It feels like so long ago but imagine if they brought in a pg with Girard instead of sticking with Carey

[Millhouse]

I do not understand boeheim's and staff's point guard recruiting.

It took approximately five seconds to see that Jalen Carey couldn't play the position, wasn't a quarterback and couldn't shoot. I never liked what I saw from mintz either

We were so constrained by requiring a 6'3" sprinter that we just pray that they'll learn to make shots and learn how to play a team game

It worked out with gbinije and John Gillon failed in the zone despite being an outstanding PG, so that big fast combo guard became the recipe

Girard's limitations not being a 6'3 track star probably led to him developing an all around game despite having to score so much in high school. You can see it last night where he passes the ball right where shooters want to catch it.

He is tough to like but I'm glad he's in the right place, he's too good at his real role to not finish having some fun

If he were here, I would be thinking, oh ffs we should put him back at PG where he really doesn't belong because he's still better than the combo guard bs we keep trying

I hope that not playing zone opens us up to finding more guys who can play the position and not be looking for unicorns who can do it all at 6'3"

If we can't get a PG , run more motion, go somewhat positionless, get the ball out of his hands, and make the decision making easier on everyone

 

[OptimusOtto]

We did. His name was Kadary Richmond and it’s crazy that we didn’t put Joe and Buddy off ball and give him the keys.

 

[Millhouse]

We did. His name was Kadary Richmond and it’s crazy that we didn’t put Joe and Buddy off ball and give him the keys.

You're right. But that was two years after Carey. If not for Carey, Girard wouldn't have gotten a taste of PG as a freshman

I thought Torrence should've played more too

Joe and Buddy both needed to play at Syracuse but they really couldn't do it at the same time

Now we have starling and mintz who are also not complementary at all

 

[Jake]

Joe is/was a great piece to a puzzle. Clemson uses him perfectly. He wasnt a point or a 4 year starter.

 

[Newhouser]

Joe is m/was a great piece to a puzzle. Clemson uses him perfectly. He wasnt a point or a 4 year starter.

I wonder if Joe sits at his beachside apartment and says "what the F was JB thinking playing me in that role?"

Kid has/had to know that he was getting too many minutes and wasn't a good fit for what we were asking of him.

 

[PhatOrange]

Joes also lost so much weight he almost doesnt look like the same kid. I’m sure it’s helped him.

 

[bnoro]

I wonder if Joe sits at his beachside apartment and says "what the F was JB thinking playing me in that role?"

Kid has/had to know that he was getting too many minutes and wasn't a good fit for what we were asking of him.

Beachside apartment? Do you know where Clemson is located?

 

[Cheriehoop]

We did. His name was Kadary Richmond and it’s crazy that we didn’t put Joe and Buddy off ball and give him the keys.

Richmond isn’t an on ball point guard. He initiates offense from the forward/shooting guard spot. He only occasionally runs the offense and when he does he passes it off and then moves to the forward spot. He’s a combo guard/forward with lots of talent but also has no outside shot. He played forward all through high school.

 

[LoveShack]

Richmond isn’t an on ball point guard. He initiates offense from the forward/shooting guard spot. He only occasionally runs the offense and when he does he passes it off and then moves to the forward spot. He’s a combo guard/forward with lots of talent but also has no outside shot. He played forward all through high school.

Sounds an awful lot like Copeland

 

[kingtidge]

Richmond isn’t an on ball point guard. He initiates offense from the forward/shooting guard spot. He only occasionally runs the offense and when he does he passes it off and then moves to the forward spot. He’s a combo guard/forward with lots of talent but also has no outside shot. He played forward all through high school.

I dunno... what could have been.

Just seems like we've shoehorned combo-guards into playing point way too often. It's been a recruiting problem for a while... Christ, the Frank Howard years were not that long ago either.

 

[Scooch]

Girard didn't deserve most of the grief he got here, because he was used improperly for 4 years. The problem was always JB's horrendous roster management.

There have been a hundred mid-major PGs who would have been an improvement over what we've trotted out at that position for nearly 10 years.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Sounds an awful lot like Copeland

Actually they are very different. Copeland has an Uber motor, goes for flash but Richmond doesn’t have the motor that Q does, he’s a player who has great spurts with many lulls. He’s a player who defers a lot from being in the action. I know that JB and Holloway thought it was because of conditioning. He just couldn't play effectively much more than 20 minutes in games for us nor Seton Hall. This year as a senior, is his first year playing more than 27 minutes/game. Very talented and injury prone but laid back player who competes in spurts and can be very dynamic when he is engaged.

 

[sufan59]

Richmond isn’t an on ball point guard. He initiates offense from the forward/shooting guard spot. He only occasionally runs the offense and when he does he passes it off and then moves to the forward spot. He’s a combo guard/forward with lots of talent but also has no outside shot. He played forward all through high school.

