It's Time to Pull the Plug on Babers

[44cuse]

This is a long discussion for a different thread, but I feel like we went from being a regular top 25 entrant with a fringe chance at a top 5-10 type season to a middling team in the early 2000s. The coaching style of that regime became stale and the admin was too slow to respond. Then when they did they panicked and made wrong hire and effectively poured gasoline over the smoldering burning our our program.

Had they made a move a couple years earlier they could have saved it. Had they made a better choice when they finally did they Maybe could have saved it. But those two errors in combination set us so far back and we have never fully recovered IMO.

It is the 20 year anniversary of "Get a life". Hard to believe...but I think it is.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

BC has been in a bowl 17 of the last 20 years.

BC composite SAT 1405
SU composite SAT 1255

Similar recruiting issues. You can routinely bowl with higher academics. We should be in a better position than them, in that regard.

Clemson composite 1305
VTech composite 1268
Pitt composite 1330
FSU composite 1260
Virginia 1365

No place for stats and facts on this board. (Well done though)

44cuse

 

[bcubs9497]

Bees, all of that stuff you mentioned just puts us where others have been for several years.

IPF - SU was one of the last to get one, should have been one of the first
Private flights for recruiting - most P5 Schools have been doing that forever. That started less than 4 years ago when Babers got here. Crazy Eyes had a stinking helicopter.

The football budget was increased to pay the staff more and add more staff. That we are all aware of.

I truly believe Babers is the right guy for the job, but he needs help. And lots of it.

None of that seems to have had an effect on the talent level we are able to recruit. Which will absolutely have an effect on the "on field" product and wins.

I hope they continue to invest because stopping when you haven't gotten to where you can beat in conference peer schools is not a good place to stop. Wake, BC, NC State, Virginia, Louisville.

What's the next step, now what?

SU paid for our flights (and step-parents, too) and hotel rooms. Pretty sure SU also paid for some, if not all, meals.

 

[bcubs9497]

BTW, it's NOT time to pull the plug. Building a competitive team and environment that routinely wins 8+ games a year takes time. "Coach swapping" doesn't help, at all, in creating the environment.

 

[CuseLegacy]

SU paid for our flights (and step-parents, too) and hotel rooms. Pretty sure SU also paid for some, if not all, meals.

The NCAA increased the number of family that a school could pay for on an official visit during. I believe, Steven's recruitment period. Before that they only allowed the schools to pay for one parent and the recruit's travel, food and accommodations on an official visit.

 

[tipphill]

Yes, Manley was originally built to be a football practice facility but it wasn't used as that very much. Then it was changed so that you couldn't practice football in there because it was a basketball court and bleachers. It was then renovated back under Gross in 2010 to be used as indoor practice for football as well as track and 10 other sports. It also wasn't a full football field and limited the kicking game.

I know the history of the building.

1 - If Manley was enough and we already had 2 indoor facilities, why did we build the Ensley Center? Exactly, it wasn't good enough and football needed a facility of their "own". Other sports use it but Football is the priority.

2 - I didn't see football recruits leaving campus impressed with Manley and wanting to come here. Or the Dome for that matter. Just go to any one of the services and look at our recruiting rankings. The Dome brought in recruits when it was first built, not so much anymore. I think kickers love to come to Syracuse and we have had some ones.

i miss watching basketball games in manley

 

[CuseOnly]

i miss watching basketball games in manley

I, unfortunately never saw a game in Manley, wish I did. My parents didn't have that kind of disposable income at the time.

 

[CuseOnly]

BTW, it's NOT time to pull the plug. Building a competitive team and environment that routinely wins 8+ games a year takes time. "Coach swapping" doesn't help, at all, in creating the environment.

That's what I have been saying. Completely starting over every 4-6 years doesn't help. Supporting the staff we have now is the best option.

If Marrone was in the ACC at the time I believe that his record would be similar to Shafer and Babers.

So we have a coach "Saint Doug" that went .500 in an inferior league and left
A coach that got fired after going 14-23
A coach that is still here an has gone to date 22-26 about to be 22-27

So, what will the next coach do...I am guessing about the same regardless of what we pay him and his staff.

Talent has to be improved, figuring out the best way to do that is what has to happen. We need shiny new stuff to attract the athletes, that seems to work everywhere else.

 

[CuseOnly]

You tell me. What should they do that I didn’t mention? And stop saying housing. That’s in the plan.

I don't know, you seem to jump in with all the answers when someone says something. I was waiting for another one.

Someone mentioned above that Babers is getting all that he says he needs.

Must be we are doing great then, we should stand pat and see how it goes.

Maybe the housing is the answer and will get better athletes to come here, when exactly is that in the plan for? Are they building that this year or next?

 

[tipphill]

I, unfortunately never saw a game in Manley, wish I did. My parents didn't have that kind of disposable income at the time.

i had summer job money.

 

[Scooch]

You are kind of making my point. The upgrades to the staff salaries and what has been done with facilities hasn't upgraded the talent level much if at all.

Get ready for next year, we have to replace 3 Senior defensive ends a defensive tackle, so 3 of our starting front 4, and this years best linebacker. From our defense that was arguably one of the worst ever fielded here.

What are those guys getting replaced with?

Maybe your problem is with Dino, then? He seems to be getting killed on the recruiting trail by ACC peer schools who have similar facilities.

