Jacksonville

[ClvrUsrnm]

I think you have to manage expectations. If your playing club expecting to get scholarship to top 20 program that's recipe for disappointment. Like someone stated above I enjoy going to these tournaments with my kids but it is somewhat costly. In upstate the most I have paid is about $2k. I'm assuming Florida Sweetlax is so much because of the travel to all the tournaments? Overall I think Club is good experience if you manage expectations.

It can be a good experience iiiiiiiiiiifffffffffff the team is coached well. Otherwise you just get to pay to see the kids get their heads kicked 4-5 times in two days.

 

[Bayside44]

Oh wow.
People are nuts. That extra year in HS or where ever is an extra year of lost income.
I have some crazy pictures from lax tournaments of wild size discrepancies between kids. In at least one case, it was a parent who insisted their kid played up, and I only have to guess on the other team that perhaps it was an early bloomer or a kid who was 'reclassed'. I'm talking like a 4'er 80 lbs next to a 6'er 170 lbs.

I believe it. The land of diminishing returns...

 

[Jack_Ball]

It can be a good experience iiiiiiiiiiifffffffffff the team is coached well. Otherwise you just get to pay to see the kids get their heads kicked 4-5 times in two days.

Don't get me wrong as there is plenty wrong with it too. Good coaching, Daddy Ball, Reclassing, Money Grabs but if you find a good club with a good coach that goes to the right tournaments it can be great experience while also managing expectations (haha)

 

[swish7]

I think you have to manage expectations. If your playing club expecting to get scholarship to top 20 program that's recipe for disappointment. Like someone stated above I enjoy going to these tournaments with my kids but it is somewhat costly. In upstate the most I have paid is about $2k. I'm assuming Florida Sweetlax is so much because of the travel to all the tournaments? Overall I think Club is good experience if you manage expectations.

5ish years ago, FL Sweetlax was something like $1,200 / tournament, for a 4th/5th grade team. I believe you are expected to go to at least 4 tournaments a year maybe more. 2 in the fall, 2-3 in the spring, and a couple in the summer if you are on the national team. There are special practices, that cost $150-$250, etc. Its a lot, unless you are an orthopedic surgeon.

It took my kid a couple years to make it, and when he did, only then did I come to realize what it cost. $1,200, plus the same for travel and hotel and probably a couple PTO days at work.

They started by just being a state / national team. They then added 'regional' teams, Krakens, etc, which competed with existing regional clubs but probably cost more. Then competition moved in, True, etc. Kids then jumped from SL to True, and maybe even back to SL. Its crazy.

That said, the founder Brooks Sweet (UMass) runs some great clinics. The tryouts were worth it just to get some teachings from him. He is no longer involved as of 4-5 years ago.

 

[swish7]

5ish years ago, FL Sweetlax was something like $1,200 / tournament, for a 4th/5th grade team. I believe you are expected to go to at least 4 tournaments a year maybe more. 2 in the fall, 2-3 in the spring, and a couple in the summer if you are on the national team. There are special practices, that cost $150-$250, etc. Its a lot, unless you are an orthopedic surgeon.

It took my kid a couple years to make it, and when he did, only then did I come to realize what it cost. $1,200, plus the same for travel and hotel and probably a couple PTO days at work.

They started by just being a state / national team. They then added 'regional' teams, Krakens, etc, which competed with existing regional clubs but probably cost more. Then competition moved in, True, etc. Kids then jumped from SL to True, and maybe even back to SL. Its crazy.

That said, the founder Brooks Sweet (UMass) runs some great clinics. The tryouts were worth it just to get some teachings from him. He is no longer involved as of 4-5 years ago.

Just to add, the year prior at 'call backs' there was a scrimmage at the end of tryouts. The scrimmage ended 3-3, or something like that and my kid scored one of the goals. He doesn't make the team. You find out later that only 3-4 kids make it and everyone else was just carried over from the prior year.

But, the next year, a bunch of kids get dissatisfied and leave and all of a sudden there is a special tryout or you get pulled up from an alternate spot.

With True, similar experience, 3-2 score in the scrimmage and my kid had one of the assists, and again doesn't make it. But, a year later, 2 kids whom were on my rec team are now on the True state team. Apparently they were called up from a True regional team and never had to tryout. At the same time, I learn that some kids did the state team for a while and a bunch left, which probably opened up spots for other kids whom were ultimately called up.