Richmond was a HUGE loss for the 2021-2022 squad. That year goes significantly different if we retained him. I think he would’ve only added another dimension to an already elite offense that team had. Most importantly, his defensive presence alone would’ve been a game changer for this team in several games that year.

 

[Millhouse]

Girard didn't deserve most of the grief he got here, because he was used improperly for 4 years. The problem was always JB's horrendous roster management.

There have been a hundred mid-major PGs who would have been an improvement over what we've trotted out at that position for nearly 10 years.

People hated the zone because they think it's not manly or whatever but I hated it because of how much the required attributes for a good zone constrained our offense

 

[hoopsupstate]

Sounds an awful lot like Copeland

Copeland’s motor would leave Richmond in the dust. He still coasts during games.

 

[Newhouser]

Beachside apartment? Do you know where Clemson is located?

Ha right my bad - Lakeside.

 

[Sherman20]

I wonder if Joe sits at his beachside apartment and says "what the F was JB thinking playing me in that role?"

Kid has/had to know that he was getting too many minutes and wasn't a good fit for what we were asking of him.

Beachside apartment? Lol. Clemson is hours from the ocean.

 

[djcon57]

Richmond isn’t an on ball point guard. He initiates offense from the forward/shooting guard spot. He only occasionally runs the offense and when he does he passes it off and then moves to the forward spot. He’s a combo guard/forward with lots of talent but also has no outside shot. He played forward all through high school.

His AST% is 32.1.
Call it whatever position you want.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Pride is a hell of a thing especially with someone older and having one gig his entire adult life.

 

[DoctorBombay]

People hated the zone because they think it's not manly or whatever but I hated it because of how much the required attributes for a good zone constrained our offense

Never "hated" the zone, and when done correctly w/ the right pieces, it was damn near impenetrable.
The real issue was always the "zone or nothing" philosophy by JB, who refused to switch up when the damn thing wasn't working- which happened a lot over his last 7-10 seasons. And in the Steph Curry era where everyone grows up shooting 3's, the system become antiquated and obsolete.
It was ridiculous how many teams attacked that defense and we reacted, instead of the other way around. We pressed only when far behind- sometimes it worked, most times it didn't. I get PTSD just thinking about it. (shudder)

 

[sufan59]

I wonder if Joe sits at his beachside apartment and says "what the F was JB thinking playing me in that role?"

Kid has/had to know that he was getting too many minutes and wasn't a good fit for what we were asking of him.

That is where the resentment really is, it’s not Joe, it’s how we used Joe. Of course as a player you’re not going to complain to your coach when he has basically given you the greenest of lights and unlimited playing time. But it wasn’t the best for both parties the way we used him. Add the Boeheim brothers and Cole Swider into the mix, we truly had the shooters on the court that could’ve been the makings of an elite team in 2021-2022. The problem is we did not have any player leftover or recruited to that roster that could’ve provided balance to that team and made it a contender. The players have been there these last several years, the timing of when they’re here has been off, way off. You need players to work on mastering several different roles on the team in order to be successful. You do need one or two guys that can do it all, but you need the rest to buy into roles to compensate for your one or two guys that can do it all. You need your do it all guys to embrace their role players that mastered a certain aspect of the game.

 

[MikeSU02]

Richmond isn’t an on ball point guard. He initiates offense from the forward/shooting guard spot. He only occasionally runs the offense and when he does he passes it off and then moves to the forward spot. He’s a combo guard/forward with lots of talent but also has no outside shot. He played forward all through high school.

LeBron James isn't an on ball point guard if we're going to use this definition, but I think we'd take him.

Kadary's assist % is 32.1% (h/t to djcon57 noting this above) which is above Judah's 25.3%, basically on the same usage.

Kadary is also one of 40 players on the Oscar Robertson Award/AA watch list.

We'd be lucky to still have Kadary. He's also playing a 32.4 MPG, with a very high PER and a Box +/- that would be the highest on our team.

 

[cali315phan]

I wonder if Joe sits at his beachside apartment and says "what the F was JB thinking playing me in that role?"

Kid has/had to know that he was getting too many minutes and wasn't a good fit for what we were asking of him.

Lake Shartwell is definitely not beach side hahaha

 

[DoctorBombay]

LeBron James isn't an on ball point guard if we're going to use this definition, but I think we'd take him.

Kadary's assist % is 32.1% (h/t to djcon57 noting this above) which is above Judah's 25.3%, basically on the same usage.

Kadary is also one of 40 players on the Oscar Robertson Award/AA watch list.

We'd be lucky to still have Kadary. He's also playing a 32.4 MPG, with a very high PER and a Box +/- that would be the highest on our team.

Biggest f 'up of the Boeheim era. JMHO

 

[sufan59]

Biggest f 'up of the Boeheim era. JMHO

I want to cry thinking about what could’ve been in 2021-2022 with Richmond and the shooters on that roster.