Is Brady now the greatest of all-time?

[Melancer46]

Brady is good but he didn't do ANYTHING special in that game. He threw maybe 5 balls further than 10 yards in the air and two of them were intercepted. As with his past SBs this win is on his defense. You could plug any NFL QB in to that offense last night and get the same success. He was able to take advantage of some terrible match ups and a lot of illegal pick plays. The player picking is not permitted to intentionally make contact with the defender. Again Brady is a smart QB and good but last night was not a legendary performance in any regard. Last night was average at best.

I didn't think he was great last night either, and I think a lot of QBs could have done the same thing in that game, but definitely not just "any QB". None of his passes were really impressive. They just did a great job of managing the game and exploiting mismatches (which credit to Brady, he and the Patriots' staff had to recognize that stuff).

That's why last night's game didn't change my opinion of Brady. At this point in his career, he is not the passer he once was. Good for him that he was able to get the win, but in terms of who is the best QB of all-time, I care more about the prime than I do about the twilight of their respective careers.

 

[Stern]

spygate was the most over rated scandal. They were filming a guy from their sidelines. Every team did that but they all stopped when the league told them to. BB didn't. He deserved to be fined. But it wasn't the big deal people made of it.

If it wasn't a big deal why did they fine Belichick half a million dollars (the largest fine ever imposed on a head coach in league history), take away a 1st round draft pick, and the league destroy all the video tapes? If its not a big deal what were they hiding? Why take away the draft pick?

Please...every team wasn't doing it. That is total made up BS!

 

[cuseincincy]

I totally agree about how championships can sometimes not be the best barometer of greatness due to the randomness of them, so if you look at Brady's winning success over his career, his resume is still untouchable. He has 21 career playoff wins (Montana is a distant 2nd with 16), his career winning percentage is 77% (Staubach is 2nd at 74%).

And he's done all this with good but not great offensive players the majority of his career. He never had Jerry Rice to throw to for a decade.

I agree with all of this. I am not a Brady fan. And I find it a little ironic that whether Brady is the greatest ever QB ever was is by large part being based on the opposing team's coach making perhaps the dumbest play call in history. If they give the ball to Lynch and they score then there would be far far fewer people making the argument that Brady is the greatest (3-3 vs 4-2) is a completely different consideration. As Delmar indicated, Brady became the greatest QB of all time (maybe) standing on the sideline. But he did have a darn good 4th quarter last night.

 

[Entropic]

As a Bills fan, it's been a staple of mine to trash Brady and the Pats as much as anyone. Seattle has also joined that territory.

That being said, I completely disagree with your assessment. He was down 10 in the 4th against the league's best D, with no momentum, and dominated the quarter. I don't see how that was average. Yes he had two picks, one much worse than the other.

It's hard to admit, but he is the most accomplished of all time.

The leagues best defense with a secondary that was incredibly depleted. Most accomplished means little to me when you are simply in the right place at the right time. He has benefited greatly from a scheming coach and a defense that consistently makes plays at important moments. Rex Grossman lead the bears to the superbowl, is he one of the greatest bears QBs ever? He is certainly one of only 2 to accomplish that feat for the bears...

 

[PhatOrange]

Brady is the greatest QB ever.

 

[SU2NASA]

Hail to the Victors!

 

[BuffOrange]

4-2 is better than 4-0 but to be fair, coming back from 21 down @Washington in a championship game in an era those comebacks never happened...probably a better way to go out than being held to 14 or 17 vs a middling NYG defense.
28 vs Seattle is impressive. Full circle with that dink&dunk offense from 2003. I don't know how it still works but the results are what they are.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Brady is good but he didn't do ANYTHING special in that game. He threw maybe 5 balls further than 10 yards in the air and two of them were intercepted. As with his past SBs this win is on his defense. You could plug any NFL QB in to that offense last night and get the same success. He was able to take advantage of some terrible match ups and a lot of illegal pick plays. The player picking is not permitted to intentionally make contact with the defender. Again Brady is a smart QB and good but last night was not a legendary performance in any regard. Last night was average at best.

