Is this close to the O we ran

[TheCusian]

It was just a question. I dont know whats wrong w some of you people. The response about s&c and two weeks before the season is kind of funny. Like that speaks to the substantive product on the field.

This is a major, major difference. The whole program was being reshaped the moment Babers took the job. The defense chosen to compliment the offense. S&C to make sure they can go tempo (that is faster than Hackett). Tons and tons of concepts built over 20 years.

Or Hackett stumbling on no huddle RPO. They didn't even get the running connection until mid way into the season.

Substantive.

 

[Scooch]

Something interesting I just looked up... In 2012 the two games that made that season were against Louisville and Mizzou, in those games we ran 75 and 62 plays respectively. So again I suspect there are elements of similarity between that year's offense and today's, but clearly the pace was not similar, and that's such a huge hallmark of what we have now.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It was just a question. I dont know whats wrong w some of you people.

The response about s&c and two weeks before the season is kind of funny. Like that speaks to the substantive product on the field.

Well, the idea there is that Babers had a specific vision of the system from the very start, whereas Marrone made a last minute decision to do something very different from the offenses he had here. That matters.

Let's give credit to Marrone for orchestrating a better offense than we had seen in a long time. But let's not give him so much credit that we put it on par with the historically unprecedented offensive system Babers is a disciple of.

 

[Jake]

Syracuse football quarterback Ryan Nassib flying high in offensive system installed on the fly

At fort drum the second team defense was controlling Marrones offense.

It was Hacketts idea to ditch it.

 

[jgeorge322]

If i remember correctly, didnt we rely heavily on slants and the middle of the field in 2012. Will be very interesting to see how this offense adapts from game to game depending on the defense.

 

[GoSU96]

I imagine most every offense has some things in common with others. I also suspect that the 2012 offense was very much a moment in time, enabled by unique circumstances. We'll never know but I'm doubtful that was a "system", and had Marrone returned in 2013 we wouldn't have seen a similar approach without Nassib, Sales, Lemon and Pugh.

So if the argument is that we would have had a rip roaring O post-2012 had Marrone stayed I find that highly unlikely. What we're seeing implemented today is a known quantity that, hopefully, will be intact and functioning well years from now.

That's right, they would have scrapped and started running wishbone.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That's right, they would have scrapped and started running wishbone.

I suppose we'll never know.

 

[GoSU96]

Something interesting I just looked up... In 2012 the two games that made that season were against Louisville and Mizzou, in those games we ran 75 and 62 plays respectively. So again I suspect there are elements of similarity between that year's offense and today's, but clearly the pace was not similar, and that's such a huge hallmark of what we have now.

They ran 75 and 76 plays and had 524 and 508 yds of offense respectively. For the year they averaged 79 plays a game. Last year BG averaged 81 and they had games where they ran 74, 71, 75, 69, 76, and 72 plays.

What's up with that?

Again I wanted Phil Montgomery here after Marrone left, so I'm all in, I think Babers is a home run.

The outrage to a straightforward answer to a simple question is ridiculous.

 

[NJCuse97]

IIRC, Marrone deemed his New Orleans based pro offense, devised by Sean Peyton, too complex and the college players just weren't picking it up. Hackett, of his own offensive pedigree remembered the simplicity, power, and efficiency of the K-gun both he and Marrone found on a shelf and studied while both were in Buffalo for an earlier stint. Marrone saw overlaps with his system, and Hackett saw the simplicity that college kids could probably grasp. My understanding is they always talked about it, but only implemented it out of desperation. It worked well and I have a hard time thinking they would not have stuck with it. McF tried to bring in elements of what we have now (spread, bubbles, quick with lots of plays) but while he knew the buzz words, or some of the pieces, he had no idea how to put it together or make it work, so what we got was the abomination we saw for 2 years. Babers brings that know how, Marrone's discipline, and the experience to run it and get buy in from the players, and the fans.

 

[GoSU96]

Well, the idea there is that Babers had a specific vision of the system from the very start, whereas Marrone made a last minute decision to do something very different from the offenses he had here. That matters.

Let's give credit to Marrone for orchestrating a better offense than we had seen in a long time. But let's not give him so much credit that we put it on par with the historically unprecedented offensive system Babers is a disciple of.

Holy crap, is any of that what I said. The guy wanted to know if there were any similarities. Fact is there are quite a few.

You take that innocuous fact and blow it up into some kind of value judgment about one vs another.

You're nuts.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Holy crap, is any of that what I said. The guy wanted to know if there were any similarities. Fact is there are quite a few.

You take that innocuous fact and blow it up into some kind of value judgment about one vs another.

You're nuts.

You don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore when it comes to commenting on anything related to Marrone. This isn't a me and you having differences of opinion thing - you've posted enough stuff in favor of Marrone to an overboard extent that it's predictable and easily dismissed.

 

[Scooch]

That's right, they would have scrapped and started running wishbone.

Well, we'll never know.

Whatever they ran from 2009-11 basically stunk, so I'm glad the last minute change of heart in late August 2012 occurred.

 

[GoSU96]

This is a major, major difference. The whole program was being reshaped the moment Babers took the job. The defense chosen to compliment the offense. S&C to make sure they can go tempo (that is faster than Hackett). Tons and tons of concepts built over 20 years.

Or Hackett stumbling on no huddle RPO. They didn't even get the running connection until mid way into the season.

Substantive.

No it's not.

Didn't even get the running connection until midway in the season, you have any substantiation for that?

