Is Brady now the greatest of all-time?

[jordoo]

Manning being in the discussion as the GOAT is mind boggling to me. Regular season GOAT sure but GOAT not even close. IMO

 

[Eric15]

Regular season GOAT sure but GOAT not even close. IMO

Even if we're talking regular season, Brady has won 77.3% of his games and Manning 69.9%.

 

[jordoo]

Even if we're talking regular season, Brady has won 77.3% of his games and Manning 69.9%.

I agree but at least I can concede that its somewhat reasonable to have him in that discussion whatever the final verdict. Its completely ridiculous that some actual football fans have him in the discussion for GOAT when his one superbowl victor was in spite of his very poor play throughout the playoffs and due to very timely opportunistic defense and good running.

He is probably the GOAT when you get into commercials, if you like that kind of stuff.

 

[Melancer46]

How can you take any of those guys other than Montana?

Peyton has a proven track record of underperforming (by his regular season standards) in the playoffs. And not just what you would expect from playing better teams. Contrast that to Brady's playoff performances.

Elway has 2 late in his career once they got him some help. Brady won his first year as a starter against the mighty Rams.

Rodgers just hasn't been around long enough. Some day he might be the greatest ever and I could see rather having him starting a team right now but he absolutely isn't even in the conversation yet for greatest ever.

Peyton: Peyton has played just as well as Brady in the playoffs, if not better IMO; his teams just haven't won (though to Brady's advantage, he's played at Peyton's level in the playoffs despite usually having fewer weapons to work with). Having said that, the NFL playoffs often times don't result in the best team winning the Super Bowl IMO, and the QB is really only responsible for around 30ish% of each game's outcome, so I personally don't kill a QB for losing in the playoffs, nor do I say they're the best simply because their team won the game. Having watched the two of them for a long time, I just think Peyton was a better passer and a smarter QB in his prime than Brady was. Add on top of that all of his ridiculous accolades (5 MVPs, 7 time All-Pro 1st teamer, basically owning every passing record ever, etc.) and I think that Peyton edges Brady out by a small margin.

Elway: The only guy in his league as a passer/running threat is Rodgers IMO. Just had an absolutely incredible arm and he could beat you with his legs too. For me, the GOAT is between him, Montana, and Peyton, with Brady just slightly below them.

Rodgers: He's just now hitting his prime, but his numbers are already better than every QB in NFL history (both in the regular season and playoffs), and he passes the eye test too. He might be the single greatest passer I've ever seen and like Elway, he can beat you with his legs too. If he stays healthy, I think he'll solidify himself as the GOAT by the time he retires; as is, he's just now hitting his prime and I think he's already playing at a level that's higher than Brady and Peyton were in their primes, but he needs to continue building on his resume to take the crown.

 

[Rocco]

Hell NO.

 

[Delmar]

Using statistics to diminish what Tom Brady did last night reminds me of the Mark Twain quote:

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

 

[jordoo]

Peyton: Peyton has played just as well as Brady in the playoffs, if not better IMO; his teams just haven't won (though to Brady's advantage, he's played at Peyton's level in the playoffs despite usually having fewer weapons to work with). Having said that, the NFL playoffs often times don't result in the best team winning the Super Bowl IMO, and the QB is really only responsible for around 30ish% of each game's outcome, so I personally don't kill a QB for losing in the playoffs, nor do I say they're the best simply because their team won the game. Having watched the two of them for a long time, I just think Peyton was a better passer and a smarter QB in his prime than Brady was. Add on top of that all of his ridiculous accolades (5 MVPs, 7 time All-Pro 1st teamer, basically owning every passing record ever, etc.) and I think that Peyton edges Brady out by a small margin.

Elway: The only guy in his league as a passer/running threat is Rodgers IMO. Just had an absolutely incredible arm and he could beat you with his legs too. For me, the GOAT is between him, Montana, and Peyton, with Brady just slightly below them.

Rodgers: He's just now hitting his prime, but his numbers are already better than every QB in NFL history (both in the regular season and playoffs), and he passes the eye test too. He might be the single greatest passer I've ever seen and like Elway, he can beat you with his legs too. If he stays healthy, I think he'll solidify himself as the GOAT by the time he retires; as is, he's just now hitting his prime and I think he's already playing at a level that's higher than Brady and Peyton were in their primes, but he needs to continue building on his resume to take the crown.

In the playoffs I'd take Little brother over Big brother. In fact Little brother is the only reason this is up for debate because otherwise Brady would have 6 right now. I won't even argue with you about Manning because its soooooo ridiculous. How many guys in the league right now have more superbowl wins than him? Plus other than very early on he has always been on good teams that have a chance to do damage in the playoffs, the great ones facilitate this once they get their team there.

Elway was a great QB no doubt about it but he's just not going in front of Brady or Montana.

I love Rodgers as a QB and those pinpoint bullets he throws when on the run outside the pocket are pretty much the best ever. Again not arguing his chops just saying he still has to do it.