Its not a satisfying experience, or much of a learning experience, IMO. The antithesis of the 'creators game', IMO.

The best experience I have seen with club is when you can get your kid on the radar of other clubs where when they have a need they call you and say 'hey, want to come do a tournament in DE this weekend'? I have talked with some dads whose kids are on that circuit and are apparently having a lot of fun with it.

My kid did Brady's Bunch a couple times and that was a lot of fun. Another good time was the All American Games at UMass. Kind of expensive, but you got a lot of lacrosse in.

 

[Jack_Ball]

5ish years ago, FL Sweetlax was something like $1,200 / tournament, for a 4th/5th grade team. I believe you are expected to go to at least 4 tournaments a year maybe more. 2 in the fall, 2-3 in the spring, and a couple in the summer if you are on the national team. There are special practices, that cost $150-$250, etc. Its a lot, unless you are an orthopedic surgeon.

It took my kid a couple years to make it, and when he did, only then did I come to realize what it cost. $1,200, plus the same for travel and hotel and probably a couple PTO days at work.

They started by just being a state / national team. They then added 'regional' teams, Krakens, etc, which competed with existing regional clubs but probably cost more. Then competition moved in, True, etc. Kids then jumped from SL to True, and maybe even back to SL. Its crazy.

That said, the founder Brooks Sweet (UMass) runs some great clinics. The tryouts were worth it just to get some teachings from him. He is no longer involved as of 4-5 years ago.

I know it's not exactly the same but my daughter also plays club in Upstate and we have good friends that play for Florida Select (main girls club in FL) and she told me last summer they spent $15-20K in just travel expenses because all the main tournaments are in the northeast and they have to fly back to Florida for mid week practice. That ridiculous and I'm afraid that prices will keep going up which will make it unaffordable for the average kid.

 

[Jack_Ball]

Just to add, the year prior at 'call backs' there was a scrimmage at the end of tryouts. The scrimmage ended 3-3, or something like that and my kid scored one of the goals. He doesn't make the team. You find out later that only 3-4 kids make it and everyone else was just carried over from the prior year.

But, the next year, a bunch of kids get dissatisfied and leave and all of a sudden there is a special tryout or you get pulled up from an alternate spot.

With True, similar experience, 3-2 score in the scrimmage and my kid had one of the assists, and again doesn't make it. But, a year later, 2 kids whom were on my rec team are now on the True state team. Apparently they were called up from a True regional team and never had to tryout. At the same time, I learn that some kids did the state team for a while and a bunch left, which probably opened up spots for other kids whom were ultimately called up.

Its not a satisfying experience, or much of a learning experience, IMO. The antithesis of the 'creators game', IMO.

The best experience I have seen with club is when you can get your kid on the radar of other clubs where when they have a need they call you and say 'hey, want to come do a tournament in DE this weekend'? I have talked with some dads whose kids are on that circuit and are apparently having a lot of fun with it.

My kid did Brady's Bunch a couple times and that was a lot of fun. Another good time was the All American Games at UMass. Kind of expensive, but you got a lot of lacrosse in.

Now I better understand your views on club lax. That has to be brutal for your son. I know you were one of the only players to score but you didnt make the team? Almost impossible for young kid to understand that

 

[TexanMark]

How many of these kids are "re-classing?" Talk about another suburban plague...

It has been huge in Texas for years. Kids usually get redshirted in middle school. Other parents just delay entry into school as a kindergartener.

 

[PhatOrange]

I could talk for days on this subject both for it and against it. I live it. I love it and I hate it.

 

[TexanMark]

BL: if their grades start to suffer or the kid isn't enjoying it...get off the hamster wheel. It isn't about the parents' ego.

 

[PhatOrange]

I typed like 10 paragraphs and then I deleted it because I don't know what lurkers are out there. I will say one thing about cost from the club perspective (and make no mistake there are a lot of just sheer money grabs going on).....but facilities charge a lot and officials charge a lot. To register for a tournament it costs 2K per team. XYZ Club team has 5 teams (grades 7-11). That's 10K x4 weekends. You're talking 40K in summer registration fees for that club team.

