James Harden

[orangehomer]

Somehow trading Shump for Faried is a start. Frontline of Melo/Bargs/Chandler with Artest/Faried/KMart is pretty freakin good. 2 guard spot is ok but they need to address pg. Even then, you're right it's probably not enough because we have a max contract being tied up by some dude who plays like he has a bunch of elves stacked on top of each other underneath a basketball uniform trying to trick us into thinking they're a human athlete.

I don't know, I'm not an nba guy but I don't see how giving up shumpert for a tweener makes the knicks better. seems like faried would just clog things up and get in melo's way even worse than the other stiffs. smith is not a starting 2, which is a problem, and they don't have a starting 1, which is a huge problem. I don't see how another forward changes anything

 

[longislandcuse]

Melo on FT disparity between him and Harden. "For me, you've got to see blood to call a foul".

Felton also chimed in and was cut off by a PR rep.

 

[longislandcuse]

I don't know, I'm not an nba guy but I don't see how giving up shumpert for a tweener makes the knicks better. seems like faried would just clog things up and get in melo's way even worse than the other stiffs. smith is not a starting 2, which is a problem, and they don't have a starting 1, which is a huge problem. I don't see how another forward changes anything

I think Hardaway JR could actually be the starting 2 so JR can go back to sixth man but no way that happens. I agree, I'd love for then to turn Shump into a point guard by way of trade or ...making him the point guard.

 

[Knicks411]

The Harden gifs are incredible, a great offensive player and a TERRIBLE defensive player. Little effort would be nice. There has definitely been more focus on that since he has taken on a larger role.

Somehow trading Shump for Faried is a start. Frontline of Melo/Bargs/Chandler with Artest/Faried/KMart is pretty freakin good.

I know we discussed this before but I don't like this at all. Bargs has played better lately, but I still don't think he is any good. (I will give him props though, Dwight didn't kill him last night at all) Playing Faried at the 4 means Melo doesn't get space on the court, and the Knicks played great last year when they spaced the floor with shooters to give Melo room to operate. I think Faried is a solid player too, nothing against the guy, but I don't think he fits the team. I do t hink Shump gets moved though.

Edit: and on the potential 4 point play, I think it was the right call. There was initial contact before the shooting motion started, and it seems like when the refs expect a foul they will call it right away, and on the floor. I can't believe Melo didn't know the rule and fouled Dwight under 2 minutes.

 

[longislandcuse]

The Harden gifs are incredible, a great offensive player and a TERRIBLE defensive player. Little effort would be nice. There has definitely been more focus on that since he has taken on a larger role.



I know we discussed this before but I don't like this at all. Bargs has played better lately, but I still don't think he is any good. (I will give him props though, Dwight didn't kill him last night at all) Playing Faried at the 4 means Melo doesn't get space on the court, and the Knicks played great last year when they spaced the floor with shooters to give Melo room to operate. I think Faried is a solid player too, nothing against the guy, but I don't think he fits the team. I do t hink Shump gets moved though.

Edit: and on the potential 4 point play, I think it was the right call. There was initial contact before the shooting motion started, and it seems like when the refs expect a foul they will call it right away, and on the floor. I can't believe Melo didn't know the rule and fouled Dwight under 2 minutes.

It was just tought to watch when he made it, given the officiating between him and Harden all night.

I'm not sure what to do with our frontcourt. Its clear Bargs can dominate at the 5. He didnt just hold his own against Howard, he owned Howard last night. When Tyson comes back Bargs will be at the 4 because I highly doubt he'll come off the bench. Will he be as effective at the 4?

Our clear weak link is point guard which is why noone really understands the Shump/Faried move. Can Shump play point? Can we trade Shump, who seems to be our only moveable asset besides Chandler for a point guard?

I honestly wouldnt mind starting Hardaway jr at the 2 to push JR Smith back to 6th man. As long as Melo/Bargs are in the line up together we have plenty of firepower.

 

[scottynguyen]

Melo doesn't really flop at all, instead of accentuating contact he just absorbs it a lot of the time. He's such a physically imposing guy, I have no doubt that plays a role in referees perception of what constitutes a foul with him.

