Is it play calling or QB play because it isnt a lack of talent

[Chip]

My biggest issue with Ryan is his inability to buy time to allow receivers to get open. once the happy feet start, the play is over for receivers. He immediately tucks and runs (or lumbers).

He's a good kid who plays hard, but god didn't give him fleet feet or a sense of feel for finding the open space in the pocket.

I was thinking about this the other day. And I don't mean for this to be an unfair comparison between two players, rather my reaction to each.

When McNabb left the pocket on a 3rd down, you would stand up because you knew something cool was going to happen.

When Nassib leaves the pocket on a 3rd down,, I stand up and run to the bathroom to beat the crowd, because I know we're about to punt.

Very little ability to keep his eyes downfield, throw on the run.

Bring me back at athletic QB. Doesn't answer everything on offense, but it's our best bet for an equalizer if we're not going to have top shelf WRs or OL.

 

[Upstate]

if you don't want him to fumble, you shouldn't want him to leave the pocket

as long as he slides, there shouldn't be a problem

 

[Chip]

It is a lack of talent.

Among other things.

You people need to watch more college football. It's fun, you'll enjoy it.

I think people confuse knowing the names of our players with "talent". Outside of Kobena, who's unfortunately not available right now, the speed of our WRs on the field is average at best compared to the rest of college football. Same with our RBs, although when he finds a hole I like watching Jerome Smith run downhill.

When I watch an Oregon game, I feel like I'm either watching a different sport, or a different species playing the same sport.

 

[Millhouse]

I was thinking about this the other day. And I don't mean for this to be an unfair comparison between two players, rather my reaction to each.

When McNabb left the pocket on a 3rd down, you would stand up because you knew something cool was going to happen.

When Nassib leaves the pocket on a 3rd down,, I stand up and run to the bathroom to beat the crowd, because I know we're about to punt.

Very little ability to keep his eyes downfield, throw on the run.

Bring me back at athletic QB. Doesn't answer everything on offense, but it's our best bet for an equalizer if we're not going to have top shelf WRs or OL.

this is going to get totally misconstrued as some bash on pasqualoni and deleone and i don't mean it that way

the 3rd down shotgun do something awesome please and then throw up. why not just do that on 1st 2nd (and 4th) down too?

that was pretty much vince young beating USC.

can you imagine what mcnabb would do in good current spread offense.

 

[Scooch]

I think people confuse knowing the names of our players with "talent". Outside of Kobena, who's unfortunately not available right now, the speed of our WRs on the field is average at best compared to the rest of college football. Same with our RBs, although when he finds a hole I like watching Jerome Smith run downhill.

When I watch an Oregon game, I feel like I'm either watching a different sport, or a different species playing the same sport.

Ha. I mean I really don't like to disparage our players. They're college guys doing the best they can.

Our WRs and RBs aren't "bad". But they're simply not game changers, not any of them.

Before we kicked off against N'Western I was watching an old tape of our win over Michigan in '98. Look at our skill position players who got touches that day...

Kyle McIntosh
Rob Konrad
Dee Brown
James Mungro
Kevin Johnson
Quinton Spotwood
Stephen Brominski
Maurice Jackson

I mean, Sales is the #3 WR at best compared to that crew. Smith is getting mop up duty in the backfield, maybe.

And that's NOT including McNabb, who was kinda better than them all.

People work too hard to tell me we have talent.

I feel like giving a Lloyd Bentsen response sometimes... "I know talent, I've seen talent..."

 

[Scooch]

That being said, we should be scoring a helluva lot more than we have been. 305 yards vs. Pitt is, well, pitiful.

 

[orangeintheacc]

I think Nassib is a good quarterback, but I agree with those that say he has limitations. He seems to do fine when he is able to throw the ball in rhythm and he has a rocket of an arm, but he does get jittery and he definitely is not a natural runner with the ball. To me, the spread offense SU runs isn't suited to his strengths -- guys like Colter from NW or Miller from Ohio State are great at riding the RB and either giving it or pulling it and running it themselves. Nassib looks like more of a pro style QB. I'd love to see SU at least occasionally go with a two back set and use a lead back to help spring some one. Against Pitt in the second half we were running parallel to the line of scrimmage way too much with PTG instead of going north and south with Smith.

