to get him somewhere where he'll not only get good coaching, but exposure.

Excellent post

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don’t think Freeman leaving would be because of money.

Don’t kid yourself. Donnie likes SU and the coaching staff.

 

[Irishsecra1]

Can't like this enough. Like football was for so many years, the 'woe is me' mentality has taken over hoops. "Not enough NIL" , "needs more time to get his guys in."

We saw with Fran that a coach with connections, buy-in, and most importantly, a plan can overcome obstacles at SU at regain prominence. It has to be a well thought out, executed plan. NIL, roster retention, player development, player acquisition.

Frankly it's embarrassing and shocking for Red to be entering Year 3 without these things in place previously, and is as big a red flag as the on-court results.

Makes me wonder if Red really thought he was the coach in waiting.
If he believed that, wouldn't he have put together a detailed plan of what he wanted to do?
Seems like he thought he could change the defense to MTM but never considered if he had the talent to implement it. Thus, we have one of the worst defenses in all of basketball.
And literally has had no other ideas since!

When Gerry took over Siena, he had a detailed plan supposedly. He knew what kind of player he wanted, what type of defensive identity he wanted (smothering man to man defense), what kind of culture he wanted. And you can see that already.
As he has said, Doty is the poster child for what he wants his program to be.

Which player on SU is the poster child for what Red wants the program to be.
The question is hard to answer because none of us knows what Red's vision is.

 

[Millhouse]

You can come with me to the melo center to see for yourself. They have 2 treadmills that work in the smallest workout room I’ve ever seen

So both the men’s and women’s teams need treadmills? How many? Why doesn’t someone just use a purchasing card to buy them?

Like, this is fascinating to me because it’s either gross incompetence or someone is kinda fibbing.

This doesn't fill me with desire to give them money

 

[Scooch]

This doesn't fill me with desire to give them money

How about a guest pass to Planet Fitness? Seems like they need it.

 

[Scooch]

Makes me wonder if Red really thought he was the coach in waiting.
If he believed that, wouldn't he have put together a detailed plan of what he wanted to do?
Seems like he thought he could change the defense to MTM but never considered if he had the talent to implement it. Thus, we have one of the worst defenses in all of basketball.
And literally has had no other ideas since!

When Gerry took over Siena, he had a detailed plan supposedly. He knew what kind of player he wanted, what type of defensive identity he wanted (smothering man to man defense), what kind of culture he wanted. And you can see that already.
As he has said, Doty is the poster child for what he wants his program to be.

Which player on SU is the poster child for what Red wants the program to be.
The question is hard to answer because none of us knows what Red's vision is.

The bolded is probably why the rumors were that JB preferred GMac to Red as a successor.

 

[sufan59]

Don’t kid yourself. Donnie likes SU and the coaching staff.

I’m sure Donnie does like SU and the coaching staff. Does Donnie after a year, like our coaching staff to coach him moving forward granted we continue compensating him to his market value considering the NBA option won’t be an option this off season? Through recruiting and other things, I’m sure there are many college basketball players out there that like our coaching staff and SU. Just we aren’t willing to pay their market value or the liking them has to do with them personally and not in a coach-player relationship.

 

[Chip]

How about a guest pass to Planet Fitness? Seems like they need it.

The $10 a month is fine. But then that annual $35 hits and you think wait, am I even using this gym?

Sorry, I moved from donation to personal in just a few words there.

 

[Full_Rebar]

People need to stop pretending that Weitsman was a big donor. As it was pointed out, he bought he was giving less to the program than guys like Lobdell. That 100k he gave Siena might match what he did before he walked away from SU.

He's nothing like Repole at St John's who is pumping 7 figures into Pitino's program. Red might not be the right HC but the problems at SU lie above his head.

 

[MrHouse]

The bolded is probably why the rumors were that JB preferred GMac to Red as a successor.

JB made Autry his Asst. Head Coach and not Gerry, so I don’t believe those rumors for a second.

 

[NKR1978]

We will soon find out where we stand in basketball. If SU can’t keep Freeman on board, you can kiss the program good bye. If money is the determining factor with Freeman leaving we’re toast. So you recruit a good player, but you can never retain them. How much will it cost to go out and get a replacement in the portal? You’re not keeping Donnie at $150,000. I doubt JJ will return at the current $300,000. He will get offered a lot more than that. It’s not just going into the portal to get players, you also need to retain the ones you want to keep. These two guys have proved they can play in the ACC, unlike the guys we brought in from the portal this year.

Notwithstanding money, why would any decent player want to play for this program? If we were in the pre-NIL era, there would be a good chance Freeman would bolt to a better program.