Is being as good as Oregon State too much to ask?

[Scooch]

Much of my wife's family lives in Oregon. They're all Oregon State grads, and her uncle has been a season ticket holder for 25+ years.

Since Mike Riley took over for Dennis Erickson in 2003 they're 69-49, with 6 bowl appearances, 3 top 25 finishes, and 7 appearances in the top 25 at some point in the season.

Oregon State is an agricultural school (no joke, my cousins-in-law are farmers) located in the middle of nowhere. The state has a population about the same as Connecticut, and produces a small amount of top-tier FBS recruits. OSU's athletics program is entirely overshadowed by a much more well-funded, and larger fanbased program at UO.

And yet somehow this school has managed to win 28 more games than SU in the past 9 1/2 years and is currently the #8 team in the country.

I'm a pretty reasonable fan, I don't expect to see SU win a national title, ever. I don't expect us to be a perennial top 15 team, ever. But I do expect more than the raging dumpster fire that this program has been for 10 years and counting.

If someone can explain to me why we shouldn't expect to at least be as good as Oregon Freakin' State, I'm all ears.

I'm sure I'll be told that all we have to do is limit turnovers.

:bang:

 

[NineOneSeven]

Much of my wife's family lives in Oregon. They're all Oregon State grads, and her uncle has been a season ticket holder for 25+ years.

Since Mike Riley took over for Dennis Erickson in 2003 they're 69-49, with 6 bowl appearances, 3 top 25 finishes, and 7 appearances in the top 25 at some point in the season.

Oregon State is an agricultural school (no joke, my cousins-in-law are farmers) located in the middle of nowhere. The state has a population about the same as Connecticut, and produces a small amount of top-tier FBS recruits. OSU's athletics program is entirely overshadowed by a much more well-funded, and larger fanbased program at UO.

And yet somehow this school has managed to win 28 more games than SU in the past 9 1/2 years and is currently the #8 team in the country.

I'm a pretty reasonable fan, I don't expect to see SU win a national title, ever. I don't expect us to be a perennial top 15 team, ever. But I do expect more than the raging dumpster fire that this program has been for 10 years and counting.

If someone can explain to me why we shouldn't expect to at least be as good as Oregon Freakin' State, I'm all ears.

I'm sure I'll be told that all we have to do is limit turnovers.

:bang:

Nassib's happy-feet.

 

[Scooch]

Nassib's happy-feet.

Right, that accounts for the 28 win differential.

I should've known.

 

[SmilinBob]

Some Beaver fan made a deal with the devil in 03 and said if they could switch records with Syracuse he'd agree to be damned forever.

 

[GoSU96]

Much of my wife's family lives in Oregon. They're all Oregon State grads, and her uncle has been a season ticket holder for 25+ years.

Since Mike Riley took over for Dennis Erickson in 2003 they're 69-49, with 6 bowl appearances, 3 top 25 finishes, and 7 appearances in the top 25 at some point in the season.

Oregon State is an agricultural school (no joke, my cousins-in-law are farmers) located in the middle of nowhere. The state has a population about the same as Connecticut, and produces a small amount of top-tier FBS recruits. OSU's athletics program is entirely overshadowed by a much more well-funded, and larger fanbased program at UO.

And yet somehow this school has managed to win 28 more games than SU in the past 9 1/2 years and is currently the #8 team in the country.

I'm a pretty reasonable fan, I don't expect to see SU win a national title, ever. I don't expect us to be a perennial top 15 team, ever. But I do expect more than the raging dumpster fire that this program has been for 10 years and counting.

If someone can explain to me why we shouldn't expect to at least be as good as Oregon Freakin' State, I'm all ears.

I'm sure I'll be told that all we have to do is limit turnovers.

:bang:

Are you talking about the Oregon St. team that was 8-5, 5-7, and 3-9 the three seasons prior to this one?

Looks like they didn't go chasing results and stuck with the program.

 

[Millhouse]

they had a sophomore in 2010 with a 127 rating.

the next year a freshman jumped over him. they had a long year.

2012, that freshman was putting up good numbers, gets hurt and a different backup came in and did great last game.

we had a sophomore in 2010 with a 124 rating who's still playing in 2012.

more stats.

I took the top 30 passer ratings from 2011 and grabbed that same players rating from 2010.

15 matches. 2 of them had a rating below 140. Harris and Russell Wilson. wilson might show that coaching matters quite a bit.

The top 30 average from 2011 is 157. for QBs with data in both years (must take most of the snaps, must have a certain amt of attempts), the average was 149.

you don't have to wait forever to get good qb play. Guys are prepared now coming out of high school.

moral of the story from oregon state is if you're not getting good qb play, try someone else, it might work out.

 

[Scooch]

Are you talking about the Oregon St. team that was 8-5, 5-7, and 3-9 the three seasons prior to this one?

Looks like they didn't go chasing results and stuck with the program.

Use selective stats much?

Those seasons were pre-dated by 9-4, 9-4 and 10-4 from the same coach.

It's a lot easier to stay the course with a guy who has already proven he can win 9-10 games, eh?

