JB: "'Cuse recruits want ACC Tourney at MSG"

[Upstate]

No chance MSG agrees to a rotation. If the ACC does a rotation, we would have to be at one of the lesser NYC-area arenas

I don't think they agree to a rotation because they know they wouldn't be maximizing their revenue.

 

[alphaorange]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks there would be more Carolina area fans at MSG than Greensboro. NYC is not the end all of destinations for everyone particularly when you look at travel, tradition and added expense involved.
There maybe some folks in the South who wouldn't want the ACC in MSG because they know it would end up being a Syracuse home game from any standpoint you wanted to look at it.

Every place is a home game for somebody...

 

[SJUBall]

The games will be sold out regardless. MSG needs butts in the seats. The first couple BET's will have great attendance but once the novelty wears off actual attendance will drop. And really, the thought of syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, duke, UNC, Notre Dame playing on Thursday and Friday beats anything the BE can offer.

Also, look at stubhub prices when Syracuse isn't playing.

Also, just because you're no longer on ESPN the ratings will crater. MSG will want the ACC soon enough.

You are talking about the ACC WITH Coach K, Boeheim and Pitino, all of whom will be moving on their merry way very soon, followed by Ole Roy Williams. Don't think those 4 carry nearly all the basketball weight in the ACC now. The rest of the member schools in the ACC are nearly irrelevant and will draw few to NYC.

There are also counter-forces to the ACC and MSG like the fact that lots of the schools won't want to move the tourney up north every year. The novelty of an ACC losing the best 3 coaches in the game very soon will weigh heavy on the gravitas that the ACC has, make no mistake. I can see why Boeheim is pushing for it before his retirement.

The Big East has a contract and those benchmarks that have been set, I'm pretty sure will be met by our northeast basketball brethren. Let me tell you that uconn no longer gets 1/10th the amount of fans traveling to MSG for SJU games as they did a few seasons ago. Things can always change, and do. Hopefully the Big East and Fox who will be a big player in sports television, push back.

 

[cusetown1]

You are talking about the ACC WITH Coach K, Boeheim and Pitino, all of whom will be moving on their merry way very soon, followed by Ole Roy Williams. Don't think those 4 carry nearly all the basketball weight in the ACC now. The rest of the member schools in the ACC are nearly irrelevant and will draw few to NYC.

There are also counter-forces to the ACC and MSG like the fact that lots of the schools won't want to move the tourney up north every year. The novelty of an ACC losing the best 3 coaches in the game very soon will weigh heavy on the gravitas that the ACC has, make no mistake. I can see why Boeheim is pushing for it before his retirement.

The Big East has a contract and those benchmarks that have been set, I'm pretty sure will be met by our northeast basketball brethren. Let me tell you that uconn no longer gets 1/10th the amount of fans traveling to MSG for SJU games as they did a few seasons ago. Things can always change, and do. Hopefully the Big East and Fox who will be a big player in sports television, push back.

At the end of the day nobody cares about St Johns other than you and maybe a few others.

 

[Alsacs]

You are talking about the ACC WITH Coach K, Boeheim and Pitino, all of whom will be moving on their merry way very soon, followed by Ole Roy Williams. Don't think those 4 carry nearly all the basketball weight in the ACC now. The rest of the member schools in the ACC are nearly irrelevant and will draw few to NYC.

There are also counter-forces to the ACC and MSG like the fact that lots of the schools won't want to move the tourney up north every year. The novelty of an ACC losing the best 3 coaches in the game very soon will weigh heavy on the gravitas that the ACC has, make no mistake. I can see why Boeheim is pushing for it before his retirement.

The Big East has a contract and those benchmarks that have been set, I'm pretty sure will be met by our northeast basketball brethren. Let me tell you that uconn no longer gets 1/10th the amount of fans traveling to MSG for SJU games as they did a few seasons ago. Things can always change, and do. Hopefully the Big East and Fox who will be a big player in sports television, push back.

When St. John's was good during the 2011 Big East Tournament who had more fans in the arena for the St. John's-Syracuse quarterfinal game? If you say St. John's that would be false. MSG is suppose to be your "home" away from home, and during that game and almost every St.John's-Syracuse game since 1998 Syracuse have had equal if not more Syracuse fans than St. John's fans at the games between the two programs and you guys have over 20k students. Syracuse, Duke, North Carolina, Louisville are going to be fine in the future all we have more dollars flowing into their program in 1 year than any Big East school will get over 4 years. The Melo Center will recruit for us fine, and I would add that Mike Hopkins the next SU coach is one of the best young recruiters in the country, and Duke/North Carolina are blue blood top 5 jobs.