101 rating, 81 QBR. Seattle doesn't allow the deep pass so the game plan was to go short. Haters gonna hate, but how did Peyton Manning perform against that Defense?

 

[Cuseregular]

yes and karma suggests to me now that he didn't cheat and Marshawn Lynch really is an insufferable douche.:noidea:

 

[Fjoinkay]

Brady is one of the best ever for sure, and he may be the best ever. I think playing his entire career with perhaps the best head coach ever is a relevant factor when looking at his 6 super bowls. Defense wins championships. Its hard to take anything away from Brady, and at the same time Belichick is part of the equation. Together they have been dynastic.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The leagues best defense with a secondary that was incredibly depleted. Most accomplished means little to me when you are simply in the right place at the right time. He has benefited greatly from a scheming coach and a defense that consistently makes plays at important moments. Rex Grossman lead the bears to the superbowl, is he one of the greatest bears QBs ever? He is certainly one of only 2 to accomplish that feat for the bears...

We can split hairs all we want. Our only championship was when we had a once in a lifetime recruit. See what I did there? Right place right time. Guess what- you can say that about every player/team ever. Phil Jackson had Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq. Right place right time. Let me know when a championship is won by a single player on the field/court without a coach.

Trent Dilfer won a superbowl. There are circumstances that come into play that are not the norm. The Bears with Grossman are one of them. But, you even remotely trying to make your point by bringing Rex Grossman into this just proves that this discussion won't get anywhere.

 

[Melancer46]

101 rating, 81 QBR. Seattle doesn't allow the deep pass so the game plan was to go short. Haters gonna hate, but how did Peyton Manning perform against that Defense?

Completely different defense compared to last year's SB team. And Peyton looked better against Seattle this year than Brady did last night IMO.

I don't think anyone else even really brought Peyton up besides me mentioning him as one of 4 QBs I would say were greater than Brady.

 

[dasher]

If it wasn't a big deal why did they fine Belichick half a million dollars (the largest fine ever imposed on a head coach in league history), take away a 1st round draft pick, and the league destroy all the video tapes? If its not a big deal what were they hiding? Why take away the draft pick?

Please...every team wasn't doing it. That is total made up BS!

Every team was doing it before the league told teams to stop. And the fine and the loss of the draft pick was for the arrogance of the pats for ignoring a league mandate.

 

[Stern]

Every team was doing it before the league told teams to stop. And the fine and the loss of the draft pick was for the arrogance of the pats for ignoring a league mandate.

Every team was not doing it. That is just not accurate. I guess ALL teams in the Super Bowl were also videotaping their opponents on the Saturday before the game at their walk-through too.

But you are entitled to believe what you want

 

[Melancer46]

To the point of the "Brady wasn't that great last night" crowd, he got a -2.4 rating from PFF for last night's game. They gave the game ball to Butler for his terrific play (more than just the game-clinching INT) and I assume Edelman graded highly as well but I haven't seen his grade.

 

[dasher]

Every team was not doing it. That is just not accurate. I guess ALL teams in the Super Bowl were also videotaping their opponents on the Saturday before the game at their walk-through too.

But you are entitled to believe what you want

There is zero, I will repeat that, zero proof that they did that. the Boston Herald had to run a big retraction on that story.

 

[Alsacs]

If you think the Pats videotaped the Rams
Walk through then your a hater. The Herald and John Tomase had to file contractions and apologies on that story.

If dinking and throwing short passes makes that less impressive you have the constitutional right to be stupid. Brady took what the defense gave him. Seattle dares teams to be patient and drive the field and they think they will stop you. Blame Seattle for putting Wright on Gronk 3 times and NE going 3 for 3 with 44 yds and 1 TD in that coverage.

If you actually think Manning had a better performance in the SB against Seattle's D than Brady your a Brady hater. Manning had 1 TD drive the whole game Brady had 4 TD drives. Both had 2 INTs but Manning threw a killer pick 6.

