Is it time?

[Ish88888]

Cal gets hated on by fans of any school not named UK. He's a great head coach.

Half of CBB coaching is recruiting anyway.

Yes, yes, it is! And Cal buries JB with recruiting as well as player development and in game scheme.

 

[OttoMets]

The golden era of the program came and went. Not getting a top coach. We will be teller bg our grandkids who dont care about cuse hoops at all how once upon a time this program was legit.

This will make certain posters go crazy, but it's probably close to the truth. SU's future might look a little like Wake Forest, an occasional player but not a power. And that's assuming that the school handles a slide and the ensuing attendance problem well.

Boeheim's not the coach he once was. People decline at some point, and he's a little conservative and seems unable to resurrect the idea of running offensive sets.

Boeheim's successor will not be as good as Boeheim was at his best, and he probably won't be as good as Boeheim is right now. Why? Because Boeheim's very good, and there's only a handful of coaches out there who are better.

So if we're replacing an institution who's limped to a sub-.600 record over ~3 seasons with a coach who's worse, some shaky basketball could be in our future. And if that results in only 11,000 people who want to buy tickets to watch a basketball game in the end zone, Syracuse's program will have a lot less appeal than it did during the glory era.

There's a lot of uncertainty right now, and most of it is out of SU's control. But it's very possible that the basketball program's best days are behind it.

 

[rhcuse]

Gregg Marshall.

I just threw up in my mouth.

 

[OttoMets]

He's already decided what he thinks is best for the program. It's one of the things he accessed when he came on and last summer he made it official and public. I don't see him changing his mind just because this season is going sideways.

I agree with you and expect Mike to be coaching us next fall (or maybe in 2018 at the latest), but it wouldn't be unprecedented for Syverud to breach a contract if he thought it was in SU's best interest.

For a number of reasons I hope he doesn't do that.

 

[longislandcuse]

This will make certain posters go crazy, but it's probably close to the truth. SU's future might look a little like Wake Forest, an occasional player but not a power. And that's assuming that the school handles a slide and the ensuing attendance problem well.

Boeheim's not the coach he once was. People decline at some point, and he's a little conservative and seems unable to resurrect the idea of running offensive sets.

Boeheim's successor will not be as good as Boeheim was at his best, and he probably won't be as good as Boeheim is right now. Why? Because Boeheim's very good, and there's only a handful of coaches out there who are better.

So if we're replacing an institution who's limped to a sub-.600 record over ~3 seasons with a coach who's worse, some shaky basketball could be in our future. And if that results in only 11,000 people who want to buy tickets to watch a basketball game in the end zone, Syracuse's program will have a lot less appeal than it did during the glory era.

There's a lot of uncertainty right now, and most of it is out of SU's control. But it's very possible that the basketball program's best days are behind it.

I'm pretty down on JB and the state of the program but this is a bit much.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm pretty down on JB and the state of the program but this is a bit much.

Then you might not be considering how good we have it right now. And that's on a downward trajectory that's going to be extremely difficult for a less capable coach to reverse.

 

[longislandcuse]

Then you might not be considering how good we have it right now. And that's on a downward trajectory that's going to be extremely difficult for a less capable coach to reverse.

Why are we assuming a new coach is going to be worse? JB is a legend but his best days seem to be behind him as well.

JB's coaching philosophy didn't cause MTSU to upset MSU. It didn't cause Malachi Richardson to go beast mode on UVA.

He's not getting it done on the recruiting trail and the zone along with his offensive scheme is played out.

Time to move on and moving on doesn't mean get worse.

 

[two3zone]

I think we're at a crossroads of where we could lose that distinction BUT here's where CBB's ridiculousness saves us.. The Final 4's. Average fans don't know how bad we've sucked recently. They just know we're regularly in the Final 4.

99% of average fans still think we're borderline elite even if our play certainly doesn't warrant it.

Average fans were calling for the committes heads because they didn't think we should be in.

I live outside of the Cuse nation, reports aren't favoriable for us.

 

[JoeySimz]

You don't get it. Cal gets superstuds to buy in and play team ball. Do you know how hard that is? JB gets very good talent and has then rotate side to side with their hands in the air on defense and then look for a steal and break as offense or fire up a 3 as the shot clock is winding down. Cal blooooows JB outta the water as a schematic and motivational coach.

I have to say this is the most bullshit thing I've heard in..Couldn't help myself sorry.

Oh I get it. You are just another sounding board for ESPNs 24 hr coverage of UK aka the NBA draft. Sounds like something Dino Guadio or Fran F would say. Your last sentence just shows how little respect you have for OUR coach who has more than proven himself over several decades.

Wow Cal gets superstuds to buy in and play team ball. I suppose you think Cal would do a better job than JB with our players while JB would fail miserably with a stable full of superstuds. It just must be his lack of scheme and motivation. At least try and make a fair comparison.

 

[OttoMets]

Why are we assuming a new coach is going to be worse? JB is a legend but his best days seem to be behind him as well.

