It's showtime -- let the (NBA) games begin!

[Melancer46]

The Knicks still have hope with Porzingis and this year's draft pick. If they tank hard enough after the seemingly inevitable Melo trade, they could end up with Porzingis and a star PG to build around. The Noah contract was hilariously dumb at the time though, and that'll definitely hurt for a few years.

 

[Melancer46]

Just spit-balling, but again, assuming Boston isn't getting Melo but is involved in the trade, how much incentive would they need in order to swap Amir Johnson for Joakim Noah? Noah could at least help some in terms of addressing Boston's needs for rebounding and defense, and also helps slide Horford over to PF while Noah is on the floor.

Would removing the lottery protection the Clippers pick that they already have + another future 1st be enough? Perhaps swapping Noah's contract out for Crawford's (who they can cut after next season I believe for basically only $3 million) along with Rivers and Amir's expiring contract would be enough to satisfy both the Clippers and Knicks.

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

 

[shandeezy7]

Just spit-balling, but again, assuming Boston isn't getting Melo but is involved in the trade, how much incentive would they need in order to swap Amir Johnson for Joakim Noah? Noah could at least help some in terms of addressing Boston's needs for rebounding and defense, and also helps slide Horford over to PF while Noah is on the floor.

Would removing the lottery protection the Clippers pick that they already have + another future 1st be enough? Perhaps swapping Noah's contract out for Crawford's (who they can cut after next season I believe for basically only $3 million) along with Rivers and Amir's expiring contract would be enough to satisfy both the Clippers and Knicks.

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

I can't see anyone trading for Noah's contract. Maybe if he only had 1 year after this one, but not 3 years.

 

[Melancer46]

I can't see anyone trading for Noah's contract. Maybe if he only had 1 year after this one, but not 3 years.

Not on its own, but if it comes with 1.5 first round picks, I think you could find someone.

 

[Knicks411]

If the Bulls made Jimmy Butler available, Boston has to make put the Nets pick in play, right?

once Melo is gone, the Knicks will spend 3-5 years chasing his production and will never find it.

it will stamp them as a 3o win team for sure.

They're on pace to win 35 this year, they won 32 last year, and 17 the year before. They haven't been much better than a 30 win team with Melo.

 

[KaiserUEO]

If the Bulls made Jimmy Butler available, Boston has to make put the Nets pick in play, right?



They're on pace to win 35 this year, they won 32 last year, and 17 the year before. They haven't been much better than a 30 win team with Melo.

youre right, they havnt been anything other than that.

I guess my point is that I feel the potential is there for more with Melo than without him. granted the proof is right there in the pudding that 50 wins doesn't seem like its coming, but damn...not sure why id trade away a superstar, when they will only go out there looking for another one.

and I don't think they'll find one.

 

[Knicks411]

youre right, they havnt been anything other than that.

I guess my point is that I feel the potential is there for more with Melo than without him. granted the proof is right there in the pudding that 50 wins doesn't seem like its coming, but damn...not sure why id trade away a superstar, when they will only go out there looking for another one.

and I don't think they'll find one.

I just don't know how much longer Melo is a superstar (I mean, depending upon your definition, he isn't one now, but the point remains, he's not getting any younger) and I don't see much hope of them doing anything in the next year or 2 either way.

 

[Melancer46]

youre right, they havnt been anything other than that.

I guess my point is that I feel the potential is there for more with Melo than without him. granted the proof is right there in the pudding that 50 wins doesn't seem like its coming, but damn...not sure why id trade away a superstar, when they will only go out there looking for another one.

and I don't think they'll find one.

