Is Ennis the bet frosh in college basketball?

[jordoo]

Parker is terrific. But I am not basing my opinion of Embiid on what scouts are saying. I'm basing it off of what I have seen. He's an extremely gifted, athletic 7 footer. He's a very, very special talent. And again - this has nothing to do with scouts. This is based on my own observations, watching him play. He's going to he an outstanding player.

Agreed but he isn't close to being the best freshman player right now IMO. He is probably the greatest talent and the rarest as a legit big.

 

[jordoo]

Most valuable? Yes

Best? No

Who is the best then?

 

[jekelish]

Agreed but he isn't close to being the best freshman player right now IMO. He is probably the greatest talent and the rarest as a legit big.

I can agree with that. I will say this - I would absolutely put any amount of money that Embiid will make more All-Star teams than Wiggins.

 

[CusefanATL]

Parker is terrific. But I am not basing my opinion of Embiid on what scouts are saying. I'm basing it off of what I have seen. He's an extremely gifted, athletic 7 footer. He's a very, very special talent. And again - this has nothing to do with scouts. This is based on my own observations, watching him play. He's going to he an outstanding player.

but are we talking best frosh in college basketball or who will be best player down the road?

if we are talking most likely to succeed (future star)... i'll give you embiid. but if we are talking prom king (current star)... embiid is not in the discussion.

if we are talking future star... there may be a bunch of people im taking over ennis, fyi. (not a dig)

 

[Cowtown]

Whether Ennis is the best frosh in the NCAA is debatable. Whether he's the best fit on a currently top ranked team as a frosh is indisputable. He's only what, 18 years old, and he's like a hand in a glove.

 

[PoppyHart]

Who is the best then?

By best I mean talented. And there are several who have higher ceilings. Randle, Parker, Lavine, Embiid, Wiggins, etc.. But Ennis has been the most indispensible.

 

[jordoo]

I can agree with that. I will say this - I would absolutely put any amount of money that Embiid will make more All-Star teams than Wiggins.

I would agree and infact Wiggins will blend in even more around the more talented players. He doesn't have the it factor to be a super star IMO although I bet he has a long successful NBA career just never see him as a #1 guy on an NBA team.

 

[jekelish]

but are we talking best frosh in college basketball or who will be best player down the road?

if we are talking most likely to succeed (future star)... i'll give you embiid. but if we are talking prom king (current star)... embiid is not in the discussion.

if we are talking future star... there may be a bunch of people im taking over ennis, fyi. (not a dig)

Well that's also why I said I think Ennis is arguably the best college player. So now that I think about it I guess I'm somehow trying to make two arguments at once.

And I keep mentioning Embiid despite his lack of gaudy numbers mainly because I've been blown away by how smooth and skilled he is, which is light years ahead of what I anticipated. He is a truly rare talent and I would absolutely take him #1 this year.

But if I want to win a college basketball game, I'm not sure I would want anyone in this freshman class over Tyler Ennis.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Best is a broad word, but no.

He's damn good though, and I love him. Seriously, love.

 

[wallacecuse]

I can agree with that. I will say this - I would absolutely put any amount of money that Embiid will make more All-Star teams than Wiggins.

I have been very underwhelmed with Wiggins. I heard talk of him being the best high schooler since LeBron. Not a chance. Great athlete, but does not bring much else to the table at this point.

What made LeBron a once in a lifetime player at the HS level was being a great athlete who was physically superior to every player in the country. Wiggins is not that.

 

[jordoo]

By best I mean talented. And there are several who have higher ceilings. Randle, Parker, Lavine, Embiid, Wiggins, etc.. But Ennis has been the most indispensible.

Well talented and best are different as far as best college freshman player I think he clearly is although I agree plenty are far more talented physically.

 

[cusetown1]

I'd add Randle he's a beast and is on a team that has no idea how to really utilize him.

Randle is really overrated .

 

[cusetown1]

Yes he is and it's not close.

 

[CusefanATL]

I have been very underwhelmed with Wiggins. I heard talk of him being the best high schooler since LeBron. Not a chance. Great athlete, but does not bring much else to the table at this point.

What made LeBron a once in a lifetime player at the HS level was being a great athlete who was physically superior to every player in the country. Wiggins is not that.

what made wiggins so good prior to college was having a great pg to set him up to be great.