JB's coaching philosophy didn't cause MTSU to upset MSU. It didn't cause Malachi Richardson to go beast mode on UVA.

He's not getting it done on the recruiting trail and the zone along with his offensive scheme is played out.

Time to move on and moving on doesn't mean get worse.

Here's the assumption: because Boeheim is so good at his profession (everyone acknowledges that he's a great coach, even this frequent critic), it's just statistically unlikely that his replacement will be as good.

And if that's true, it's possible (or likely) that we'll be worse as a program as a result. Because if Boeheim at 80% (as I believe he is, with his missing offense and his weird personnel decisions) is a .600 coach, then I'm worried - what'll Hopkins do? And what'll the repercussions be?

 

[longislandcuse]

Average fans were calling for the committes heads because they didn't think we should be in.

I live outside of the Cuse nation, reports aren't favoriable for us.

I do too but Final 4's have a way of changing perception.

Clients in Greenville, SC walk into my office, look at my framed Cuse Carrier Dome vs Duke poster and gush about how awesome we are. ...and lately I have to like nahhhh, we're really not.

 

[longislandcuse]

Here's the assumption: because Boeheim is so good at his profession (everyone acknowledges that he's a great coach, even this frequent critic), it's just statistically unlikely that his replacement will be as good.

And if that's true, it's possible (or likely) that we'll be worse as a program as a result. Because if Boeheim at 80% (as I believe he is, with his missing offense and his weird personnel decisions) is a .600 coach, then I'm worried - what'll Hopkins do? And what'll the repercussions be?

Well, if Hop is the replacement, I worry as well. I'm in the National Coaching Search camp.

 

[weepeel]

I would say the issue is more a recruiting issue than coaching issues...the reason we had so much success last year was that our three guard rotation was composed of two redshirt seniors who played together for years and a stud freshman who play up to/beyond his competition...can't go all in on one guard and have no plan B...we are not kentucky, duke, unc, or even Arizona

In college basketball guard play is of paramount importance...If you want to get deep in march and have a change to win it you need a stellar backcourt...Syracuse cannot go two to three seasons at a time with tremendous weakness at the PG position and expect to build on any importance in a league the caliber of the ACC...

Syracuse can no longer stand to have low iq/underachieving guards in the ACC...this is not like the old big east...

It is especially disappointing since we will most likely waste the remaining year we have left with Tyler Lydon...a great talent that if we had the guard play to support him could be averaging 25ppg and have a shot to cut down the nets

#rant over

 

[Ish88888]

I have to say this is the most bullshit thing I've heard in..Couldn't help myself sorry.

Oh I get it. You are just another sounding board for ESPNs 24 hr coverage of UK aka the NBA draft. Sounds like something Dino Guadio or Fran F would say. Your last sentence just shows how little respect you have for OUR coach who has more than proven himself over several decades.

Wow Cal gets superstuds to buy in and play team ball. I suppose you think Cal would do a better job than JB with our players while JB would fail miserably with a stable full of superstuds. It just must be his lack of scheme and motivation. At least try and make a fair comparison.

What? Your post doesnt make any sense. They both recruit different players, and yes, JB, WOULDN'T develop Cals recruits like he does. No way. The waving hands zone and no half court offense wouldnt be development. Geeez, just look at the draft trends the last few years. Cal and Kentucky isnt a place to pick your fight! Cal makes studs blend, buy in, play hard, accept 18 min/game.

 

[orangetrojan]

I hate to say this but I had no idea Oregon state was actually a very good program many decades ago, now no one even realizes they have a program. Their story seems a bit similar to Syracuse's in that they had a really good loyal coach for decades and hen when he retired thy hired from within instead of building off of that success by hiring a real coach. They eventually lost momentum. I really hope Syracuse does not go that way but other than history I'm not really sure what Syracuse offers recruits.

I really hope this is just a "the sky is falling" attitude but unfortunately his is something I've thought about well before this season began.

 

[dasher]

Jay Wright is the only thing that can save our program and there's no way he'd come here.

lol The only thing to save our program?? Before they won last year, there were plenty of Nova fans that wanted to run him out of town because of their flame outs at the end of seasons.

 

[dasher]

Funny that some on this board are finally getting it. The structure of the way the NCAA champ is decided has kept jimmy afloat in recent years. Again, bad way to decide a national champ. So , we turned it on for 3 weeks last year in march. That said, we have been wildly inconsistent with superior talent the last 10-12 years. Cal blows JB OUTTA the water. It's a joke.

Nonsense. we were #1 seeds twice in that decade. And cal is coaching at a place that Syracuse will never be, No matter who is coaching us.

 

[dasher]

Why are we assuming a new coach is going to be worse? JB is a legend but his best days seem to be behind him as well.

JB's coaching philosophy didn't cause MTSU to upset MSU. It didn't cause Malachi Richardson to go beast mode on UVA.

