Jason Collins: first openly gay athlete in US Sports history

[Eric15]

Very interesting, but not surprising, about Alaska as well. "Close behind Utah with just over five porn subscribers per thousand is Sarah Palin's Alaska. "

Right CuseTroop?

Damn it, CuseTroop, put down the Cetaphil and answer CuseFaninVT's question.

 

[orangepassion]

From a religious standpoint...

I know the Old Testament forbids homosexuality, but Leviticus also forbids pork, shellfish, shaving, tattoos, and wearing outfits made of two different fabrics. So clearly that isn't relevant.

Not entirely accurate (the shaving and clothing part) and it clearly IS relevant for Orthodox Jews.

 

[NKR1978]

Got it. I do not think that priests who chose to be celibate or non-married heterosexuals who chose to be celibate until marriage or for life if they do not marry are necessarily dealing with demons if they want their acts to be in line with what they believe their faith requires. Why must it be different with gay Christians.

I think it has to do with the process of accepting your sexuality. For a straight person, there is no process. You're just "normal" and there's really nothing to worry about. Of course if you're trying to be as good a Christian as possible you have to abstain from sex, but at least you have that marriage option to have non-sinful sex.

For the gay Christian who chooses to be celibate, there is no option where he or she could enjoy non-sinful sex. That seems to add an entire different element to the psychology of the whole situation.

I could very well be wrong, and actually hope I am, because it seems like it would be really difficult for those guys.

 

[NKR1978]

Very interesting, but not surprising, about Alaska as well. "Close behind Utah with just over five porn subscribers per thousand is Sarah Palin's Alaska. "

Right CuseTroop?

What else is there to do to kill time when it's dark for 23 hours a day?

 

[sabach]

I think it has to do with the process of accepting your sexuality. For a straight person, there is no process. You're just "normal" and there's really nothing to worry about. Of course if you're trying to be as good a Christian as possible you have to abstain from sex, but at least you have that marriage option to have non-sinful sex.

For the gay Christian who chooses to be celibate, there is no option where he or she could enjoy non-sinful sex. That seems to add an entire different element to the psychology of the whole situation.

I could very well be wrong, and actually hope I am, because it seems like it would be really difficult for those guys.

That's exactly right. This was part of the discussion I had with the pastor from L.A. I said exactly what you said - (i.e. if your hetero - one day you could get married, but if you are gay then sex can't be a part of your life, ever, and that has got to be brutal). His response was that while the psychology of it is still there and that is not insignificant, at the end of the day a celibate gay Christian is in practice no different that a celibate heterosexual Christian who never gets married. These are not easy issues we are discussing within the church and the "bumper sticker mentality" of some within and outside of the church does not help at all.

 

[Millhouse]

Hospitals pay better, they're also shift work.

if there were more priests to do the same amount of work, each priest would do less work.

this is just math. i see no reason why priests couldn't take shifts going to hospitals, hearing confessions.

saying that you can't have married priests because priests are too busy is a little circular. priests are too busy because there are so few of them because married people are excluded. and i don't know what this has to do with jason collins but i'm as much at fault.

 

[CuseTroop]

Very interesting, but not surprising, about Alaska as well. "Close behind Utah with just over five porn subscribers per thousand is Sarah Palin's Alaska. "

Right CuseTroop?

Damn it, CuseTroop, put down the Cetaphil and answer CuseFaninVT's question.

What else is there to do to kill time when it's dark for 23 hours a day?

Gotta stay warm somehow folks! The amount of dry cabins our here, alot of guys just have computers and internet, no TVs... This doesnt surprise me at all

I'm refusing to google Cetaphil at work, lol

NKR - well, I just drink alot, but I guess a little porn would help as well

 

[Bayside44]

if there were more priests to do the same amount of work, each priest would do less work.

this is just math. i see no reason why priests couldn't take shifts going to hospitals, hearing confessions.

saying that you can't have married priests because priests are too busy is a little circular. priests are too busy because there are so few of them because married people are excluded. and i don't know what this has to do with jason collins but i'm as much at fault.

They would also cost a lot more, taking a vow of poverty and living the married Catholic life is also bad math.

This has little to nothing to do with Jason Collins.

 

[edowd26]

I used to read itit in high school just for better understanding. I dont claim a denomination but I do have faith

From my experience people just seem far more likely to research and read about things they oppose or are unfamiliar with vs something that they support or claim to support. Once they arrive at the conclussion they support something a fair amount (not all) get complacent/comfortable. Those that oppose something keep looking for more ammo to support why they are against it.

 

[edowd26]

Gotta stay warm somehow folks!

I'm refusing to google Cetaphil at work

NKR - well, I just drink alot, but I guess a little porn would help as well

Cetaphil is just lotion.

 

[CuseTroop]

Cetaphil is just lotion.

ahh lol. I figured it was something simple, but with some of you knuckleheads, you can never be to safe

 

[CuseTroop]

ps- April 30th, and I woke up to a brand new inch of snow.. Still coming down. If I cant have summer, I might as well find some porn

 

[edowd26]

This foforum has a g rating. See you next Tuesday, bud.

ahh lol. I figured it was something simple, but with some of you knuckleheads, you can never be to safe

 

[edowd26]

This foforum has a g rating. See you next Tuesday, bud.

I just internet stuttered.

 

[kuethstheman]

Not much being said about the potential locker room situation. I don't hate anybody but I think I'd be uncomfortable showering alongside someone who might be interested in my private parts (other than my wife).

I guess I'd put up with it if it was for the good of the team or if I liked the guy personally but that's me. I'd bet not everyone would want to experience that.

 

[CuseTroop]

Not much being said about the potential locker room situation. I don't hate anybody but I think I'd be uncomfortable showering alongside someone who might be interested in my private parts (other than my wife).