Also when Melo operates in the post, he definitely seeks out contact, so when a post defender reciprocates with a shove or an elbow in the back it goes uncalled As a Magic fan, I watched this happen to Dwight for years. Being big and strong (and not a flopper) can be a disadvantage when you're looking for a call.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm not sure what to do with our frontcourt. Its clear Bargs can dominate at the 5. He didnt just hold his own against Howard, he owned Howard last night.

Haha I'm not quite ready to go that far yet. He was very good last night, for sure. But he has a track record that says he will not dominate the 5. And he played 33 minutes and grabbed 4 (4!) rebounds. So he shot the ball great and played great individual defense on Dwight, but that's about all I'm, willing to say.

When Tyson comes back Bargs will be at the 4 because I highly doubt he'll come off the bench. Will he be as effective at the 4?

Offensively, I think it would be ok. He's a 7 footer, but he provides the spacing Melo needs. Defensively? That remains to be seen.

 

[longislandcuse]

Haha I'm not quite ready to go that far yet. He was very good last night, for sure. But he has a track record that says he will not dominate the 5. And he played 33 minutes and grabbed 4 (4!) rebounds. So he shot the ball great and played great individual defense on Dwight, but that's about all I'm, willing to say.



Offensively, I think it would be ok. He's a 7 footer, but he provides the spacing Melo needs. Defensively? That remains to be seen.

I think Melo pick and roll with Bargs can be devestating, actually anyone pick and roll with Bargs is going to be a nightmare to defend. I think we have a ton of potential when Tyson comes back but Felton is still the anchor that holds down a formidable starting lineup with Smith/Melo/Bargs/Chandler. I have to assume the front office sees what every fan sees, Felton cannot be a starting point guard for a contending team and we all see what happens (Portland) when he doesnt start. We need to address the pg situation or this teams ceiling is probably a 2nd round exit again.

 

[Knicks411]

I still think Bargs isn't any good. I feel like Melo doesn't work a lot of pick and rolls as the ball handler, am I wrong about that?

 

[longislandcuse]

I still think Bargs isn't any good. I feel like Melo doesn't work a lot of pick and rolls as the ball handler, am I wrong about that?

Consistency is the key with him but the talent is there. If no trades are made, I would love to see a starting unit of Shump/Smith/Melo/Bargs/Chandler. Its not like Felton is giving us anything in the pg spot anyway plus I think he'd be solid if he buys into being the man on the second unit. Second unit can go small with Felton/Prigs/Hardaway/MWP/KMart. This is the only scenario given our current team that I see us being able to remotely contend with Miami or Indiana.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think Shump can run the point, we tried that 2 years ago, epic fail. I'd like to see Beno Udrih get some more time.

This is the only scenario given our current team that I see us being able to remotely contend with Miami or Indiana.

Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening.

 

[longislandcuse]

Anthony acknowledged frustration with the officiating Thursday night after Harden attempted 18 free throws in the Houston Rockets' 109-106 victory over the New York Knicks.Asked if it was tough that the Knicks sent Harden to the line often when they got close, Anthony replied, "We didn't put him on the line, they put him on the line."Harden led the NBA in free-throw attempts last season and is third this season. He was 16-for-18 Thursday, while Anthony, his teammate on the 2012 U.S. Olympic team, was 9-for-11."You look at that, you see the way that some guys get their calls," Anthony said, "and for me, I've got to get cut, you've got to see blood for me to get a call down there. So that's where the frustration comes from."

 

[orangefan13]

Anthony acknowledged frustration with the officiating Thursday night after Harden attempted 18 free throws in the Houston Rockets' 109-106 victory over the New York Knicks.Asked if it was tough that the Knicks sent Harden to the line often when they got close, Anthony replied, "We didn't put him on the line, they put him on the line."Harden led the NBA in free-throw attempts last season and is third this season. He was 16-for-18 Thursday, while Anthony, his teammate on the 2012 U.S. Olympic team, was 9-for-11."You look at that, you see the way that some guys get their calls," Anthony said, "and for me, I've got to get cut, you've got to see blood for me to get a call down there. So that's where the frustration comes from."

