Interesting D rankings

[kingottoiii]

Found this on Nunes. It makes our D look like a big problem last year. SU was ranked #92. For comparison the other BE teams (due to awful Os in the conference) were all ranked significantly higher. This is not perfect as it doesn't take SOS into account or field position.

Cincy #11
RU #12
Pitt #27
UConn #32
Louisville #43
USF #44
WV #54

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

That says it all.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Shafer's defense is feast or famine, I think we all knew that when he was hired. Experienced defensive backfield and a front that can apply pressure on the QB (with Shafer's schemes which put a priority on ALWAYS attacking) this defense can be a monster. Perfectly built for the spread offenses so prevalent today. If you have a weak secondary and a front that can't create pressure consistently and it can get ripped apart quickly.

From wikipedia (Shafer on defense):
"We're an attack defense; scheme is overrated. All schemes can work if you tackle and keep the ball in front. We're an aggressive defense, force the offense's hand. We're going to stop the run on early downs and force the pass. We'll get situations where when we are forcing the pass, we hit the quarterback, forcing him to throw the ball into coverage.

Flip side to that is if you can't get to the QB and your secondary can only cover for four to six seconds, you're going to run into BIG problems. That was exactly SU's problem last year. I think this defense goes the way the secondary goes. Their ability to cover is going to tell the tale this year.

 

[kingottoiii]

Flip side to that is if you can't get to the QB and your secondary can only cover for four to six seconds, you're going to run into BIG problems. That was exactly SU's problem last year. I think this defense goes the way the secondary goes. Their ability to cover is going to tell the tale this year.

I think it is all on the front 7 not the DBs. You can have Revis, Bailey, Reed, and Polamalu out there and we will get beat through the air the way we got pressure last year. We had plenty of sacks when we blitzed. That is all fine and dandy but when we didn't (majority of pass plays) there wasn't even token pressure. I like the talent we have in the secondary a lot this year. We should have no problem finding four guys out of Reddish, Desir, Lyn, Anderson, George, Morgan, Eskridge, Wilkes, and Shamarko. IMO this unit is by far the best on the team. However who can only cover a guy for so long. Which is why we allowed 62.4% of passes to be completed last year (86th in the nation). That is waaaay too easy. I am very worried we are in store for more of the same. Especially since our DEs are converted DTs.

 

[bevosu]

I thought the secondary was pretty bad last year. Their tackling was poor.

On any 3rd and distance you could almost always count on a pass coverage fail.

Not saying there weren't problems with the other D units, but I found the defensive backfield particularly frustrating.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I think it is all on the front 7 not the DBs. You can have Revis, Bailey, Reed, and Polamalu out there and we will get beat through the air the way we got pressure last year. We had plenty of sacks when we blitzed. That is all fine and dandy but when we didn't (majority of pass plays) there wasn't even token pressure. I like the talent we have in the secondary a lot this year. We should have no problem finding four guys out of Reddish, Desir, Lyn, Anderson, George, Morgan, Eskridge, Wilkes, and Shamarko. IMO this unit is by far the best on the team. However who can only cover a guy for so long. Which is why we allowed 62.4% of passes to be completed last year (86th in the nation). That is waaaay too easy. I am very worried we are in store for more of the same. Especially since our DEs are converted DTs.

I agree, but I think blame lies with both units, and a scheme that allowed it to happen. Shafer's scheme is fantastic when you have an experienced secondary. With one that isn't up to those standards the high risk, high reward nature of his defense tilts towards just high risk. I have hope that the secondary will be much better this year.

 

[dollarbill44]

I thought the secondary was pretty bad last year. Their tackling was poor.

On any 3rd and distance you could almost always count on a pass coverage fail.

Not saying there weren't problems with the other D units, but I found the defensive backfield particularly frustrating.

I felt the biggest problem with the secondary last year was making plays on the ball. There were several long completions against us last year where the DB was step for step with the WR on deep balls only to have the WR go and get the ball. There was a long TD by WVU and more than a couple against Tulane.

On run D, too many times the safeties took bad angles or didn't fill the gap on outside runs which led to some big runs.

We also had too many killer penalties on 3rd and long that turned stalled drives into sustained drives.

I chalk most of it up to a lack of experience last year.

 

[kingottoiii]

I chalk most of it up to a lack of experience last year.

Experience? Phil was a returning starter. Wilkes and Shamarko played plenty the year before (primarily in the Okie). Anderson played as a frosh but missed time the year before. Scott had plenty of experience. Fisher was a former JUCO player. They had more experience than this year's group.

 

[billsin01]

Experience? Phil was a returning starter. Wilkes and Shamarko played plenty the year before (primarily in the Okie). Anderson played as a frosh but missed time the year before. Scott had plenty of experience. Fisher was a former JUCO player. They had more experience than this year's group.