I guess I'd put up with it if it was for the good of the team or if I liked the guy personally but that's me. I'd bet not everyone would want to experience that.

Honestly, it would only be an issue in the locker room, if the other guys make it an issue... It wasent like the dude became gay the day that he came out. They have been working together this whole time. Had a few gay soldiers in my past units... Never was an issue

 

[djcon57]

Not much being said about the potential locker room situation. I don't hate anybody but I think I'd be uncomfortable showering alongside someone who might be interested in my private parts (other than my wife).

I guess I'd put up with it if it was for the good of the team or if I liked the guy personally but that's me. I'd bet not everyone would want to experience that.

Really? I'd be like...LOOK AT ME!! JEALOUS????

 

[Todd Gack]

His response was that while the psychology of it is still there and that is not insignificant, at the end of the day a celibate gay Christian is in practice no different that a celibate heterosexual Christian who never gets married.

Sure it is. The homosexual is abstaining because he or she has been told that the act is inherently sinful (in or outside of marriage, which the Warren church doesn't sanction). It is a position of shame. The heterosexual who's waiting for marriage is abstaining because they've been told that sex before marriage is not the ideal -- like we tell our children that you shouldn't have cookies before dinner. The heterosexual who chooses to abstain for life is doing so for reasons other than whether sex is sinful or not.

My abstaining from drinking milk is not the same as the person's who's lactose intolerant.

 

[edowd26]

Not much being said about the potential locker room situation. I don't hate anybody but I think I'd be uncomfortable showering alongside someone who might be interested in my private parts (other than my wife).

I guess I'd put up with it if it was for the good of the team or if I liked the guy personally but that's me. I'd bet not everyone would want to experience that.

If a gay guy finds me attractive, im flattered. And if it went 14 years without being found out, I doubt leering was an issue. Its not a strip club.

 

[KingOtis]

Not much being said about the potential locker room situation. I don't hate anybody but I think I'd be uncomfortable showering alongside someone who might be interested in my private parts (other than my wife).

I guess I'd put up with it if it was for the good of the team or if I liked the guy personally but that's me. I'd bet not everyone would want to experience that.

He's been in the NBA for 12 years. At Stanford for four years before that. HS for four years before that. Do the math. Had there been any incidents, we would have already known he was gay.

 

[edowd26]

Not much being said about the potential locker room situation. I don't hate anybody but I think I'd be uncomfortable showering alongside someone who might be interested in my private parts (other than my wife).

I guess I'd put up with it if it was for the good of the team or if I liked the guy personally but that's me. I'd bet not everyone would want to experience that.

Also, the most flamboyantly uncomfortable people in locker rooms are generally heteroswxual.

 

[djcon57]

Eeek. Tim Brando DOUBLES-DOWN on his Hootie = HERO claim.
Also, my guess is Jake is right and he's doing this to get pub for his new radio show on the CBS radio network deal which is struggling bad.
@steakNstiffarms 1h
Now asked @TimBrando five times (the fifth per his request to ask again) why Darius Rucker is a hero, but Jason Collins isn't. No response.
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Tim Brando ‏@TimBrando 41m
@steakNstiffarms he and his band at a very early age gave their entire fee for a Charity Event to a Charity. Never thinking it was special.
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Elika Sadeghi ‏@steakNstiffarms 28m
.@TimBrando So... making a charitable contribution makes one a hero?
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Tim Brando ‏@TimBrando 16m
@steakNstiffarms you got your answer.

 

[KingOtis]

Sure it is. The homosexual is abstaining because he or she has been told that the act is inherently sinful (in or outside of marriage, which the Warren church doesn't sanction). It is a position of shame. The heterosexual who's waiting for marriage is abstaining because they've been told that sex before marriage is not the ideal -- like we tell our children that you shouldn't have cookies before dinner. The heterosexual who chooses to abstain for life is doing so for reasons other than whether sex is sinful or not.

Yeah, I find it incredibly sad that these people have been guilted and shamed into living a certain way. To me, it's no different than voting against gay marriage. Actually, it's worse.

 

[CuseTroop]

Eeek. Tim Brando DOUBLES-DOWN on his Hootie = HERO claim.
Also, my guess is Jake is right and he's doing this to get pub for his new radio show on the CBS radio network deal which is struggling bad.
@steakNstiffarms 1h
Now asked @TimBrando five times (the fifth per his request to ask again) why Darius Rucker is a hero, but Jason Collins isn't. No response.
Expand


Tim Brando ‏@TimBrando 41m
@steakNstiffarms he and his band at a very early age gave their entire fee for a Charity Event to a Charity. Never thinking it was special.
Expand


Elika Sadeghi ‏@steakNstiffarms 28m
.@TimBrando So... making a charitable contribution makes one a hero?
Expand


Tim Brando ‏@TimBrando 16m
@steakNstiffarms you got your answer.

!!!! I just paid my wifes entry fee for a 5k for autism... Im a... Hero?! Can I fly?!

 

[sabach]

Sure it is. The homosexual is abstaining because he or she has been told that the act is inherently sinful (in or outside of marriage, which the Warren church doesn't sanction). It is a position of shame. The heterosexual who's waiting for marriage is abstaining because they've been told that sex before marriage is not the ideal -- like we tell our children that you shouldn't have cookies before dinner. The heterosexual who chooses to abstain for life is doing so for reasons other than whether sex is sinful or not.

I don't know where you are getting your information but I can say as sure as I am alive that the Biblical Christian position is that all sex outside of marriage (pre and extra) is inherently sinful. I did not have sex with my wife before we got married not because I thought it was a good idea (like not eating cookies). I did so because I believed that it would be sinful and I wanted my actions to reflect the Bible I was trying to get others to believe in.