Jason Collins: first openly gay athlete in US Sports history

[edowd26]

!!!! I just paid my wifes entry fee for a 5k for autism... Im a... Hero?! Can I fly?!

you were a hero prior to that act. And if you paint an orange block s on your chest, climb to the top of the A frame, I'm 46% certain you'll be able to fly if you leap.

 

[timkay99]

You CHOOSE your political ideology.
You are BORN with your sexual orientation.

I simply don't understand how anyone can think being gay is a choice. Who would choose that for themselves? Being a second class citizen seems like a great idea to me (or just being treated like one).

Question for you guys (and maybe it is answered - I am on Page 6 of this thread):

Do you think you can develop your sexual orientation? For an example, do you believe there are truly bi-sexual people out there?

I personally don't believe you are born with a sexual orientation. It is like everything else you are as a person, it is built based off your experiences in the formative ages. So, if someone is a true "bi", then they could "choose" whether to marry a man or a woman.

I just hate dealing with absolutes in things like this.

For the record (just in case people think I may be setting for a troll or something), I have zero issue with gay marriage and think they should have the same right to be as miserable as heterosexual married couples. And they definitely should receive the same government benefits.

 

[CuseTroop]

you were a hero prior to that act. And if you paint an orange block s on your chest, climb to the top of the A frame, I'm 46% certain you'll be able to fly if you leap.

Bro, if it keeps snowing, I might just try that!

 

[edowd26]

Question for you guys (and maybe it is answered - I am on Page 6 of this thread):

Do you think you can develop your sexual orientation? For an example, do you believe there are truly bi-sexual people out there?

I personally don't believe you are born with a sexual orientation. It is like everything else you are as a person, it is built based off your experiences in the formative ages. So, if someone is a true "bi", then they could "choose" whether to marry a man or a woman.

I just hate dealing with absolutes in things like this.

For the record (just in case people think I may be setting for a troll or something), I have zero issue with gay marriage and think they should have the same right to be as miserable as heterosexual married couples. And they definitely should receive the same government benefits.

I think its inherent.

 

[Todd Gack]

I don't know where you are getting your information but I can say as sure as I am alive that the Biblical Christian position is that all sex outside of marriage (pre and extra) is inheretnly sinful.

Re-read my post -- I said the same thing. But you're also saying that -- per the Bible -- sex between married homosexuals is sinful, no? (Assuming the church would recognize their marriage.) Heterosexuals are not told that sex is inherently sinful.

 

[Todd Gack]

I personally don't believe you are born with a sexual orientation. It is like everything else you are as a person, it is built based off your experiences in the formative ages.

Collins is a twin, right? I'd assume he and his brother had similar experiences growing up. Also, next time you see a pretty girl, ask yourself whether you're unconsciously attracted to her -- or if you had to talk yourself into it.

 

[timkay99]

I think its inherent.

Do you believe bi-sexuals exist?

 

[ImperialOrange]

I used to read itit in high school just for better understanding. I dont claim a denomination but I do have faith

I didn't read it in high school, wasn't raised anywhere near a Church, and feel I have an advantage since no one has ever been able to indoctrinate me (not that I've even been the type to allow that).

Props for actually reading for understanding. I know alot of folks like you and we have some very good convos despite what we may or may not agree upon.

 

[sabach]

Re-read my post -- I said the same thing. But you're also saying that -- per the Bible -- sex between married homosexuals is sinful, no? (Assuming the church would recognize their marriage.) Heterosexuals are not told that sex is inherently sinful.

I guess we are differing on our definition of what is a sin. The Bible teaches that all sex is sin except in the context of marriage. You stated that Christians teach that heterosexual sex outside of marriage is not sin but rather "not ideal". That's not accurate.
In addition, every single heterosexual I know who is unmarried and celibate (as I was) are doing so for the reason that pre-marital sex is sinful. You said otherwise.

 

[Eric15]

Question for you guys (and maybe it is answered - I am on Page 6 of this thread):

Do you think you can develop your sexual orientation? For an example, do you believe there are truly bi-sexual people out there?

I personally don't believe you are born with a sexual orientation. It is like everything else you are as a person, it is built based off your experiences in the formative ages. So, if someone is a true "bi", then they could "choose" whether to marry a man or a woman.

I just hate dealing with absolutes in things like this.

For the record (just in case people think I may be setting for a troll or something), I have zero issue with gay marriage and think they should have the same right to be as miserable as heterosexual married couples. And they definitely should receive the same government benefits.