 

[jgeorge322]

You don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore when it comes to commenting on anything related to Marrone. This isn't a me and you having differences of opinion thing - you've posted enough stuff in favor of Marrone to an overboard extent that it's predictable and easily dismissed.

Whatever your personal vendetta may be, gosu is the only person whose post was actually responsive to the question/topic. Saying that the 2012 offense was a fluke or our s&c is better (remember mitch browning) matters not.

 

[Scooch]

They ran 75 and 76 plays and had 524 and 508 yds of offense respectively. For the year they averaged 79 plays a game. Last year BG averaged 81 and they had games where they ran 74, 71, 75, 69, 76, and 72 plays. What's up with that? Again I wanted Phil Montgomery here after Marrone left, so I'm all in, I think Babers is a home run. The outrage to a straightforward answer to a simple question is ridiculous.

Look, I'm glad that 3 1/2 years after Marrone promised a fast paced offense that he got it implemented. 2012 was the best 7-5 regular season we've had here in a long time, and I thoroughly enjoyed those last 4 games of that season.

I'm sure there are similarities between Babaers system and what we ran that year.

 

[GoSU96]

You don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore when it comes to commenting on anything related to Marrone. This isn't a me and you having differences of opinion thing - you've posted enough stuff in favor of Marrone to an overboard extent that it's predictable and easily dismissed.

Alright Eggs. What exactly has been overboard, other than not agreeing with you that he sucked.

Simple question, straightforward fact based answer given.

Why don't you tell us again how George McDonald was just what this program needed.

 

[GoSU96]

Look, I'm glad that 3 1/2 years after Marrone promised a fast paced offense that he got it implemented. 2012 was the best 7-5 regular season we've had here in a long time, and I thoroughly enjoyed those last 4 games of that season.

I'm sure there are similarities between Babaers system and what we ran that year.

Since you seem to be so hung up on the numbers of plays they went 95 plays/596yds, 87/455, and 80/549 plays the first three games that year.

Not sure where you are getting the 1/2 from.

 

[TheCusian]

No it's not. Didn't even get the running connection until midway in the season, you have any substantiation for that?

Yep:

1st 6 games we avg: 36att for 128per
Last 6 + 1 we avg: 49att for 238per

 

[Scooch]

Since you seem to be so hung up on the numbers of plays they went 95 plays/596yds, 87/455, and 80/549 plays the first three games that year. Not sure where you are getting the 1/2 from.

I'm not that hung up in it, honestly. I think there's a difference in comparing what we saw that one specific year to this multi-year system. In terms of # of plays, I imagine that one of the big reasons we ran so many plays those first two games of 2012 was that we were down big early in the second half of each game and needed to play hurry-up and throw almost exclusively to try and catch up. But I don't have a breakdown of plays by half so maybe I'm wrong.

The "half" comment is just about us being 4-5 nine games into the season before we we won last 3 with a flourish. People have very fond remembrances of the year but it's really the last 3 regular season games and the throttling of WVU in the Pinstripe that made the year successful. Thankfully we pulled out that last minute win at USF to make it all possible.

 

[dlegend44]

The HCDB offense reminds of the FHCGR offense. Babers is willing to go for it on 4th down frequently while Robinson used to admit defeat and punt on 3rd down. Oh wait, maybe that is the opposite...I wasn't a math major.

The offense looked great and it was as fun for me to watch as the Marrone offense with Nassib. I like FHCSS and thought he was a great person but we seem to be back on the right track with Babers.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Alright Eggs. What exactly has been overboard, other than not agreeing with you that he sucked.

Simple question, straightforward fact based answer given.

Why don't you tell us again how George McDonald was just what this program needed.

As just one example, not too long ago you wrote a post touting the brightness of the future of the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Now why on earth would you care about the Jaguars? What possible reason might you have to believe in them?

I'm not surprised my comments on McDonald to this day go over your head. McDonald had the right idea - speed up the offense and play to the Dome's strengths. He just so happened to be particularly ill equipped to carry out the concept and couldn't execute. It is what it is, but it was the right gamble to roll the dice on a guy like him that at least had the right idea and could have been an up and comer. We're not going anywhere better than scraping in to bowl games playing traditional football. So we needed to take a chance on adapting to what's working in college football, McDonald had the right idea, and he and it failed. It happens. At the time he was our guy, might as well have hoped he was on the right track. And again, he was, he was also utterly incapable of seeing it through. You want to ignore the nuance, that's fine. It's just a little weird to ignore the nuance when you buy in wholesale to a .500 coach as being the greatest thing ever.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Oh, and one other thing - check out what SWC transcribed at The Coach Babers Show- before Colgate. The comment about Babers re: "secret sauce" might just be interesting for those that don't understand my previous posts in this thread.

 

[SWC75]

I recall the 2012 offense being a fairly conventional drop-back passing offense that worked because we had a senior quarterback and senior receivers who were very good college-level players. I do think they went no-huddle but it wasn't what we are seeing now.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I recall the 2012 offense being a fairly conventional drop-back passing offense that worked because we had a senior quarterback and senior receivers who were very good college-level players. I do think they went no-huddle but it wasn't what we are seeing now.

Didn't we also have senior RBs and a pretty good line with an NFL prospect on it that allows us to do a ton of play action?

 

[TheCusian]

The similarities are in tempo and in the use of RPO's. But one system was found accidentally and had 4 plays run to great affect. This system is all grown up vs one in its infancy.