 

[NKR1978]

The Big East has a contract and those benchmarks that have been set, I'm pretty sure will be met by our northeast basketball brethren. Let me tell you that uconn no longer gets 1/10th the amount of fans traveling to MSG for SJU games as they did a few seasons ago. Things can always change, and do. Hopefully the Big East and Fox who will be a big player in sports television, push back.

You make some decent points, but agree to disagree because I think our brands are big enough to survive the coming coaching changes; and in the spirit of charity I will focus on our common former enemy. UConn's attendance has been a joke for years. The couldn't come close to selling out the civic center (16,241) for our game with them this year. It was a joke. We still get 16,000 for the Colgate's and Middle Tennessee's of the world.

 

[StopCoolio]

Oh good, the only St. John’s fan in the universe is back to tell us how relevant SJU is.

 

[realorange]

I guess NC, Louisville and Syracuse were never relevant before the present coaches.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

I see/hear the statement made all the time that UNC, Syracuse, Duke and Louisville all have old coaches and will fade away after they retire. Look at the facilities and fan bases for all 4 programs and it's easy to see that this will not be the case. All 4 have insane revenues from basketball - Louisville has the best facilities and arena in all of college basketball, Syracuse has the largest arena, Duke has the most legendary/toughest place to play, UNC has the most recognized brand along with the largest fan base in all of college basketball. Any of the 4 can have just about any coach they want. I'll also add that all 4 programs are THE sports team for their city/area. Way too many strengths to make a coach retiring bring down the program.

 

[SJUBall]

I see/hear the statement made all the time that UNC, Syracuse, Duke and Louisville all have old coaches and will fade away after they retire. Look at the facilities and fan bases for all 4 programs and it's easy to see that this will not be the case. All 4 have insane revenues from basketball - Louisville has the best facilities and arena in all of college basketball, Syracuse has the largest arena, Duke has the most legendary/toughest place to play, UNC has the most recognized brand along with the largest fan base in all of college basketball. Any of the 4 can have just about any coach they want. I'll also add that all 4 programs are THE sports team for their city/area. Way too many strengths to make a coach retiring bring down the program.

Don't be so sure. Coaches make those schools. Things can change for sure, look at UCLA. What was Syracuse basketball before Boeheim? Don't underrate his importance. Louisville took a few years off between Denny Crum and Pitino. Like decades. UNC hired a few guys between Dean and Roy.

Cuse and Louisville have a lot to lose after Boeheim and Pitino step down. Duke has even more to lose because they don't even have decent facilities. Their program is all about the coach. Don't underrate the importance. Cuse is desperately trying to hang on to a grip in NYC for a reason.

 

[realorange]

Don't be so sure. Coaches make those schools. Things can change for sure, look at UCLA. What was Syracuse basketball before Boeheim? Don't underrate his importance. Louisville took a few years off between Denny Crum and Pitino. Like decades. UNC hired a few guys between Dean and Roy.

Cuse and Louisville have a lot to lose after Boeheim and Pitino step down. Duke has even more to lose because they don't even have decent facilities. Their program is all about the coach. Don't underrate the importance. Cuse is desperately trying to hang on to a grip in NYC for a reason.

Yeah, I guess you are right. SJU went to Hell after Louie left and never came back.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Don't be so sure. Coaches make those schools. Things can change for sure, look at UCLA. What was Syracuse basketball before Boeheim? Don't underrate his importance. Louisville took a few years off between Denny Crum and Pitino. Like decades. UNC hired a few guys between Dean and Roy.

Cuse and Louisville have a lot to lose after Boeheim and Pitino step down. Duke has even more to lose because they don't even have decent facilities. Their program is all about the coach. Don't underrate the importance. Cuse is desperately trying to hang on to a grip in NYC for a reason.

UCLA is a terrible example. 1. They made the Final 4 three years in a row just a few years back. 2. They are the 5th or 6th most important team in their city. Nice try though.

 

[Bayside44]

Don't be so sure. Coaches make those schools. Things can change for sure, look at UCLA. What was Syracuse basketball before Boeheim? Don't underrate his importance. Louisville took a few years off between Denny Crum and Pitino. Like decades. UNC hired a few guys between Dean and Roy.

Cuse and Louisville have a lot to lose after Boeheim and Pitino step down. Duke has even more to lose because they don't even have decent facilities. Their program is all about the coach. Don't underrate the importance. Cuse is desperately trying to hang on to a grip in NYC for a reason.