Brady and Montana are on a level of their own in the Pantheon of greatest QBs ever.

 

[Alsacs]

The Broncos cheated the salary cap in the 90's to keep players they were fined and lost draft picks. I don't think anyone in the media reports that crap.

The 49ers cheated the salary cap in 1994 to sign Deion Sanders and they won SB 29 and were fined for that.

The Patriots cheated and paid their price.

However we now live in a world where everyone wants to tear down greatness. If Michael Jordan of the 80's was doing his selfish stuff today he would be getting ripped like Kobe did. Our society today is just tear things down.

 

[Madbiker]

So if Seattle hands the ball to Lynch and he scores the winning TD with 20 seconds left, is Brady still the best of all time? Is anyone even talking about it?

 

[Melancer46]

If you think the Pats videotaped the Rams
Walk through then your a hater. The Herald and John Tomase had to file contractions and apologies on that story.

If dinking and throwing short passes makes that less impressive you have the constitutional right to be stupid. Brady took what the defense gave him. Seattle dares teams to be patient and drive the field and they think they will stop you. Blame Seattle for putting Wright on Gronk 3 times and NE going 3 for 3 with 44 yds and 1 TD in that coverage.

If you actually think Manning had a better performance in the SB against Seattle's D than Brady your a Brady hater. Manning had 1 TD drive the whole game Brady had 4 TD drives. Both had 2 INTs but Manning threw a killer pick 6.

Brady and Montana are on a level of their own in the Pantheon of greatest QBs ever.

Assuming this is directed towards me, I specifically said Peyton was more impressive against the Seahawks EARLIER THIS YEAR; not in the Super Bowl.

 

[Alsacs]

So if Seattle hands the ball to Lynch and he scores the winning TD with 20 seconds left, is Brady still the best of all time? Is anyone even talking about it?

They would be showing the Kearse caught all day long and saying it was the 3rd time a crazy catch has been made in the last 4 minutes of a SB game against Brady.

Brady led his team to 28 points against the best D in the NFL. Against the NYG he only led his team to 14 and 17 points he didn't play well in those games. Besides Rodgers In today's NFL I doubt another QB could have led his team 2 TDs in a row in a SB against that D.

 

[Alsacs]

Assuming this is directed towards me, I specifically said Peyton was more impressive against the Seahawks EARLIER THIS YEAR; not in the Super Bowl.

Manning had 303 yds 2TDS and 1 INT earlier this year and the Broncos to 20 points.

Brady had 323 yds 4TDs and 2 INTs led his team to 28 points in the SB.

I think 28 vs. 20 would say Brady was better. Included in those 20 points were a defensive safety and a 2 pt conversion. manning led the Denver offense to 18 pts.

 

[Melancer46]

Manning had 303 yds 2TDS and 1 INT earlier this year and the Broncos to 20 points.

Brady had 323 yds 4TDs and 2 INTs led his team to 28 points in the SB.

I think 28 vs. 20 would say Brady was better. Included in those 20 points were a defensive safety and a 2 pt conversion. manning led the Denver offense to 18 pts.

It's really not that simple but to each their own. I can't say you're wrong; I just don't agree.

 

[jordoo]

Personally, last night didn't change my opinion of him at all. He's among the best of all-time, but I'd still probably take Montana, Elway, Peyton, and Rodgers over him. I feel like people's opinions of Brady should pretty much be cemented by now.

How can you take any of those guys other than Montana?

Peyton has a proven track record of underperforming (by his regular season standards) in the playoffs. And not just what you would expect from playing better teams. Contrast that to Brady's playoff performances.

Elway has 2 late in his career once they got him some help. Brady won his first year as a starter against the mighty Rams.

Rodgers just hasn't been around long enough. Some day he might be the greatest ever and I could see rather having him starting a team right now but he absolutely isn't even in the conversation yet for greatest ever.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I don't know if I would put Brady ahead of Montana. 4-0, 11 TD, 0 INT, 127.8 QB rating - those are Joe's SB stats. Might be calling that one a tie.