 

[upperdeck]

No QB needs or gets 8 seconds.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

geno smith does, or did against Baylor.

 

[GoSU96]

Sales, Lemming, Wales, West, Flemming, Ash, AAM, PTG, Smith, Seasoned and solid Oline.

We have plenty of talent on O more than most of the teams we have played with the exception of USC and Pitt. So what is the problem is it play calling or Nassib? I believe that it is a combo. I really dont think that Ryan is all that good. Happy feet, lack of touch and vision dont make for a great QB regardless of stats and his play in the Redzone is horrible. Couple
that with some very strange play calling and you have an O that has a much harder than it should.

1. Minny and Pitt have been good on defense all year, and are playing coverages that are taking away the free releases guys were getting earlier. That's why the pass game has been less effective.

2. That being said, there were still opportunities if Nassib was a little more patient. Avoiding big negative plays was the difference between winning and loseing, see Pitt's last possession, but he's been drilled to get something out of nothing, seemingly at all cost. He's got to hang in there a little better and the OL needs to provide more of a pocket.

3. The WR's need to do a better job winning plays.

4. They are going to have to scheme more to free guys up.

 

[ForeverOrange]

I think you touched on it the other day. I think Nassib has all of the physical tools and football smarts to be a good quarterback. He's shown glimpses of that in the last three years.

I really think his issue is fear. He wants to win so badly, he tries to hard, forces things, etc. I've suffered from anxiety for years, and I can tell you- the more you think about something and pressure yourself about something, the more likely it is you're going to screw it up. I played baseball for 12 years- I was so scared of striking out, I struck out constantly. That still hasn't changed.

When Nassib has plenty of prep time, he's played pretty well. Usually the first three or four games of the season, plus the Pinstripe Bowl.

But on a week to week basis, he's played like he's completely terrified of letting everyone down. Hence, the red zone picks and forced passes on screens.

Weren't we just coming of a bye week though? I think Nassib is good for short yardage, even if he had all day to throw long, he can't, that's just not his strength, which is ok, but some of the other aspects of his game he should have better control of by now, esp the happy feet.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Weren't we just coming of a bye week though? I think Nassib is good for short yardage, even if he had all day to throw long, he can't, that's just not his strength, which is ok, but some of the other aspects of his game he should have better control of by now, esp the happy feet.

Didn't think of the bye week. I dunno. It's just a theory I have. Don't know the guy to actually judge.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

honest question, why can't our receivers get separation? is it coaching or talent or both? if it's talent, why not run picks?

We are limited at QB and WR, but I'd say mostly at WR. Since our guys can't get open on their own, the coaches should be putting them in a better position to do so schematically, like picks, bunch formations, seam routes, etc.

What do people think about Nassib's ability to check down? It sort of seems like if the first guy isn't open, the play is over.

 

[Scooch]

1. Minny and Pitt have been good on defense all year, and are playing coverages that are taking away the free releases guys were getting earlier. That's why the pass game has been less effective.

Meh. Pitt played well against VaTech (who hasn't?) but got throttled by Cincy. Seems like they've been inconsistent, not good all year.

If nothing else, Pitt's no world beater on defense. We really should have been able to do much better against them.

 

[OrangePA]

I'm not pessimistic about the SU football program.

Pessimistic about Marrone, yes, especially if we're back to the sludge and trudge offense.

Chances are very good that I'll last longer on this online community than Marrone will as HC.

Well, I guess I'm confused now.

I don't recall speculating as to future performance of the Program - at least not in specific terms - since I don't know who will be playing for Syracuse University in the future.My guess now is that the performance will be better because the talent level is on the rise.

So that part of your post seems like an odd retort - but good try - I guess.