But Anthony is stronger then Harden he should have to get punched to be fouled.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Harden bad defense ain't got nothin' on Bargnani bad defense.

 

[doc05]

I don't think Shump can run the point, we tried that 2 years ago, epic fail. I'd like to see Beno Udrih get some more time.



Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening.

Well - you got Udrih tonight, and it wasn't good.

As far as this thread - I was at the SU- AZS game in 09. If I remember correctly Harden was sick in that game(could be wrong). He is flawed, but still a tremendous offensive player.

 

[richard levy]

So glad we punked his flopping a$$ in the NCAA Tournament. His game is unwatchable. All he does is shoot 3's or run into people, flop and hope for a call (which the refs always give him). I have zero respect for his game.

Olympic team, right?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Well - you got Udrih tonight, and it wasn't good.

As far as this thread - I was at the SU- AZS game in 09. If I remember correctly Harden was sick in that game(could be wrong). He is flawed, but still a tremendous offensive player.

You are correct.

 

[Rocco]

So glad we punked his flopping a$$ in the NCAA Tournament. His game is unwatchable. All he does is shoot 3's or run into people, flop and hope for a call (which the refs always give him). I have zero respect for his game.

You just described most NBA players.

The jumpshot flop foul is the worst thing that ever happened to basketball. The "Kobe" rule.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Waiters makes harden look like Gary Paytom

 

[44cuse]

Jonny Flynn is better than him

One of my favorite board moments of all time.

I believe there was a "his game doesn't translate to the NBA" in there as well somewhere.

Awesome.

44cuse


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[OrangeDW]

One of my favorite board moments of all time.

I believe there was a "his game doesn't translate to the NBA" in there as well somewhere.

Awesome.

44cuse

It wasn't ridiculous at the time. Harden went 3rd and Flynn went 6th, and Flynn arguably had the more productive rookie year. Flynn had potential to be a very good NBA player, but that went out the window when he lost his incredible quickness and explosiveness.

He had a ton of work to do too, though.

 

[44cuse]

It wasn't ridiculous at the time. Harden went 3rd and Flynn went 6th, and Flynn arguably had the more productive rookie year. Flynn had potential to be a very good NBA player, but that went out the window when he lost his incredible quickness and explosiveness.

He had a ton of work to do too, though.

That comment was exactly the point of my post and the one I responded to. Let me caveat this by saying that very few people here paid more attention to JF in the pros than I did. He was a fave player of mine and I'm a big NBA fan.

1. Ball dominating PG
2. Mediocre jumper
3. Six feet tall (on a good day)

My belief was that he was actually a really smart player who would be coached up to not dominate the ball (which SU needed him to do) and become more of a distributor. Neither of things were showing ANY signs of that happening including pre-injury. I still, to this day, blame that squarely on Kurt Rambus who I think is a bad coach.

Harden was a scorer and a distributor in college. NBA ready at 19 and a pretty efficient scorer (which has translated to the NBA as I think he was in the top 15 or so last season). I know his TS% was close to .600 last season.

IMO, JF was drafted high above his real value. Just dont see how anyone can say JF was a more NBA ready player than Harden was at the time. He was the best 2/wing in the draft and JF wasn't even the best PG.

In terms of the rookie year comparison:

WP48
Flynn: .002
Harden: .124

TS%
Flynn: .511
Harden: .551

DWS
Flynn: 0.7
Harden: 2.5

DRTG:
Flynn: 111
Harden: 104

So by those #'s Harden was a better defender, shooter (shot 2% pts higher from three as well), and overall WP contributor.

All of that said, I still think JF got a bad draw being drafted by the Wolves. Kahn is a train wreck and having Rubio drafted alongside JF was a no-brainer for the Wolves fans to turn on JF early and they did. Rambus having him run the triangle, knowing Rubio was in the wings, was never a good setup for JF.

EDIT: btw, I should also say I appreciate the fact that you seem to like and know about the NBA. We could use a bit more of that around here as from time to time there are NBA discussions here.

44cuse


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