This is a good point. I'd suggest they had a lot of communication break-downs -- that's anecdotal b/c I seem to remember a bunch of big plays with receivers wide open or nobody covering the deep middle, etc. Usually that is attributed to inexperience, but whatever the reason, a more cohesive unit would be an upgrade this year.

 

[billsin01]

Shafer's defense is feast or famine, I think we all knew that when he was hired. Experienced defensive backfield and a front that can apply pressure on the QB (with Shafer's schemes which put a priority on ALWAYS attacking) this defense can be a monster. Perfectly built for the spread offenses so prevalent today. If you have a weak secondary and a front that can't create pressure consistently and it can get ripped apart quickly.

From wikipedia (Shafer on defense):
"We're an attack defense; scheme is overrated. All schemes can work if you tackle and keep the ball in front. We're an aggressive defense, force the offense's hand. We're going to stop the run on early downs and force the pass. We'll get situations where when we are forcing the pass, we hit the quarterback, forcing him to throw the ball into coverage.

Flip side to that is if you can't get to the QB and your secondary can only cover for four to six seconds, you're going to run into BIG problems. That was exactly SU's problem last year. I think this defense goes the way the secondary goes. Their ability to cover is going to tell the tale this year.

This is a good post but I would suggest that it's not really feast or famine at least in terms of personnel. We haven't had a disruptive pass rush in any year of Shafer's regime, yet we had a good defense (remarkably improved) for two years prior to last year.

Injuries and personnel certainly played a role. I like S. Thomas but he wasn't the same player last year. P. Thomas, though a bit inconsistent, was pretty good and he battled some injuries IIRC. We had a walk-on (Anene), a true frosh recruited as a WR (Davis), another true frosh (Lynch) and a slight JUCO transfer (Diabate) playing plenty of snaps at LB and I think Spruill battled some injuries as well. Then there was Chandler Jones.

Injuries are part of the game, but I tend to think that unit last year was about as thin and young (in certain spots) as it gets. Add in the injuries and things were bound to get a little ugly.

 

[dollarbill44]

Experience? Phil was a returning starter. Wilkes and Shamarko played plenty the year before (primarily in the Okie). Anderson played as a frosh but missed time the year before. Scott had plenty of experience. Fisher was a former JUCO player. They had more experience than this year's group.

You completely skipped over the LBs (2 of the significant players were freshman) who were constantly out of position on running plays which made the errors of the secondary more glaring.

DL also had some inexperience. JUCO doesn't count any more than prep school, imo.

Phil sucked against the run - his angles were often atrocious that allowed guys to get outside. And he dropped more than his fair share of INTs as well (huge one against RU). Anderson is the guy I remember most as sticking with his man on deep balls only to fall down or get twisted up when the ball arrived, allowing the WR to make the big play.

Shamarko was pretty solid all around.

Maybe I should have used the word immature instead of inexperienced, but there were still some pretty green guys out there who I expect to be better this year.

 

[kingottoiii]

@$bill - I thought you were talking just 2ndary.

@bills - I thought Shamarko was at his best before the injury. He seemed to be on every play. When he came back he was no where near the same.

 

[billsin01]

@bills - I thought Shamarko was at his best before the injury. He seemed to be on every play. When he came back he was no where near the same.

True, I should be clearer. I love him as a player, just thought he had some issues coming back.

 

[OrangePA]

Found this on Nunes. It makes our D look like a big problem last year. SU was ranked #92. For comparison the other BE teams (due to awful Os in the conference) were all ranked significantly higher. This is not perfect as it doesn't take SOS into account or field position.

Cincy #11
RU #12
Pitt #27
UConn #32
Louisville #43
USF #44
WV #54

Defense was the big problem last year. It was a bigger problem than the offense.

 

[Crusty]

What about the new DB coach - Donnie Henderson? Hopefully, he can add something.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

This is a good post but I would suggest that it's not really feast or famine at least in terms of personnel. We haven't had a disruptive pass rush in any year of Shafer's regime, yet we had a good defense (remarkably improved) for two years prior to last year.

Injuries and personnel certainly played a role. I like S. Thomas but he wasn't the same player last year. P. Thomas, though a bit inconsistent, was pretty good and he battled some injuries IIRC. We had a walk-on (Anene), a true frosh recruited as a WR (Davis), another true frosh (Lynch) and a slight JUCO transfer (Diabate) playing plenty of snaps at LB and I think Spruill battled some injuries as well. Then there was Chandler Jones.

Injuries are part of the game, but I tend to think that unit last year was about as thin and young (in certain spots) as it gets. Add in the injuries and things were bound to get a little ugly.

True, but I don't think it's as much about a disruptive pass rush, as it is confusing the QB with the look, and sending people from many different angles. Even pressure (minus the sack) will screw up the timing that's so important with a spread offense. Screwing up that timing in the first few seconds is enough to make the plays bust. Shafer was great at doing this, and the defense two years ago even without a Dwight Freeney type player was in the backfield a whole lot, and disrupted a lot of plays.