 

[gbo]

Lol at all the people in this thread that fell for orange79 troll handle...

 

[CuseOnly]

Maybe your problem is with Dino, then? He seems to be getting killed on the recruiting trail by ACC peer schools who have similar facilities.

You should read some of my posts. In no way shape or form do I want Dino fired. The problem IMO isn't with him, it's with the support he receives from the school.

He is the right guy for the job, in my opinion.

I don't want to get banned for voicing my opinion, it not popular to disagree. Especially to people that think everything is moving in the right direction when the record doesn't show improvement.

 

[qdawgg]

they’ve invested in the HC and staff salaries. They’ve increased the football budget including recruiting budget. They’ve invested in the fan experience. They’ve invested in facilities. They will continue investing in these things.

It doesn’t matter how many times you or anybody points all these things out. Some people just don’t listen.

 

[Cusefan69]

You should read some of my posts. In no way shape or form do I want Dino fired. The problem IMO isn't with him, it's with the support he receives from the school.

He is the right guy for the job, in my opinion.

I don't want to get banned for voicing my opinion, it not popular to disagree. Especially to people that think everything is moving in the right direction when the record doesn't show improvement.

Dude who said you would get banned for voicing an opinion? As long as you’re not being a total %#$&, calling people names or stating stupid racist kinda of stuff, you won’t get banned. Maybe if you state the same opinion 100 times in the same thread some people might wanna drain a bottle of Jamo...but banned for stating an opinion in a reasonable fashion. Nah...

 

[CuseOnly]

Dude who said you would get banned for voicing an opinion? As long as you’re not being a total %#$&, calling people names or stating stupid racist kinda of stuff, you won’t get banned. Maybe if you state the same opinion 100 times in the same thread some people might wanna drain a bottle of Jamo...but banned for stating an opinion in a reasonable fashion. Nah...

Here you go...

 

[HOFCeluck]

Here you go...
View attachment 173458

lol. Kaiser gonna Kaiser

 

[CuseOnly]

lol. Kaiser gonna Kaiser

It's funny when all evidence points to one result or conclusion.

People choose to believe something other than what they are seeing and hope.

I learned a long time ago, a long time ago that hope is not a strategy. Diligence, hard work, forethought and planning makes a strategy.

 

[MSOrange]

Here you go...
View attachment 173458

Kaiser isn't an admin. You really take him seriously?

 

[CuseOnly]

Kaiser isn't an admin. You really take him seriously?

I know he isn't an admin, but when someone say that type of stuff...

 

[Cusefan69]

I know he isn't an admin, but when someone say that type of stuff...

It usually means they have an over developed sense of self importance...that's about it or they are drunk. In Kaisers case it could be either. Unless the person is a mod I wouldn’t worry to much and being banned from a fansite isn’t something you should be to worried about being banned from in the first place. Happy Thanksgiving all!

 

[VirginiaOrange]

There was an interesting article in the Washington Post yesterday about how Navy turned it around this year in large part because the head coach had to fire his long-time friend/co-ordinator after a disastrous 2018 season. Exactly the position Dino is in with some of his guys who clearly need to be replaced. It has worked for Navy so let’s hope Dino hires two ACC caliber coordinators among others.

 

[Cuse9292]

The 10 win season is an outlier as things currently stand, and he did that in one of the worst seasons of ACC Football ever, you're talking FSU is in a panic, Miami is in a panic and they both just hired new coaches, now FSU has to go through it again, Va Tech isn't as stable as they'd like, other then Clemson everyone is blatantly average. Recruiting has to get better but that will take time, say we followed that 10 win season up with at least a 7-8 win season I think things would change a bit but there's not enough evidence to convince young kids that we are on the right trajectory.

He deserves more time but it's absolutely ridiculous to believe he's earned 3-4 more years here if there is no success. Look at LSU, their new pass game coordinator they brought over from the Saints changed EVERYTHING for them, I understand they get elite talent that we can't but I'm giving an example of a team that was scoring 9-20 points in big games and now throw for 400 yards a game and score 40-60 a game. This is also my way of stating that if we do move on it's going to be better to implement a pro style system, we are trying to sell kids on our staff and university helping these kids to the next level, that currently just isn't happening. There are so many young brains out there with new innovative ways of doing things, regardless of what some may think we are in a P5 conference and the salary that could be offered isn't going to look too bad to perspective coaches. With that said we might need to take on a coach that is looking to build up his career and if he has success he may bolt in 3-4-5 years for a better offer. That should be fine, he built the program up and took advantage of what that individual saw as a better offer and now it's on Wildhack to select someone to continue that success.

 

[Bayside44]

You should read some of my posts. In no way shape or form do I want Dino fired. The problem IMO isn't with him, it's with the support he receives from the school.

He is the right guy for the job, in my opinion.

I don't want to get banned for voicing my opinion, it not popular to disagree. Especially to people that think everything is moving in the right direction when the record doesn't show improvement.

Problem is when evidence to your assertion doesn’t hold up you haven’t ceded those points. 13 pages later.

 

[CuseOnly]

Problem is when evidence to your assertion doesn’t hold up you haven’t ceded those points. 13 pages later.

Lol, my evidence was very clear, and it points to one thing.

Who's posts have you been reading?