To be honest, Tim, I don't know. Perhaps gay people are genetically and biologically homosexual from the moment they're born, or maybe some do in fact develop their sexuality during puberty. I'm hoping MCC can swoop in here and provide you with a definitive scientific answer.

 

[NKR1978]

Question for you guys (and maybe it is answered - I am on Page 6 of this thread):

Do you think you can develop your sexual orientation? For an example, do you believe there are truly bi-sexual people out there?

I personally don't believe you are born with a sexual orientation. It is like everything else you are as a person, it is built based off your experiences in the formative ages. So, if someone is a true "bi", then they could "choose" whether to marry a man or a woman.

I just hate dealing with absolutes in things like this.

For the record (just in case people think I may be setting for a troll or something), I have zero issue with gay marriage and think they should have the same right to be as miserable as heterosexual married couples. And they definitely should receive the same government benefits.

Sexuality is probably mostly genetic. There are plenty of examples of brothers or even twins where one is gay and the other straight. If it were environmental then I don't think you would see the variations.

The three long time gay friends I have started off claiming they were bi. It seems like at least for some guys rationalizing their sexuality by trying to convince themselves that they're bi is just a stop on the road to self acceptance.

In my experience, the guys who say they're bisexual really like guys and the girls who say they're bisexual really like guys. But never say never.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[timkay99]

Collins is a twin, right? I'd assume he and his brother had similar experiences growing up. Also, next time you see a pretty girl, ask yourself whether you're unconsciously attracted to her -- or if you had to talk yourself into it.

Do you believe your born with your personality or it develops over time in your formative years?

This pretty girl question, I don't understand. So, would you say I am gay for admiring a guy who is ripped at the gym? And, wouldn't you agree that pretty is in the eyes of the beholder to a certain extent?

I think 3/4 of the population is born with the sexuality. But, I do think there is a 1/4 of the population that becomes defined through formative years, preferring a certain type of intercourse, having friendship feelings develop into love, etc.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Cetaphil is just lotion.

 

[edowd26]

I didn't read it in high school, wasn't raised anywhere near a Church, and feel I have an advantage since no one has ever been able to indoctrinate me (not that I've even been the type to allow that).

Props for actually reading for understanding. I know alot of folks like you and we have some very good convos despite what we may or may not agree upon.

I also grew up without the pressure of indoctrination. I do have an issue with catholicism, but I know many great catholics.

 

[timkay99]

To be honest, Tim, I don't know. Perhaps gay people are genetically and biologically homosexual from the moment they're born, or maybe some do in fact develop their sexuality during puberty. I'm hoping MCC can swoop in here and provide you with a definitive scientific answer.

I wonder if we will need to wait for this to get to the OT board for him to make an appearance! Definitely be interested to see if he has any comments on it.

 

[edowd26]

Do you believe bi-sexuals exist?

I do not. I think thet are fooling themselves.

 

[shandeezy7]

Question for you guys (and maybe it is answered - I am on Page 6 of this thread):

Do you think you can develop your sexual orientation? For an example, do you believe there are truly bi-sexual people out there?

I personally don't believe you are born with a sexual orientation. It is like everything else you are as a person, it is built based off your experiences in the formative ages. So, if someone is a true "bi", then they could "choose" whether to marry a man or a woman.

I just hate dealing with absolutes in things like this.

For the record (just in case people think I may be setting for a troll or something), I have zero issue with gay marriage and think they should have the same right to be as miserable as heterosexual married couples. And they definitely should receive the same government benefits.

In my mind, you are either born gay or straight. For those who are born gay, they might go through their whole life repressing the fact that they are gay and never acting out on it, which I think is a direct result of societal pressures, but they are still "gay." I just don't see how there could be something that happens in your formative years that can "turn" someone gay.

As for people who define themselves as "bisexual," I think they are more likely just hyper-sexual individuals who are attracted to both sexes mainly due to uncontrollable sexual urges.

 

[timkay99]

In my experience, the guys who say they're bisexual really like guys and the girls who say they're bisexual really like guys. But never say never.
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

I would agree for the most part. But, I do think some bi sexuals do make the transition to heterosexual relationships.

I guess the question would be if they make these transitions due to societal reasons, family reasons or if they truly are leaning a way to begin with as a "bi".

 

[ImperialOrange]

Yeah, I find it incredibly sad that these people have been guilted and shamed into living a certain way. To me, it's no different than voting against gay marriage. Actually, it's worse.