I am disappointed in two things though - that you feel Marrone will not recruit well in the future even with an improved football infrastructure and with the move to the ACC - I think you're dead wrong about that - and that you'll still be around here after today - nothing I can do about that - but one can try and hope.

 

[RMH44]

It is a lack of talent.

Among other things.

You people need to watch more college football. It's fun, you'll enjoy it.

Agreed...and furthermore, I think the "new offense" made our receivers appear better than they are. Now the secret is out and most opponents with press cover our WR's until they can prove they can get off the line of scrimmage efficiently.

 

[Franz69]

You can win with these players. Not the most talented, but talented enough. Certainly talented enough to beat Northwestern and Minnesota.

Play calling leaves a lot to be desired and does not emphasize our players' strengths. Sweep to Smith on the goal line. Fade in the endzone when we all know that Nassib lacks touch. Only deep pass against Pitt was to West, our slowest wide receiver. How about using Clark to stretch the D?

How about going back to plays that work? That quick pop over the middle to the TE worked well early in the season. Where is that now?

Broyld? Beuller? Beuller?

 

[kcsu]

Ash should be able to get off the line same with sales and lemon and west as they are all strong big recievers. I think the problem is Ryan. He just doesnt have the ability to stand in the pocket. He was given great protection most of the game and just seemed nervous and off. I would like to see us flood one side of the field and yes how about a few picks. I also want to see a max protect shot down the field two times min a game. Use Chris as he has the speed to get deep. Taking a shot or two will help. Having bashed Ryan i have the feeling he is going to light up Rutgers. Something tells me he goes for 400 and three scores.

 

[JeremyCuse]

You don't understand.

I try to assess talent as objectively as I can - and with the acknowledgment that I am simply a lay fan - and I maintain my belief that talent is ultimately the deciding factor in wins and losses - not "play calling."

The OP asked to address the talent level of the offense - or to compare it to the play calling issue.

My assessment was that we have deficiencies at the WR, QB and RB positions that probably explain why we have struggled in certain ways this fall.

I did not suggest that we will never have sufficient talent or that our talent level has not increased a great deal in the last two years.

In fact, I believe that our talent level has increased in a number of positions and I have every confidence that the talent level of the team will get better and better in the next two years.

Your post suggests, apparently, that we will never have sufficient talent.

That's a downer of a post as far as I am concerned.

So, my suggestion to you was go root for another program if you're so pessimistic about the SU Football Program. It will make you happier to do so.

And, I thanked you in advance for going away.

Hopefully, that clears things up a bit.

So you can assess who does or does haven't talent on the offense but if another fan or fans questions the play calling there unreasonable and you question there credentials and background. Got it.

 

[JeremyCuse]

1. Minny and Pitt have been good on defense all year, and are playing coverages that are taking away the free releases guys were getting earlier. That's why the pass game has been less effective.

2. That being said, there were still opportunities if Nassib was a little more patient. Avoiding big negative plays was the difference between winning and loseing, see Pitt's last possession, but he's been drilled to get something out of nothing, seemingly at all cost. He's got to hang in there a little better and the OL needs to provide more of a pocket.

3. The WR's need to do a better job winning plays.

4. They are going to have to scheme more to free guys up.

Your points 2-4 are spot on especially 3 and 4 I could not agree more, the staff needs to run some more inventive plays to make for our lack of top end speed.

Your first point is wrong, the Pitt D was embarrassed by Youngstown State and Cincy, there not good.
Ditto for Minny Directional Michigan hung nearly 30 on them and Iowa blew them out.