 

[Chip]

Are you talking about the Oregon St. team that was 8-5, 5-7, and 3-9 the three seasons prior to this one?

Looks like they didn't go chasing results and stuck with the program.

Their QB took lumps as a freshman in their 3-9 season that followed their 5-7 season that followed their 8-5 season. Our QB is a 5th year senior, 3 year starter for our upcoming 3-9 season that's following a 5-7 season (where he was the starter) that's following our 8-5 season (where he was the starter). Our coach, who hates turnovers even though this QB leads to a lot of turnovers, seems terrified to learn what's behind him. Backup had to come in for one play on 3rd and long and we just had him run forward for 2 yards to setup a 50 yard field goal.

Other than that, everything else is probably the same, so I look forward to the hot start next year.

 

[MikeSU02]

Much of my wife's family lives in Oregon. They're all Oregon State grads, and her uncle has been a season ticket holder for 25+ years.

Since Mike Riley took over for Dennis Erickson in 2003 they're 69-49, with 6 bowl appearances, 3 top 25 finishes, and 7 appearances in the top 25 at some point in the season.

Oregon State is an agricultural school (no joke, my cousins-in-law are farmers) located in the middle of nowhere. The state has a population about the same as Connecticut, and produces a small amount of top-tier FBS recruits. OSU's athletics program is entirely overshadowed by a much more well-funded, and larger fanbased program at UO.

And yet somehow this school has managed to win 28 more games than SU in the past 9 1/2 years and is currently the #8 team in the country.

I'm a pretty reasonable fan, I don't expect to see SU win a national title, ever. I don't expect us to be a perennial top 15 team, ever. But I do expect more than the raging dumpster fire that this program has been for 10 years and counting.

If someone can explain to me why we shouldn't expect to at least be as good as Oregon Freakin' State, I'm all ears.

I'm sure I'll be told that all we have to do is limit turnovers.

:bang:

The answer is no. And if SU isn't willing to aspire to be as relevant as Oregon St., SU should just give up football.

 

[Jeepers]

Look at a map with FBS programs and where they are located.

 

[Scooch]

Look at a map with FBS programs and where they are located.

Huh?

 

[GoSU96]

Use selective stats much?

Those seasons were pre-dated by 9-4, 9-4 and 10-4 from the same coach.

It's a lot easier to stay the course with a guy who has already proven he can win 9-10 games, eh?

Oh, so Oregon St. was already pretty good then.

He didn't have to rebuild a program that was one of the worst in D-1 then.

 

[GoSU96]

Their QB took lumps as a freshman in their 3-9 season that followed their 5-7 season that followed their 8-5 season. Our QB is a 5th year senior, 3 year starter for our upcoming 3-9 season that's following a 5-7 season (where he was the starter) that's following our 8-5 season (where he was the starter). Our coach, who hates turnovers even though this QB leads to a lot of turnovers, seems terrified to learn what's behind him. Backup had to come in for one play on 3rd and long and we just had him run forward for 2 yards to setup a 50 yard field goal.

Other than that, everything else is probably the same, so I look forward to the hot start next year.

They aren't stopping at 3 wins this year.

Good lord.

 

[Millhouse]

Oh, so Oregon St. was already pretty good then.

He didn't have to rebuild a program that was one of the worst in D-1 then.

he pointed out that the earlier seasons were also the same coach.

they were horrendous before riley took over. the erickson years in the middle were when riley left for the chargers.

when riley first took over, their prior coach failed miserably

i think marrone can do very well here. he just has to get a qb. and he's used up all my patience on nassib.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_State_Beavers_football

 

[Scooch]

Oh, so Oregon St. was already pretty good then.

He didn't have to rebuild a program that was one of the worst in D-1 then.

So let's talk about this...

SU was one of the worst programs in D-1. Let's accept that as fact.

Somehow Marrone was a good enough coach to take those dregs of humanity and win 6 FBS games including a bowl game, just 2 seasons removed from being one of the worst programs in D-1.

Then, in the 18 games that have followed, he has won 5 games against FBS opponents.

So what's up?

Did he forget how to coach? One would presume no.

Was there a gap in talent that we're struggling through now? If there was a gap in talent that means there *was* talent left over from the GRob era, right? So one of the worst programs in D-1 still had enough talent to win a bowl? It makes no sense.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, Go. I sincerely can't figure out what the hell is going on. Marrone is doing a worse and worse job, results-wise, the more his own recruits are integrated into the program.

 

[Scooch]

he pointed out that the earlier seasons were also the same coach.

they were horrendous before riley took over. the erickson years in the middle were when riley left for the chargers.

when riley first took over, their prior coach failed miserably

i think marrone can do very well here. he just has to get a qb. and he's used up all my patience on nassib.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_State_Beavers_football

Bingo.

Here were the records prior to Riley taking the helm the first time in 1997...

2-9
1-10
4-7
4-7
1-9-1
1-10
1-10

The 4th year post that awful run, with Erickson coaching, they went 11-1. I suspect we're not going to go 11-1 this year. Probably next year either.

But I'm sure our 10-37 stretch was somehow impossibly worse to recover from than OSU's 14-62-1.

 

[Scooch]

They aren't stopping at 3 wins this year.