Not sure I follow the logic with this. If someone chooses to have sex with someone of the same gender, or opposite gender; how is any different than someone who chooses not to? It's their choice and nothing to feel sorry for one way or they other because they can make their own choices.

 

[timkay99]

I do not. I think thet are fooling themselves.

As for people who define themselves as "bisexual," I think they are more likely just hyper-sexual individuals who are attracted to both sexes mainly due to uncontrollable sexual urges.

I can completely understand both these viewpoints.

I am fascinated by the development of sexuality. What this leads me to, since so many are leaning towards the birth angle, is there a chromosome or two that affect sexuality? Will we learn at some point about the genetic mapping?

And the research has already begun (wish there was something more from more recently):

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20050128/is-there-gay-gene?page=2

 

[Todd Gack]

I guess we are differing on our definition of what is a sin. The Bible teaches that all sex is sin except in the context of marriage. You stated that Christians teach that heterosexual sex outside of marriage is not sin but rather "not ideal". That's not accurate.
In addition, every single heterosexual I know who is unmarried and celibate (as I was) are doing so for the reason that pre-marital sex is sinful. You said otherwise.

I never said that they don't teach that it's sinful -- rather that it's not the same as a homosexual engaging in the act. For them, it can never be not-sinful. Do you disagree with that? And I'm saying the same thing about celibate Christians who are holding out for marriage. (But I'd be interested in what you think I was suggesting their reason was.)

In short, I think the premise that the celibate heterosexual Christian and the celibate homosexual Christian are the same is silly. One is choosing to be celibate for reasons other than the sex act is inherently sinful.

(For the record, I find the whole idea that you can only be "Christian" if you subscribe to archaic biblical strictures silly as well -- but for arguments sake ...)

 

[sabach]

I never said that they don't teach that it's sinful -- rather that it's not the same as a homosexual engaging in the act. For them, it can never be not-sinful. Do you disagree with that? And I'm saying the same thing about celibate Christians who are holding out for marriage. (But I'd be interested in what you think I was suggesting their reason was.)

In short, I think the premise that the celibate heterosexual Christian and the celibate homosexual Christian are the same is silly. One is choosing to be celibate for reasons other than the sex act is inherently sinful.

(For the record, I find the whole idea that you can only be "Christian" if you subscribe to archaic biblical strictures silly as well -- but for arguments sake ...)

You said this "The heterosexual who chooses to abstain for life is doing so for reasons other than whether sex is sinful or not." I do not agree with you.
I have no idea what you are sugessting the reason is why heterosexual Christians who abstain from sex are doing so other than to avoid sin. Maybe it would be easier if you can answer your own statement yourself.
What is the reason why you think that "the heterosexual who chooses to abstain for life" is abstaining if not for the purpose of avoiding sin?

 

[Todd Gack]

Do you believe your born with your personality or it develops over time in your formative years?

This pretty girl question, I don't understand. So, would you say I am gay for admiring a guy who is ripped at the gym? And, wouldn't you agree that pretty is in the eyes of the beholder to a certain extent?

I think 3/4 of the population is born with the sexuality. But, I do think there is a 1/4 of the population that becomes defined through formative years, preferring a certain type of intercourse, having friendship feelings develop into love, etc.

No doubt your personality is informed by your experiences -- but there's probably a genetic element to it as well. I have my mom's personality -- whose experience growing up was different than mine. My siblings -- who had the same experiences as me growing up -- are like my dad. Either way, personality is not sexuality. If I were to undergo a life-changing experience tomorrow, my personality would probably be altered -- my sexuality would not.

You can appreciate a man's handsomeness or physique and not be gay -- if you're sexually attracted to him, you probably are. And, yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder -- my point is that you don't consciously make the decision to perk up when in the presence of an attractive girl. It comes naturally to you.

If a 1/4 of the population had a choice of who they were physically attracted to, I'd submit there'd be a lot more lesbians.

 

[KingOtis]

Not sure I follow the logic with this. If someone chooses to have sex with someone of the same gender, or opposite gender; how is any different than someone who chooses not to? It's their choice and nothing to feel sorry for one way or they other because they can make their own choices.

I don't know if it's really a choice when the other option is spending the afterlife in hell.

 

[sabach]

I don't know if it's really a choice when the other option is spending the afterlife in hell.

Where in this thread has anyone stated that your sexuality (gay or straight) has anything to do with whether you go to Heaven or Hell.