The real money is in hosting events. So if any of you guys wants to go in on a collective we should secure 20 acres of land, build the facilities and then host tournaments year around. We'd make millions. Take that to the bank. Primetime is making several hundred thousand dollars (before expenses) in one weekend, just hosting the Lake George event.

The recent weekend event in Stuart, FL was charging $650 per player. Apex in the fall in Maryland was $650 a player but at least they threw in a shiny new XRS helmet and had PLL players as coaches.

 

[Bayside44]

I typed like 10 paragraphs and then I deleted it because I don't know what lurkers are out there. I will say one thing about cost from the club perspective (and make no mistake there are a lot of just sheer money grabs going on)...but facilities charge a lot and officials charge a lot. To register for a tournament it costs 2K per team. XYZ Club team has 5 teams (grades 7-11). That's 10K x4 weekends. You're talking 40K in registration fees for that club team.

The real money is in hosting events. So if any of you guys wants to go in on a collective we should secure 20 acres of land, build the facilities and then host tournaments year around. We'd make millions. Take that to the bank. Primetime is making several hundred thousand dollars (before expenses) in one weekend just hosting the Lake George event.

I get it, things cost what they cost.

My son's little club was practically run out of the back of a car. It got bought out by one of the mega-clubs. The coaching for the most part is good, and field time, inside and out, etc, cost. The travel for us for weekend tournaments is sane and the hotel options for me is fine.

And to an extent to the point Scooch made these things are what you make of them. For us it's the chance to practice, learn and play and get in shape so my kid can play hs. For some others it's different, in either direction.

I just cannot for the life of me get the dramatics of some parents over a made up game to win the Beach Bash Classic of whatever made up thing this is and all the club shopping for a kid who is just a kid with a stick.

 

[PhatOrange]

I get it, things cost what they cost.

My son's little club was practically run out of the back of a car. It got bought out by one of the mega-clubs. The coaching for the most part is good, and field time, inside and out, etc, cost. The travel for us for weekend tournaments is sane and the hotel options for me is fine.

And to an extent to the point Scooch made these things are what you make of them. For us it's the chance to practice, learn and play and get in shape so my kid can play hs. For some others it's different, in either direction.

I just cannot for the life of me get the dramatics of some parents over a made up game to win the Beach Bash Classic of whatever made up thing this is and all the club shopping for a kid who is just a kid with a stick.

I can relate to every word you say here.

My biggest regrets are chewing up our summers. So we take advantage where we can, make them staycations and oh by the way, play a few lax games. We try to not have lacrosse be the focal point. Kids get burnt out, they don't want to be dragged around and yelled at, they want to be kids and have fun summers. I'm sure the parents I describe below couldn't relate to this.

Watched some Long Island parents get tossed (the officials refused to continue the game with these parents on the sideline) from a championship game over some Beach Bash Classic, so fkn stupid I just can't. We laughed and laughed. Idiots.

 

[Bayside44]

I can relate to every word you say here.

My biggest regrets are chewing up our summers. So we take advantage where we can, make them staycations and oh by the way, play a few lax games. We try to not have lacrosse be the focal point. Kids get burnt out, they don't want to be dragged around and yelled at, they want to be kids and have fun summers. I'm sure the parents I describe below couldn't relate to this.

Watched some Long Island parents get tossed (the officials refused to continue the game with these parents on the sideline) from a championship game over some Beach Bash Classic, so fkn stupid I just can't. We laughed and laughed. Idiots.

Yeah - my kid is off to HS next year, he'll basically just do what his coach wants, and that likely will be his own thing as far as tournaments outside the official team. Which means we ditch club and can enjoy the summer from July on.

 

[swish7]

Phat,
I think the unicorns are coaches like you whom are part of well coached local clubs, have a vested interest in the related high schools, and also seem to have access to regional clubs as well.

I tell parents if you find that, hold onto it and prioritize it over whatever fancy club you stumble on.

 

[swish7]

Now I better understand your views on club lax. That has to be brutal for your son. I know you were one of the only players to score but you didnt make the team? Almost impossible for young kid to understand that

It is definitely hard, and also hard to hold your tongue (when talking to him) as a parent.

That said, most of the kids on the team had a little more pop, a little more twitch, a little more strength. Don't get me wrong, they are talented. Just hard to reflect and think, OK, they held this tryout with 60-70 kids, and oh wow, they already had their team in mind, and maybe only picked up an LSM or a FOGO, and it didn't even matter that my kid scored b/c they already had 9 middies and 6 attackmen from last year.