The biggest thing to get by trading Melo is the improved odds in the lottery. It's a pretty stacked class, and if the Knicks find their way into the top 5, they can likely lock down a franchise PG for the foreseeable future. Pair a potential all-star talent at PG with another all-star talent in Porzingis, and then factor in the potential salary cap relief you get by trading Melo and you have the start of a nice foundation there.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I just don't know how much longer Melo is a superstar (I mean, depending upon your definition, he isn't one now, but the point remains, he's not getting any younger) and I don't see much hope of them doing anything in the next year or 2 either way.

hes definitely on the back 9 and is not the horse you need to carry a team, but as the 2nd or 3rd banana, I think he has a role here.

granted, im Cuse biased, but hes the biggest star since the big fella to call the Garden home...and I don't see an imminent path to success sans Melo.

 

[Knicks411]

hes definitely on the back 9 and is not the horse you need to carry a team, but as the 2nd or 3rd banana, I think he has a role here.

granted, im Cuse biased, but hes the biggest star since the big fella to call the Garden home...and I don't see an imminent path to success sans Melo.

I don't think there is an imminent path to success with or without the guy. It's probably going to take a few years.

I do agree on a team where he's the second or third guy he can do some real damage.

 

[Knicks411]

The biggest thing to get by trading Melo is the improved odds in the lottery. It's a pretty stacked class, and if the Knicks find their way into the top 5, they can likely lock down a franchise PG for the foreseeable future. Pair a potential all-star talent at PG with another all-star talent in Porzingis, and then factor in the potential salary cap relief you get by trading Melo and you have the start of a nice foundation there.

yes there are so many good PG prospects. we NEED to get one, and the draft is the best option.

 

[Alsacs]

hes definitely on the back 9 and is not the horse you need to carry a team, but as the 2nd or 3rd banana, I think he has a role here.

granted, im Cuse biased, but hes the biggest star since the big fella to call the Garden home...and I don't see an imminent path to success sans Melo.

Melo has been called Bernard King 2.0 for atleast 5 years by NBA people like Bill Simmons.

That is a good comp for Melo. Bernard was a legend at MSG and only got beyond the first round during his time with the Knicks just like Melo. He needed more support to win a title but he could win a title if he became a supporting player to Lebron. Melo did hurt the Knicks by how he was acquired. He cost the Knicks a lot because he wanted to be traded before the CBA expired. Melo messed up by not getting an opt-out for the 2010 like Bosh/Wade/Lebron all did.

His acquisition cost the Knicks a lot of assets. That is why I can't see Dolan signing off on trading for cents on the dollar.

 

[br801]

hes definitely on the back 9 and is not the horse you need to carry a team, but as the 2nd or 3rd banana, I think he has a role here.

granted, im Cuse biased, but hes the biggest star since the big fella to call the Garden home...and I don't see an imminent path to success sans Melo.

He certainly has a lot of mileage on him, but he can still carry a team on his shoulders pretty well for a guy Phil's mouthpiece claimed is finished as an elite player.

 

[shandeezy7]

Melo has been called Bernard King 2.0 for atleast 5 years by NBA people like Bill Simmons.

That is a good comp for Melo. Bernard was a legend at MSG and only got beyond the first round during his time with the Knicks just like Melo. He needed more support to win a title but he could win a title if he became a supporting player to Lebron. Melo did hurt the Knicks by how he was acquired. He cost the Knicks a lot because he wanted to be traded before the CBA expired. Melo messed up by not getting an opt-out for the 2010 like Bosh/Wade/Lebron all did.

His acquisition cost the Knicks a lot of assets. That is why I can't see Dolan signing off on trading for cents on the dollar.

It did cost them a lot of assets, and I wish they could have just waited until the offseason and sign him straight up, but I'm not sure trading those pieces to Denver cost them all that much. The one guy I would have really liked to have held onto was Gallinari, as I think he was coming into his own at the time of the trade, and he would have been a great complementary player to Carmelo. Probably would mean no Porzingis in NY now though.

 

[Knicks411]

He certainly has a lot of mileage on him, but he can still carry a team on his shoulders pretty well for a guy Phil's mouthpiece claimed is finished as an elite player.