He's not getting it done on the recruiting trail and the zone along with his offensive scheme is played out.

Time to move on and moving on doesn't mean get worse.

Sounds a lot like what was said about P and the decision to go get grob.

 

[OttoMets]

Well, if Hop is the replacement, I worry as well. I'm in the National Coaching Search camp.

I agree that this would be the smartest move, but once they signed the contract with Hopkins it'd be all kinds of wrong to conduct an outside search. Gotta give him an opportunity.

If it comes to that, I do worry that we'd have trouble finding the right coach. No sure things out there, as we've seen with football. And I don't think we'd be high on the most sought-after coaches' list of options, given financial and other shortcomings.

 

[Cuse House]

I agree that this would be the smartest move, but once they signed the contract with Hopkins it'd be all kinds of wrong to conduct an outside search. Gotta give him an opportunity.

If it comes to that, I do worry that we'd have trouble finding the right coach. No sure things out there, as we've seen with football. And I don't think we'd be high on the most sought-after coaches' list of options, given financial and other shortcomings.

The head basketball coach at Syracuse University is compensated in many other ways above and beyond what the school will pay them. JB makes plenty from other endorsements. I don't think a million or two dollars a year just from the contract side of things would scare top mid-major coaches away.

 

[OttoMets]

The head basketball coach at Syracuse University is compensated in many other ways above and beyond what the school will pay them. JB makes plenty from other endorsements. I don't think a million or two dollars a year just from the contract side of things would scare top mid-major coaches away.

Oh, you're right about that. I was thinking of more top-end coaches.

We'd have to be good at picking among mid-major guys, tough game to play.

 

[FrancoPizza]

This is the 3rd thread im saying this in because now there are so many coaching threads. But Syverud officially announced last summer that Hop is the next HC starting in 18/19.

There's been speculation that JB would step away earlier to avoid the farewell tour. Just speculation at this point or more to it?

We need to venture into the great beyond sooner than later. If it's hop so be it; let's see what he can do on a short leash. We just need to move beyond this lame duck status.

 

[JoeySimz]

What? Your post doesnt make any sense. They both recruit different players, and yes, JB, WOULDN'T develop Cals recruits like he does. No way. The waving hands zone and no half court offense wouldnt be development. Geeez, just look at the draft trends the last few years. Cal and Kentucky isnt a place to pick your fight! Cal makes studs blend, buy in, play hard, accept 18 min/game.

Maybe you read my post wrong. You started this by imo incorrectly stating that we have been "widely inconsistent with superior talent" and then "cal blows jb out of the water" in scheme and development. And followed up with more love for Calipari and his "development" of "superstuds", somewhat oxymoronic if your comparing the development of Karl Towns, Devin Booker and Tyler Ulis to Buss, BJ, and Chinoso for ex. I'm saying give JB the number one or two class every year and then we'll see who develops who. Or give Cal our last few recruiting classes and see what he does with that.

If you want to say Cal is a better recruiter, I totally agree. I don't think any of us would argue with that. We're not even in the same ballpark. The "big swing and a miss" on Quade as someone so fittingly put it, might screw us for next year too. We have issues right now. We are not Kentucky.

I just don't understand how you follow a team that you seem to dislike everything about. I'm sure there is something you like, no? Maybe you should stop following Syracuse and switch to Kentucky. You gotta lotta love for Cal and it would be easier to cheer for all those future nba stars.

 

[SWC75]

A rational discussion requires a rational question and deciding to "blow things up" because we are off to a poor start is irrational.

 

[Ish88888]

Maybe you read my post wrong. You started this by imo incorrectly stating that we have been "widely inconsistent with superior talent" and then "cal blows jb out of the water" in scheme and development. And followed up with more love for Calipari and his "development" of "superstuds", somewhat oxymoronic if your comparing the development of Karl Towns, Devin Booker and Tyler Ulis to Buss, BJ, and Chinoso for ex. I'm saying give JB the number one or two class every year and then we'll see who develops who. Or give Cal our last few recruiting classes and see what he does with that.

If you want to say Cal is a better recruiter, I totally agree. I don't think any of us would argue with that. We're not even in the same ballpark. The "big swing and a miss" on Quade as someone so fittingly put it, might screw us for next year too. We have issues right now. We are not Kentucky.

I just don't understand how you follow a team that you seem to dislike everything about. I'm sure there is something you like, no? Maybe you should stop following Syracuse and switch to Kentucky. You gotta lotta love for Cal and it would be easier to cheer for all those future nba stars.

Nope, why would i stop following my team? I am 45 and grew up with pearls teams and loved it. Thing is JB has lost his coaching fastball years ago and tbe whole coach in waiting thing is national joke. Who does that for 15-20 years? In that time we are only relevant d/t the dome and its attendance potential. We seduce recruits. Once in the program, the player development is comical. Thus, resulting in pooor play on the court. Cal coaches his balls off all year, its a process and you see players get better as the year goes on as well as the TEAM.