I would also point out that while last year's group of secondary players were not necessarily inexperienced (although injuries decimated them in the middle of the year) they were immature, and not great at playing straight up on top end receivers. That and a lack of aggressiveness up front led teams to exploit the secondary down the field. I don't think it's a one or the other thing here, I think both units made mistakes, and didn't play the scheme as well as they could. I also think Shafer didn't make enough adjustments for the type of players he had.

 

[OttoMets]

You completely skipped over the LBs (2 of the significant players were freshman) who were constantly out of position on running plays which made the errors of the secondary more glaring.

DL also had some inexperience. JUCO doesn't count any more than prep school, imo.

Phil sucked against the run - his angles were often atrocious that allowed guys to get outside. And he dropped more than his fair share of INTs as well (huge one against RU). Anderson is the guy I remember most as sticking with his man on deep balls only to fall down or get twisted up when the ball arrived, allowing the WR to make the big play.

Shamarko was pretty solid all around.

Maybe I should have used the word immature instead of inexperienced, but there were still some pretty green guys out there who I expect to be better this year.

Yeah, Phil may have been a third-year guy, but (with all due respect) he was always going to be a liability in the backfield. Bad angles, shoddy tackling (more accurately, spearing and missing), and concentration lapses. He seemed to always be playing a bit too fast for his abilities.

Throw in an injured Shamarko, a limited Kevin Scott, and inexperienced and physically overmatched linebackers, and it explains our difficulties. Should be improved this year, and an improved defensive line will make them look that much better.

 

[JoeSU]

IMO a lot of the defensive problems last year had to do with the weakness of the offense and ST. Too many 3-and-outs kept the D on the field way too long. ST consistently yielded horrible field position. How many opposition drives started near midfield?

 

[billsin01]

Defense was the big problem last year. It was a bigger problem than the offense.

really? We scored 21 against URI, 16 in a double OT game vs. RU, and 21 or less in each of our last five games. Our 36-point outburst in OT vs. Wake came on less than 300 yards total offense (most of which came in one quarter and OT). We failed to reach 370 yards of total offense in either of our 30+ point efforts vs. Tulane and Toledo.

Basically our offense was a tremendous all-around effort vs. WVU and a few solid if unspectacular efforts otherwise.

Which was worse -- our defense or our offense? I don't know, probably specials. Regardless, they both need to improve and there's no point in trying to rank which was "better."

 

[bnoro]

Definitely need a better effort from the front 7 this year. Too much time for a QB to pick apart the secondary.

Need a big effort from the secondary this year. Too much separation to let the front 7 get pressure.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Last years team wasn't really that good at anything, let's just be honest and put it in the rear view mirror. Every unit played awful at times. It was a little bit of luck that they were ever 5 and 2. In a 12 game season things catch up to you and they were what they were, a sub 500.

 

[dollarbill44]

Which was worse -- our defense or our offense? I don't know, probably specials.

I take it you aren't a fan of the other team starting at their own 45 after every kickoff (unless it went OB of course)?

 

[OrangeFoo]

My #1 biggest frustration last year was the consistent ability of our D to give up a 1st on 3rd and longs. I felt more comfortable on 3rd and 2 then I did on 3rd and 15. I would love to see the percentages but it seems like we had the worst 3rd down conversion rate on D in history last year. We could never ever get off the field. That combined with the other team consistently starting at the 45 yard line made for some fun games.

 

[OrangePA]

really? We scored 21 against URI, 16 in a double OT game vs. RU, and 21 or less in each of our last five games. Our 36-point outburst in OT vs. Wake came on less than 300 yards total offense (most of which came in one quarter and OT). We failed to reach 370 yards of total offense in either of our 30+ point efforts vs. Tulane and Toledo.

Basically our offense was a tremendous all-around effort vs. WVU and a few solid if unspectacular efforts otherwise.

Which was worse -- our defense or our offense? I don't know, probably specials. Regardless, they both need to improve and there's no point in trying to rank which was "better."

Yeah, the defense was a bigger problem than the offense.

And that was not surprising since we had seven new starters on defense.

The offense was not a dynamo, but the D was the bigger problem.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Looking forward to the defense in 2012 which will play closer to 2010 than 2009 or 2011.

Improved ST would help, and so would an offense that moves the chains and puts up points. Going into last season everyone knew that the defense would struggle for a number of reasons including the young LBs and lack of experienced depth in the secondary.

I'm more confident that the defense will improve than the other 2 phases because we've already seen it in 2010 and really we saw it in 2009 in comparison to the GRob years. I'm excited to see what the offense will do this year, and I remain optimistic. The ST can only improve, and I also think the improved numbers or quality depth will begin to show on STs.