 

[Roger N]

Bingo...my boys played HS sports (XC, basketball and tennis) for fun. They realized by 10th grade that they weren't getting scholarships for sports. Dad gave them a dose of reality. They quit basketball at the JV level. XC and Tennis had a much lower level of dedication and much less travel so they stayed through 12th grade.

They turned out okay...fortunately their Mom passed on her smart genes.

The real beauty of having a good lax program is what Mike Messere did at West Genny. He matched players up with the right school for them. The college coach walks the kid's application to the Admissions Office. Same for the Financial Aid Office. That is the key. I remember one year in the early 2000's, it was reported that Mike had 42 of his boys playing college lacrosse. That is probably every kid that had graduated. It's not how many All Americans he had, it was how many got an education.

 

[PhatOrange]

Phat,
I think the unicorns are coaches like you whom are part of well coached local clubs, have a vested interest in the related high schools, and also seem to have access to regional clubs as well.

I tell parents if you find that, hold onto it and prioritize it over whatever fancy club you stumble on.

Thanks brother! I wouldn't do it, have it, coach it any other way. I agree 1000% if you find good coaches who have the best interests of the kids at heart hold onto it. I don't care how 'low end' that team is, the kid will be better off for it.

By the way, your free agent thing, if you guys are up north this summer and he wants to hop in a tourney give me a heads up. 2025?

 

[Scooch]

I just cannot for the life of me get the dramatics of some parents over a made up game to win the Beach Bash Classic of whatever made up thing this is and all the club shopping for a kid who is just a kid with a stick.

My son is a sophomore goalie, and everything he does re: lax is entirely of his own doing. My only role is to (a) say no to things that don't make sense, and (b) pay.

He went to a prospect day at Bryant last month, which was a cool experience because an assistant there had asked him to attend after seeing him at an event this past fall. My wife and I went to a mall during most of it, but we watched the scrimmages at the end. There were sooooo many parents freaking out because their kids are juniors and this was "their last chance" to get seen for college. We were both stunned. None of these kids are going to high-level D1 schools, or getting a full ride, so who the hell cares? Some of these people are insane, and I suspect they care way more about it than their kids.

The real beauty of having a good lax program is what Mike Messere did at West Genny. He matched players up with the right school for them. The college coach walks the kid's application to the Admissions Office. Same for the Financial Aid Office. That is the key. I remember one year in the early 2000's, it was reported that Mike had 42 of his boys playing college lacrosse. That is probably every kid that had graduated. It's not how many All Americans he had, it was how many got an education.

100%. My son's current HS coach told me that his #1 goal is to help his players use lacrosse to get the best possible education they can. He said he often steers his kids to a D3 school over a lower-level D1 because the value of their degree (and network) is so much higher.

 

[swish7]

Thanks brother! I wouldn't do it, have it, coach it any other way. I agree 1000% if you find good coaches who have the best interests of the kids at heart hold onto it. I don't care how 'low end' that team is, the kid will be better off for it.

By the way, your free agent thing, if you guys are up north this summer and he wants to hop in a tourney give me a heads up. 2025?

Absolutely!!! 2025, would play whatever position. Thinking of coming up mid July, but might be willing to come up for free agent opps!

 

[swish7]

My son is a sophomore goalie, and everything he does re: lax is entirely of his own doing. My only role is to (a) say no to things that don't make sense, and (b) pay.

He went to a prospect day at Bryant last month, which was a cool experience because an assistant there had asked him to attend after seeing him at an event this past fall. My wife and I went to a mall during most of it, but we watched the scrimmages at the end. There were sooooo many parents freaking out because their kids are juniors and this was "their last chance" to get seen for college. We were both stunned. None of these kids are going to high-level D1 schools, or getting a full ride, so who the hell cares? Some of these people are insane, and I suspect they care way more about it than their kids.



100%. My son's current HS coach told me that his #1 goal is to help his players use lacrosse to get the best possible education they can. He said he often steers his kids to a D3 school over a lower-level D1 because the value of their degree (and network) is so much higher.

I hear Byant is a good one to go to, camp wise, because the coaching is incredible.

Congrats on having a goalie son. I coach the goalies on my kids varsity team. Its about the only type of positional coaching I am great at!