Honestly. A St John's fan is the last person in this group that should be talking about changing demographics. I grew up there, Chris Mullin's kids aren't walking through that door.

You see what Duke is paying K? They won't have a problem with getting whoever they need. Ditto UNC. We will be fine with Hopkins, UL will be fine after Pitino. This isn't the old Big East, the facilities and infrastructure of the ACC will support the programs.

An SJU-SU game in 1988 and in 2013 are completely different experiences, and your 1988 crowd (sadly, I admit) isn't coming back.

 

[SJUBall]

Honestly. A St John's fan is the last person in this group that should be talking about changing demographics. I grew up there, Chris Mullin's kids aren't walking through that door.

You see what Duke is paying K? They won't have a problem with getting whoever they need. Ditto UNC. We will be fine with Hopkins, UL will be fine after Pitino. This isn't the old Big East, the facilities and infrastructure of the ACC will support the programs.

An SJU-SU game in 1988 and in 2013 are completely different experiences, and your 1988 crowd (sadly, I admit) isn't coming back.

How many SEC teams with amazing infrastructure are flying high? C'mon. Infrastructure doesn't win games and never has. Coaches do.

 

[Chris02M]

I could see acc giving msg a trial run of 3 straight(with 3 afterwards in Greensboro) then making a decision on a permanent location

 

[Chris02M]

I could see acc giving msg a trial run of 3 straight(with 3 afterwards in Greensboro) then making a decision on a permanent location. will msg accept taking 3 years as a tial who knows?

 

[SJUBall]

I could see acc giving msg a trial run of 3 straight(with 3 afterwards in Greensboro) then making a decision on a permanent location. will msg accept taking 3 years as a tial who knows?

They can't. Right now they have a long deal with the Big East who is committed yearly for the next 12 years. I don't believe they can just break it, unless the Big East fails to draw fans which IMO won't be a problem. No doubt Syracuse wants this. It would be a boon for both Syracuse and ESPN. Not sure it's so grest for the southern schools who would ALL be playing an away game against Syracuse every ACC tourney, which is why I don't think it will happen.

 

[orangefan13]

They could do something like split the first round games at msg and a south venue then rotate the quarterfinals and the rest of the tournament every other year. Do it with a north and south division for the fans.

You would miss four games and get more blowouts in the first round without the bye formula, but
you would atleast get the fun of watching Cuse and 3 other games in one day in the off years. And keep the feeling of the first and second rounds meshing into one tournament every other year.

Base the tournament on the first 8 seeds where three of the top four seeds could be in the north or the south to keep the quarterfinals fair.

north- syracuse, Pitt, ND, Ville, BC, UV, VT,
South- Duke, UNC, NCstate, GT, FSU, Miami, Wake, Clemson (rotate one of them north alternating)

 

[Chris02M]

They can't. Right now they have a long deal with the Big East who is committed yearly for the next 12 years. I don't believe they can just break it, unless the Big East fails to draw fans which IMO won't be a problem. No doubt Syracuse wants this. It would be a boon for both Syracuse and ESPN. Not sure it's so grest for the southern schools who would ALL be playing an away game against Syracuse every ACC tourney, which is why I don't think it will happen.

if espn wants it to happen it likely will at some point

 

[Captnhowdy]

ESPN/ABC has enough muscle to make it happen.

 

[Alsacs]

Don't be so sure. Coaches make those schools. Things can change for sure, look at UCLA. What was Syracuse basketball before Boeheim? Don't underrate his importance. Louisville took a few years off between Denny Crum and Pitino. Like decades. UNC hired a few guys between Dean and Roy.

Cuse and Louisville have a lot to lose after Boeheim and Pitino step down. Duke has even more to lose because they don't even have decent facilities. Their program is all about the coach. Don't underrate the importance. Cuse is desperately trying to hang on to a grip in NYC for a reason.

You are now a troll with these comments, and I find it funny everytime you speak your ignore my comments directed at you because you don't want to deal with those facts.
1. FACT Syracuse basketball matters more than St. John's basketball in NYC right now.
2. FACT St. John's hasn't won an NCAA tournament game since 2000.
3. FACT Syracuse has been in the top 3 in attendance in college basketball every year since 2000. Kids want to play in front of large crowds.
4. FACT Syracuse has the Carmelo Anthony Center on campus that does wonders for recruiting.
5. FACT Syracuse will be fine post Jim Boeheim obviously the job will be difficult for anybody to replace, but as long as we have big crowds, have the Melo Center we will recruit.