 

[kcsu]

Orange PA is all about the coaches which is cool as he doesnt waiver. That is his thing. I tend to be in the middle but my heart is all about the program. I could really care less who our coach is as long as they win clean. I think that Doug is doing a good job and i believe that long term he is a good CEO type of head coach. I loved seeing him with passion as i believe it does make a difference with young men. Just ask the guys at Fort Drum. As to the talent on the team i believe that we have enought to win all but USC and LV. My biggest issue this year is Hack. There is no way in hell that he should be our OC. Should he be a position coach? You bet. But OC you have got to be kidding me. It is so crystal clear that he doesnt know what he is doing. His play calling and use of our talent screams newbie. He has improved this year but he blew the Minnesota game big time and almost blew Pitt. Sometimes i really feel as if he is in his dads basement playing Madden. He just doesnt have a feel for calling a game. He puts Ryan in poor positions over and over again and seems to take us out of our rythm when we find it. Not using Ash is beyond me and there isnt one poster on this board who can defend his red zone play calling as it has been beyond horrible. Still i have hope that boy wonder wakes up against the girls and joy sticks them to death. If we fall apart this year it will be interesting to see if DM has the same set of balls that he showed in letting Dan go. I for one doubt it.

 

[kcsu]

Orange PA is all about the coaches which is cool as he doesnt waiver. That is his thing. I tend to be in the middle but my heart is all about the program. I could really care less who our coach is as long as they win clean. I think that Doug is doing a good job and i believe that long term he is a good CEO type of head coach. I loved seeing him with passion as i believe it does make a difference with young men. Just ask the guys at Fort Drum. As to the talent on the team i believe that we have enought to win all but USC and LV. My biggest issue this year is Hack. There is no way in hell that he should be our OC. Should he be a position coach? You bet. But OC you have got to be kidding me. It is so crystal clear that he doesnt know what he is doing. His play calling and use of our talent screams newbie. He has improved this year but he blew the Minnesota game big time and almost blew Pitt. Sometimes i really feel as if he is in his dads basement playing Madden. He just doesnt have a feel for calling a game. He puts Ryan in poor positions over and over again and seems to take us out of our rythm when we find it. Not using Ash is beyond me and there isnt one poster on this board who can defend his red zone play calling as it has been beyond horrible. Still i have hope that boy wonder wakes up against the girls and joy sticks them to death. If we fall apart this year it will be interesting to see if DM has the same set of balls that he showed in letting Dan go. I for one doubt it.

 

[Shenexon]

I think people confuse knowing the names of our players with "talent". Outside of Kobena, who's unfortunately not available right now, the speed of our WRs on the field is average at best compared to the rest of college football. Same with our RBs, although when he finds a hole I like watching Jerome Smith run downhill.

When I watch an Oregon game, I feel like I'm either watching a different sport, or a different species playing the same sport.

WVU and Texas looked very fast on offense as well. That was a fun game to watch but I'm glad we don't play the Mountaineers this year.

 

[kingottoiii]

Since people love stats, here's a fun exercise...

The reviled Troy Nunes:
58.6% career completion rate, 7.4 yards per attempt, 5.2% TDs per attempt, 5.2% INTs per attempt, 127.5 passer rating

Ryan Nassib:
60.4% career completion rate, 6.7 yards per attempt, 5.1% TDs per attempt, 2.3% INTs per attempt, 128.8 passer rating

Outside of the picks, which we all know was Nunes' great weakness, not so different, right?

Well that was Nunes' issue. He had a lot of negative plays between his INTs and running backwards for huge loses on sacks. It wasn't his passing but his decision making.

 

[OrangePA]

So you can assess who does or does haven't talent on the offense but if another fan or fans questions the play calling there unreasonable and you question there credentials and background. Got it.

You just don't want to read.

Try again and try as best you can to note my acknowledgement that my assessments of talent are those of a lay person.

And please note as well that our talent level is gauged by recruiting services and by the schools with whom we are competing for athletes.

I think most agree that by those measures our talent level has increased over the last two years.

 

[Scooch]

You just don't want to read.

Try again and try as best you can to note my acknowledgement that my assessments of talent are those of a lay person.

And please note as well that our talent level is gauged by recruiting services and by the schools with whom we are competing for athletes.

I think most agree that by those measures our talent level has increased over the last two years.

Honestly OPA, there is not a time in the past 10 years of this program that people didn't declare that our talent was improving.

I'm not calling you out, it's everyone.

This place is full of diehards who have a compulsive need to believe we're getting better.

I hope this time everyone is right.