 

[BomberOrange]

Don't get me wrong as there is plenty wrong with it too. Good coaching, Daddy Ball, Reclassing, Money Grabs but if you find a good club with a good coach that goes to the right tournaments it can be great experience while also managing expectations (haha)

Yeah the key is going to the right tournaments. My kid's club did a great job of that last summer after getting our heads kicked in during fall tournaments.

 

[TexanMark]

Thanks brother! I wouldn't do it, have it, coach it any other way. I agree 1000% if you find good coaches who have the best interests of the kids at heart hold onto it. I don't care how 'low end' that team is, the kid will be better off for it.

By the way, your free agent thing, if you guys are up north this summer and he wants to hop in a tourney give me a heads up. 2025?

Phat if you come to Sackets Harbor to play...shoot me a PM

Love to meet you and say hello. My camp is closeby.

 

[Scooch]

I hear Byant is a good one to go to, camp wise, because the coaching is incredible.

Congrats on having a goalie son. I coach the goalies on my kids varsity team. Its about the only type of positional coaching I am great at!

My son had a great experience, according to him, so it seemed worthwhile. And it's less than 2 hours from my house, so it was a day trip.

Lacrosse goalies are nuts, which suits my son's personality well! I never played the sport, so the extent of my involvement is to be supportive. Makes it all a lot easier.

 

[PhatOrange]

100%. My son's current HS coach told me that his #1 goal is to help his players use lacrosse to get the best possible education they can. He said he often steers his kids to a D3 school over a lower-level D1 because the value of their degree (and network) is so much higher.

He is spot on and to piggyback a little on this. I say go where you're going to play. You're there to get a degree, so you might as well play and not sit. Does it make sense to go to a school with 60 kids and 5 or 6 goalies? I encourage kids to look around, look at low level D2 and mid range/low D3 schools for the reasons he states plus the playing time. (the high end D3 schools are notorious for having bloated rosters.) St John Fisher has a billion kids. Sage has 30.

You take a D3 school, whatever floats your boat, if they want you to play for them, they will get you through admissions and they will get you every penny in financial aid that is possible and if you have good grades 85+, 90+ they will throw all the available academic money at you they can. I think they make it up sometimes. It ends up being a lot of money. And the bonus is, if you can play, you're going to play and probably play as a freshman. A lower end school who has a good player interested will jump through hoops.

D2 schools get like 10.2 scholarship or whatever. I think kids average about 3K a year in athletic scholarship money. There are a lot of D2 schools down south if someone wants it and these schools will throw thousands at you in financial aid and merit based academic aid as well (same as the D3 schools). So it adds up with the extra 3 in athletic money. Plus have a better chance at PT.

Look at D2 schools (or D3) in the south who field football teams. They have money. Is Limestone or Lenoir Rhyne realistic? probably not, but schools like Tusculum are and Flagler is a startup. There are several dozen D2 schools like this, maybe more. Who cares how bad they are, you're there to get a degree. And if you're good, shoot you might start all four years and be All Conference. Same holds true for the low D3 and the bonus is maybe turn a program around. They love northern lacrosse players.

From a recruiting standpoint, if you're not playing for the elite clubs, the 'normal' player who wants to get recruited, it becomes a grassroots effort. You need to make film and email all the coaches at the schools you're interested in (get their emails off their website. Address the Head coach and CC the assistants.) Fill out their recruiting questionnaire and then follow that up with the email. Introduce yourself, where you're from, tell the coaches why you're interested in 'Nazareth', what you want to study (don't tell them a degree they don't have, even if the kid doesn't know what he wants just pick one from their list or programs), tell them your grades, your position, maybe some stats, attach your film and tell them where they can watch you play. If you know XYZ coach will be at the Orange Crush showcase you need to email them and tell them you'll be at the event. Tell them you'll be at their prospect day. Send them your summer event schedule and when you know the game times and field #s follow up with that information as well. You have to really sell yourself. D1, D2, D3 level (which by the way is loaded with great lacrosse players.) Most people don't know how to make this effort but it's what you have to do to make it happen.

For the NY'rs out there schools like Western Connecticut State (WestConn) and Castleton College in Vermont charge state tuition for NY residents. Castleton might be regional NY residents but still. Who knew? I only found out when their coaches were hitting me up about players. Do your research.