Syracuse is holding onto MSG for alums who donate big $$$ to the program. We will get games in MSG with or without St. John's a la Duke. The MSG people will host any Syracuse game we will schedule their, but the only difference is that it won't be a conference game and it will be a non-conference game that is taken away from the Dome. We used conference road games as de facto home games against Rutgers, Seton Hall, St. John's. Now it will be non-conferences game thank you for your interest in Syracuse basketball and realize our program is fine. St. John's on the other hand needs to win basketball games and hope that Georgetown/Marquette carry the banner for the conference. Good luck holding onto the MSG site for the post-season tournament. If MSG has a choice between the Big East or ACC they will take the ACC every day.

 

[baggerbob]

Its only a matter of how long it takes ESPN, and MSG to get the ACC in the building for their tournament. Money always wins out, that's why the Big 5 conferences have the big contracts.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Don't be so sure. Coaches make those schools. Things can change for sure, look at UCLA. What was Syracuse basketball before Boeheim? Don't underrate his importance. Louisville took a few years off between Denny Crum and Pitino. Like decades. UNC hired a few guys between Dean and Roy.

Cuse and Louisville have a lot to lose after Boeheim and Pitino step down. Duke has even more to lose because they don't even have decent facilities. Their program is all about the coach. Don't underrate the importance. Cuse is desperately trying to hang on to a grip in NYC for a reason.

Syracuse made the final four the year before Boeheim became head coach.

 

[normaliswear]

They can't. Right now they have a long deal with the Big East who is committed yearly for the next 12 years. I don't believe they can just break it, unless the Big East fails to draw fans which IMO won't be a problem. No doubt Syracuse wants this. It would be a boon for both Syracuse and ESPN. Not sure it's so grest for the southern schools who would ALL be playing an away game against Syracuse every ACC tourney, which is why I don't think it will happen.

Not trying to be mean... I like the Jonnies and I'm glad we'll continue to play. But the truth is you're entering a mid-major level conference now and the gulf between the Big 5 and the mid-majors is only going to widen as the resource and exposure gaps widen. It may be possible for an individual program or two to thrive in this environment as Gonzaga has done... but the days of the BE having more than one or two nationally relevant programs at a time are over. Therefore, the days of the BET as a premier event are over... and MSG knows that. The reason nobody reporting on ACC interest in MSG has bothered to mention he BE's contract as anything more than a speed bump is because it isn't. The only impediments to the ACC taking MSG is whether the southern schools will agree to do it full time. As I live near Greensboro, selfishly I'd prefer a rotation. But the exposure and the gravitas of the ACC fighting it out in MSG every year is probably what's best for the conference, and will likely win out. Either way, whether the ACCT is at MSG full time or not will have nothing to do with the BE. The BE trying to stop the ACC and MSG from coming together if they decide that's what they want to do is akin to a bug trying to stop a windshield.

 

[arbitragegls]

The ACC tournament hasn't been selling out in NC anyway. If it was in NYC which is a destination city you would get ACC fans, local NYC residents, and would dominate Championship week on ESPN.

Here is status at this point...keep the faith:
1. Research done already by ACC/ESPN shows ACC fans will TRAVEL to NYC for BBall Tournament
2. ESPN would like ACC to play MSG--and would be very positive for the ACC Network even if games are not shown initially on it
--Provides ESPN a win VS. Fox and OLD BE bball (Georgetown etc)
3. PR would be significantly increased if tournament played at MSG
4. Attraction for 'Cuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, UNC, Duke will drive attendance--all these significantly larger in student bodies and alumns than Georgetown, Butler etc ( I know Bees, I know about capacity)

The questions left to answer--and being answered fairly quickly are:
1. How can MSG break NBE contract ASIDE from parameters such as attendance goals
2. Will MSG/ACC take ACC tournament in 3-5 year segments rather than a 10-20 year consecutive contract
---close to being decided (then #1 becomes key)
3. Will ACC give something to ESPN to make ACC Network happen earlier
--see ESPN wanting MSG above
--of course MSG needs to say YES to ACC
4. What affect if any does FOX purchase of share of YES NETWORK play a role in this scenario...
--FOX owns rights to OLD BE bball (Georgetown etc)
--FOX does BTN
--B1G wants eastern corridor
--OH my, is there a potential rotation for MSG making it easier for ACC to get to NYC

Yup, #4 (last point) is a reality being dealt with...belief that MSG and ACC will have a marriage of some kind within the near future...and don't forget actual play cannot start for at least two more years.