 

[Melancer46]

In the playoffs I'd take Little brother over Big brother. In fact Little brother is the only reason this is up for debate because otherwise Brady would have 6 right now. I won't even argue with you about Manning because its soooooo ridiculous. How many guys in the league right now have more superbowl wins than him? Plus other than very early on he has always been on good teams that have a chance to do damage in the playoffs, the great ones facilitate this once they get their team there.

Elway was a great QB no doubt about it but he's just not going in front of Brady or Montana.

I love Rodgers as a QB and those pinpoint bullets he throws when on the run outside the pocket are pretty much the best ever. Again not arguing his chops just saying he still has to do it.

Fair enough. I just think there's a lot more to football than who wins in the playoffs.

Edit: I mean more to which player is the best than who wins in the playoffs. Obviously the goal is to win a Super Bowl, but there's too much that's out of the QB's control in a one-and-done format of playoffs like we have in the NFL for me to put too much stock into the wins and losses.

 

[Eric15]

Hell NO.

Certainly can't argue with this in-depth analysis. I now have to reconsider my stance that Brady is the best-ever.

 

[Rocco]

Certainly can't argue with this in-depth analysis. I now have to reconsider my stance that Brady is the best-ever.

If I got to pick one QB from any era to lead my team, it's not him. Sorry, hopefully this helps explain more.

 

[jordoo]

If I got to pick one QB from any era to lead my team, it's not him. Sorry, hopefully this helps explain more.

Who is it?

 

[Eric15]

If I got to pick one QB from any era to lead my team, it's not him. Sorry, hopefully this helps explain more.

That's not really the question though. Like, if you needed to pick one guy to be your team's RB in their prime, you may very well choose Terrell Davis or Marshall Faulk over Emmitt Smith. But Emmitt had the greater career without question and thus is higher on the all-time list.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Peyton: Peyton has played just as well as Brady in the playoffs, if not better IMO; his teams just haven't won (though to Brady's advantage, he's played at Peyton's level in the playoffs despite usually having fewer weapons to work with). Having said that, the NFL playoffs often times don't result in the best team winning the Super Bowl IMO, and the QB is really only responsible for around 30ish% of each game's outcome, so I personally don't kill a QB for losing in the playoffs, nor do I say they're the best simply because their team won the game. Having watched the two of them for a long time, I just think Peyton was a better passer and a smarter QB in his prime than Brady was. Add on top of that all of his ridiculous accolades (5 MVPs, 7 time All-Pro 1st teamer, basically owning every passing record ever, etc.) and I think that Peyton edges Brady out by a small margin.

Elway: The only guy in his league as a passer/running threat is Rodgers IMO. Just had an absolutely incredible arm and he could beat you with his legs too. For me, the GOAT is between him, Montana, and Peyton, with Brady just slightly below them.

Rodgers: He's just now hitting his prime, but his numbers are already better than every QB in NFL history (both in the regular season and playoffs), and he passes the eye test too. He might be the single greatest passer I've ever seen and like Elway, he can beat you with his legs too. If he stays healthy, I think he'll solidify himself as the GOAT by the time he retires; as is, he's just now hitting his prime and I think he's already playing at a level that's higher than Brady and Peyton were in their primes, but he needs to continue building on his resume to take the crown.

Brady vs Manning isn't even an argument at this point. There's no argument to make anymore. Nobody cares about some game in October where Manning throws for five touchdowns against the titans. Brady threw for four touchdowns in the Super Bowl against one of the greatest defenses of all time. Aaron Rodgers was shut down twice this year by Seattle. Haters gonna hate. By the way. If you take the entire season into account like I think they should in every sports, Brady would be MVP.

 

[Melancer46]

Brady vs Manning isn't even an argument at this point. There's no argument to make anymore. Nobody cares about some game in October where Manning throws for five touchdowns against the titans. Brady threw for four touchdowns in the Super Bowl against one of the greatest defenses of all time. Aaron Rodgers was shut down twice this year by Seattle. Haters gonna hate. By the way. If you take the entire season into account like I think they should in every sports, Brady would be MVP.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. You put all the stock in the playoffs. I put a lot of stock into the other 90% of games that QBs play. Statistically, Brady and Peyton are pretty much identical in the postseason while Rodgers blows both of them out of the water. Like I said before, I don't hold it against Peyton that his teams have lost even when he's played well, nor do I bow down to Brady when his team wins even if he doesn't have a great game. You apparently do and that's fine. I'm not a Brady hater. He's firmly in my top 5 of all-time. He just isn't my #1 QB ever but you can certainly make a case for him to be.

 

[KaiserUEO]

The Giants are playing the 49 ers in a playoff game. The 49ers say their head sets aren't working. So the Giants have to turn their head sets off. The 49ers always have their first 15 plays scripted. They have Joe Montana. They win. The following year they are playing in the playoffs again. Bill Parcells says he walks over to Walsh pre game and says I know what you did last year. If you try it again, I'll turn you in (obviously the 49ers shut their own head sets off. they were prepared for it, the Giants weren't) Walsh looks at Parcells and says gamesmenship. It's gamesmenship when you do it and it's cheating when the other team does it. A lot of Jeter fans here. he faked being hit by a pitch. replay shows the ball never came close to hitting him. Is that cheating? Does that take away from his legacy? Not if you're a Jeter fan. Then it's gamesmenship.

i posted this story last week, you stole it...and got it wrong.

it was 85, the Giants still won...and Bill told him pregame in 86 not to do it again or he'll call him out on it.

your Jeter story is ridiculous. that happened what 1x, 2x in 20 years?? other guys make a living on it.