You think? I generally think elite players should tend to at least get their teams over 500. The Knicks haven't been there in a while.

 

[Knicks411]

It did cost them a lot of assets, and I wish they could have just waited until the offseason and sign him straight up, but I'm not sure trading those pieces to Denver cost them all that much. The one guy I would have really liked to have held onto was Gallinari, as I think he was coming into his own at the time of the trade, and he would have been a great complementary player to Carmelo. Probably would mean no Porzingis in NY now though.

It's a total butterfly effect; impossible to say. Gallo and Chandler are decent players, Mozgov went for 2 late first round picks a few years ago, they had to take back Billups (who I thought was a good player) and then amnesty him to sign Chandler; maybe they could have got out from the Amare deal a year or two earlier, plus they gave up a first rounder and then a swap of a first rounder, which may have emboldened them to trade the swap rights for bargnani. Like i said, butterfly effect.

 

[Melancer46]

You think? I generally think elite players should tend to at least get their teams over 500. The Knicks haven't been there in a while.

Eh, it depends a lot on the supporting cast. One player can do a lot in the NBA, it's hard to carry a team of scrubs above .500 in today's league.

Having said that, I don't think Melo is elite anymore at all. He's probably around the 30th best player today if I had to guess.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Eh, it depends a lot on the supporting cast. One player can do a lot in the NBA, it's hard to carry a team of scrubs above .500 in today's league.

Having said that, I don't think Melo is elite anymore at all. He's probably around the 30th best player today if I had to guess.

Agreed. At the end of the day, they are just such a mess, I don't know What to do. I like KP, Herangomez and Kuzminsgas at this point. Really surprised Holiday missed those two nice open looks yesterday in the 3rd OT? Lee drives me nuts, for every good thing he does, there are equal bad parts. I just don't know anymore, but I keep watching. Yesterday's game was just a great watch.

I officially have given up on even trying to predict what makes sense at what doesn't but I will be around when they right the ship. I hung in with the Cubs and I never thought they would turn it around. Don't see a Theo on the horizon though, but they really need it

 

[Knicks411]

Eh, it depends a lot on the supporting cast. One player can do a lot in the NBA, it's hard to carry a team of scrubs above .500 in today's league.

Having said that, I don't think Melo is elite anymore at all. He's probably around the 30th best player today if I had to guess.

I get that, of course. I mean I would say Demarcus Cousins is elite, and the Kings have been terrible. KG the last 2 years before Minnesota traded him. Anthony Davis with the Pelicans. So there can be extenuating circumstances. But Melo has a negative net rating this year, not sure how many elite players you could find who have a negative net rating.

 

[br801]

You think? I generally think elite players should tend to at least get their teams over 500. The Knicks haven't been there in a while.

There have been some extenuating circumstances for Melo in NY with bumbling front office moves, a revolving door at coach, and some less than adequate supporting casts, particularly in the backcourt. He's obviously not the player he was a few years ago, but he's not far off.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

In addition, not sure the allure to play in NYC is there for many of these younger guys anymore, Knicks have been so bad for so long. Maybe just me

 

[br801]

In addition, not sure the allure to play in NYC is there for many of these younger guys anymore, Knicks have been so bad for so long. Maybe just me

I agree, the allure of playing in NY is long gone, save for someone like Melo.

 

[Melancer46]

I think players will go to almost any city as long as the team is very good and the fit is right.

 

[Knicks411]

I think players will go to almost any city as long as the team is very good and the fit is right.

I think the biggest takeaway from the last few years of FA is that winning is king. (I mean money too, but that's always the been the case). Guys want to go somewhere they can get a ring.

 

[KaiserUEO]

*people don't want to play in NYC because they are too Fn lazy.

they know they cant take a night off on the Knicks because they will be called out on it by the media and fans.

everybody comes to NY and brings their A game, they don't want to have bring their A game 41x.



*said the disgruntled, very angry, without answers...life long fan.