Good lord.

How on Earth can you say this?

 

[PoppyHart]

It confuses me when people argue for a "stay the course" approach on a guy that will almost certainly have a losing record in 3 out of 4 seasons, yet we happily sacked a guy with 1 losing season in 14 years.

 

[Chip]

They aren't stopping at 3 wins this year.

Good lord.

I don't think so either, but it's certainly a possibility. Will you apologize to the lord if we end up 3-9? Actually, I'm really curious what you will say should it happen.

Dismissing the possibility of road losses to USF, Mizzou and Temple is admirable. But SU fans should know, nothing is guaranteed in road games. And I think we all know that Cincy and Louisville are on the loss watch list.

All of this assumes we win this weekend. If that doesn't happen, duck.

 

[kingottoiii]

Bingo.

But I'm sure our 10-37 stretch was somehow impossibly worse to recover from than OSU's 14-62-1.

There are plenty of other examples as well:

Baylor 15-31 the four years prior to Briles taking over and 12 straight losing seasons.

Cal 9-35 the four years prior to Tedford taking over with one .500 season in the last 8. He turned that into winning seasons in his first 8 years there.

ISU 16-32 the four years prior to Rhodes taking over.

KU 16-29 the four years before Mangino taking over with 6 straight losing seasons.

MD 15-29 the four years before Fridge with 15 straight years over 6 Ws or less.

Wake was 17-28 the four years before Grobe with one winning season in the last 8.

Minny was 14-30 before Mason took over with 11 straight years of 6 Ws or less.

Stanford was 14-31 the four years prior to Harbaugh.

SC was 16-27-1 the four years before Holtz.


All of these guys had more success than Marrone has had thus far.

 

[kingottoiii]

I don't think so either, but it's certainly a possibility. Will you apologize to the lord if we end up 3-9? Actually, I'm really curious what you will say should it happen.

Dismissing the possibility of road losses to USF, Mizzou and Temple is admirable. But SU fans should know, nothing is guaranteed in road games. And I think we all know that Cincy and Louisville are on the loss watch list.

All of this assumes we win this weekend. If that doesn't happen, duck.

He did predict at minium we would win 8 games this year after the NW game.

I will say there is ZERO excuse for losing to UConn or Temple. So I would be very surprised if we end up under 4 Ws. If we do, there is no reason to keep Marrone.

 

[Scooch]

He did predict at minium we would win 8 games this year after the NW game.

I will say there is ZERO excuse for losing to UConn or Temple. So I would be very surprised if we end up under 4 Ws. If we do, there is no reason to keep Marrone.

As much as I've been venting I still wouldn't get rid of Marrone.

But if we can't beat sludge like UConn and Temple I could be talked into it.

 

[GoSU96]

There are plenty of other examples as well:

Baylor 15-31 the four years prior to Briles taking over and 12 straight losing seasons.

Cal 9-35 the four years prior to Tedford taking over with one .500 season in the last 8. He turned that into winning seasons in his first 8 years there.

ISU 16-32 the four years prior to Rhodes taking over.

KU 16-29 the four years before Mangino taking over with 6 straight losing seasons.

MD 15-29 the four years before Fridge with 15 straight years over 6 Ws or less.

Wake was 17-28 the four years before Grobe with one winning season in the last 8.

Minny was 14-30 before Mason took over with 11 straight years of 6 Ws or less.

Stanford was 14-31 the four years prior to Harbaugh.

SC was 16-27-1 the four years before Holtz.


All of these guys had more success than Marrone has had thus far.

10-37 is significantly worse than all but Cal.

Let me know if any of those programs were this across the board awful.

2007 2008
Total Defense 111 102
Rushing 108 102
Passing 102 84
Pass . 109 102
Scoring 104 102
3rd Down Con 109 117
Sacks 118 101
TFL 101 106


2007 2008
Total Offense 114 115
Rushing 118 55
Passing 55 114
Pass . 72 114
Scoring 116 109
3rd Down Con 117 116
Sacks Allowed 117 94

In Robinson's four years they failed to run for more than 100 yds 51% of the time, pass for more than 150 51% of the time, gain more than 300 yds 66% of the time and score more than 20 pts 81% of the time.

I don't think you understand how bad things were, just level of performance that the program was at.

 

[Scooch]

I don't think you understand how bad things were, just level of performance that the program was at.

So address my question then. How could Marrone be such a genius as to get that hapless bunch of players to a bowl win? But then why have we been losing ever since?

 

[SaintTristan]

Oh, so Oregon St. was already pretty good then.

He didn't have to rebuild a program that was one of the worst in D-1 then.

GO, you are being silly. Mike Riley is an excellent coach. He made bowl games in like 6 of his first 7 seasons with the beavers. And prior to taking the b st job he was offered Alabama and Texas tech jobs. He is a stud. He could quit that job at anytime and programs wouldnbe lining up to hire him.

Marrone could quit this job and not a single program would come calling or even know who he was without help from the Internet.

Finally, Riley is playing In the second best comf in the country. Marrone is playing against a bunch of teams that shouldn't be in the bcs, and some of them should be 1AA. Temple and uconn? C'mon