(i have no idea, i didnt see him play 1 second in high school... but i like the pg he played with. a lot. a lot a lot)

 

[PoppyHart]

what made wiggins so good prior to college was having a great pg to set him up to be great.

(i have no idea, i didnt see him play 1 second in high school... but i like the pg he played with. a lot. a lot a lot)

People are way too harsh on Wiggins imo. Comparisons to Lebron are destined to fail.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sticking with my Deron Williams comparison if he does stay a couple more years. I think he could develop into that kind of talent.

I've been thinking Steve Nash actually, due to Voodoo's ability to control a game, run a team, and score late in games when the situation presents itself.

Plus, Canada.

 

[RF2044]

By best I mean talented. And there are several who have higher ceilings. Randle, Parker, Lavine, Embiid, Wiggins, etc.. But Ennis has been the most indispensible.

Therein lies the rub: what does higher ceiling have to do with who is the best right now, in college basketball?

This is the critique I have of the "best frosh" lists that omitted Ennis early, and only now have him rising up the scales in favor of guys with more perceived NBA potential. Rating someone at the collegiate level should be independent of future NBA potential. For example, there isn't [or shouldn't be] an SU fan who would trade Ennis for one of the more highly rated Harrison twins. Those guys might [emphasis on MIGHT, because I'm not discounting Tyler's eventual NBA draft prospects] be better prospects who are athletically more suited for the NBA. And maybe they'll get drafted higher than Ennis would [no guarantee, given how Ennis is coming on--but that's the conventional wisdom].

But would anyone take either of those players over Tyler Ennis? Hell no. And despite the myopic, monosyallabic protests that might ensue from bluegrass land, if you put Ennis on that team for one of the Harrisons THEY'D be in the top 5 and undefeated.

 

[wallacecuse]

I've been thinking Steve Nash actually, due to Voodoo's ability to control a game, run a team, and score late in games when the situation presents itself.

Plus, Canada.

Mike Bibby for me...they look so similar with the ball.

 

[jncuse]

Statistically, he may not be viewed top freshman or point, but the game goes much deeper than that. I can understand an outsider not seeing much of our games asking "What is the big deal"

And to me that is the amazing thing about Ennis - many analysts are considering him as the best point in the country, despite good but not great stats (except that terrific Ast/To rate). Its a rep rarely earned by a frosh.

It happens from time to time, that a point is highly regarded as the nation's best without the "best" stats - but those players are typically cerebral junior or seniors that have earned the rep after a few seasons. Instead of two seasons, Ennis has earned that rep after only 10 games.

 

[jncuse]

The thing that may hurt Ennis in terms of accolades is his performance against cupcakes.

Typically in those types of games, top players either
1) Look to boost their stats with higher usage, or
2) At least try to ensure they get their regular amount of shots.

Ennis don't care about that crap. He would rather other players get their looks in those games, and is never looking for his shot. Its limits his stats, but has no impact on how good he is. But it could hurt award time.

 

[rrlbees]

For what our team needs yes he is the best.

Parker is a stud and hes the only one who is close

Yep. Ennis is the best freshman in the country...for us. Not only is he a great player but he filled our greater need. But I have to go with Ennis at probably #2 behind Parker. Hard to deny almost 20ppg, 8rpg, shooting over 50% and over 40% from 3.

But trade Parker for Ennis and we aren't undefeated right now.

 

[jekelish]

Mike Bibby for me...they look so similar with the ball.

Difference there is that Bibby was always one hell of a shooter.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

If you look at the Wins Produced metric, which is my preferred one when considering players and their contribution to Ws, Ennis is the best freshman.

Randle and Embiid are slightly more productive when on the floor than Ennis, but Ennis plays more minutes. Ennis has produced 2.9 wins for us, Randle is second with 2.5, Gordon and Parker are tied with 2.4.

 

[rrlbees]

If you look at the Wins Produced metric, which is my preferred one when considering players and their contribution to Ws, Ennis is the best freshman.

Randle and Embiid are slightly more productive when on the floor than Ennis, but Ennis plays more minutes. Ennis has produced 2.9 wins for us, Randle is second with 2.4, Gordon and Parker are tied with 2.4.

It's too dependent upon the other players on the team.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

It's too dependent upon the other players on the team.

How so?