What year? I was a 49er fan and I dont ever remember beating the Giants in the playoffs.

when and for how long were you a fan???

the Giants lost to them in 81, 84, 93 & 03.

While beating them 85, 86 & 90 & 11.

 

[Entropic]

101 rating, 81 QBR. Seattle doesn't allow the deep pass so the game plan was to go short. Haters gonna hate, but how did Peyton Manning perform against that Defense?

As a huge Manning fan, Manning it one of the worst post season QBs I have ever seen. He does not show up in the playoffs plain and simple. The defense won him his one SB. But that is a straw man argument so good job knocking it over. The fact remains that he completed 90% of his passes withing 8 yards of the LOS. It doesn't take a "legendary" QB to do that. It takes having receivers and tight ends that are mismatches and a OC that can call the right plays. Brady isn't calling plays out there. He was taking 3 step drops and throwing it to the receiver with the best match up. It was smart. But most QBs in the NFL can make those reads and passes.

 

[dasher]

i posted this story last week, you stole it...and got it wrong.

it was 85, the Giants still won...and Bill told him pregame in 86 not to do it again or he'll call him out on it.

your Jeter story is ridiculous. that happened what 1x, 2x in 20 years?? other guys make a living on it.


when and for how long were you a fan???

the Giants lost to them in 81, 84, 93 & 03.

While beating them 85, 86 & 90 & 11.

I don't know how many times that cheater did that.

 

[rosconey]

the greatest has to be between eli manning phil simms and any other gmen qb

all the others suck


what about jimm kelly- 4 straight super bowls -marino has to be in conversation-

i think the question should be best superbowl qb

 

[dasher]

the greatest has to be between eli manning phil simms and any other gmen qb

all the others suck


what about jimm kelly- 4 straight super bowls -marino has to be in conversation-

i think the question should be best superbowl qb

So Derek Jeter would still be consdiered the same if his team never won a world series? Winning is what sports are all about. And no position in sports is more important than qb. And I might add, brady is done yet. His numbers will only get better.

 

[KaiserUEO]

So Derek Jeter would still be consdiered the same if his team never won a world series? Winning is what sports are all about. And no position in sports is more important than qb. And I might add, brady is done yet. His numbers will only get better.

Neither is Eli...

 

[dasher]

Neither is Eli...

I'm a Giant fan. I hope eli beats Brady with super bowl titles. And I really hope Tony Romo never gets another playoff win.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

If Lynch was given the ball this thread wouldn't exist

 

[JAXCUSE]

If Lynch was given the ball this thread wouldn't exist

But he wasn't given the ball...
The difference between "very good" and "great" can be context and circumstance...
Brady is a winner. Unquestionably one of the all time best at his position...

 

[Tobias Funke]

If Lynch was given the ball this thread wouldn't exist

If tyree drops the helmet catch, if welker catches the pass Tom already has 4 or 5 going into this game. Point is those plays happened and they are all part of the equation. Dumb play calls, lucky catches(kearse) are all part of the game. People pretend that because they called a pass play an interception was inevitable, but it still required a great play.

 

[BostonOrange]

A few thoughts, as a huge Brady fan:

- I would never argue with anyone who thought Montana was the best ever. Or Unitas. Or Otto Graham. Or even Elway. It is a judgment call - if someone saw Brady and Elway play and think Elway was better who am I to say you are wrong?
- As a few others have pointed out it's sort of odd that because Wilson threw that pick now Brady is the best ever. On the other hand you could say something like that almost every year. If Vinatiari doesnt make those field goals Brady might only have one ring. If Tyree doesn't catch a ball off his helmet and if Welker catches that ball in 2011, then Brady could have 6. The point being it is always a team game.
- Someone said in the thread that Brady doesn't make many impressive throws. And, I think it's true that he doesn't make as many brilliant, eye popping throws as guys like Rodgers, and Peyton. But, the thing I do think he is the absolute best at is figuring out pre snap who is going to be open and then getting quickly the ball to them. I find it hard to believe that just anyone would go 37-50 for 328 and 4 td's against the Seahawks.
- As for the thought that he benefits from Belichick well of course he does - but Montana probably benefited from Bill Walsh. And Beli had exactly one winning season in 5 years as a head coach before Brady so...
- While I don't think you can use the word 'best', I do think you can say that there is no reasonable case that any QB has accomplished as much as Brady in the SB era. You can name the metric - SB wins, SB appearances, playoff wins, playoff winning %, reg season winning %, reg season total wins, division titles - and Brady is #1 in virtually all of them. If you want to talk stats he can measure up there too.