JB: "'Cuse recruits want ACC Tourney at MSG"

[SJUBall]

Not trying to be mean... I like the Jonnies and I'm glad we'll continue to play. But the truth is you're entering a mid-major level conference now and the gulf between the Big 5 and the mid-majors is only going to widen as the resource and exposure gaps widen. It may be possible for an individual program or two to thrive in this environment as Gonzaga has done... but the days of the BE having more than one or two nationally relevant programs at a time are over. Therefore, the days of the BET as a premier event are over... and MSG knows that. The reason nobody reporting on ACC interest in MSG has bothered to mention he BE's contract as anything more than a speed bump is because it isn't. The only impediments to the ACC taking MSG is whether the southern schools will agree to do it full time. As I live near Greensboro, selfishly I'd prefer a rotation. But the exposure and the gravitas of the ACC fighting it out in MSG every year is probably what's best for the conference, and will likely win out. Either way, whether the ACCT is at MSG full time or not will have nothing to do with the BE. The BE trying to stop the ACC and MSG from coming together if they decide that's what they want to do is akin to a bug trying to stop a windshield.

No, the contract is an impediment. The Big East and MSG have one. It is ignorant to just say "if ESPN wants it, it will happen". They might get creative somehow to get ACC in there, but it won't be by moving the Big East out. Espn has a major competitor in FOX sports now who also has rights to PAC-12, Big 12 and will likely have some say. Not sure why Cuse fans taking pot shots at SJU. I haven't taken shots at Cuse here. Just stated that Boeheim built this ship, and replacing him successfully is not as guaranteed as many here think.

 

[arbitragegls]

No, the contract is an impediment. The Big East and MSG have one. It is ignorant to just say "if ESPN wants it, it will happen". They might get creative somehow to get ACC in there, but it won't be by moving the Big East out. Espn has a major competitor in FOX sports now who also has rights to PAC-12, Big 12 and will likely have some say. Not sure why Cuse fans taking pot shots at SJU. I haven't taken shots at Cuse here. Just stated that Boeheim built this ship, and replacing him successfully is not as guaranteed as many here think.

Please read the post...#1 is present contract that your conference has...nothing moves forward with ACC if contract cannot be broken...if it can be broken read the rest of the post...you are going to be toast!
Wonder which team brings more fans to MSG when we play the Johnnies...'Cuse of course by wide margin.

 

[normaliswear]

No, the contract is an impediment. The Big East and MSG have one. It is ignorant to just say "if ESPN wants it, it will happen". They might get creative somehow to get ACC in there, but it won't be by moving the Big East out. Espn has a major competitor in FOX sports now who also has rights to PAC-12, Big 12 and will likely have some say. Not sure why Cuse fans taking pot shots at SJU. I haven't taken shots at Cuse here. Just stated that Boeheim built this ship, and replacing him successfully is not as guaranteed as many here think.

I'm sorry but that's just naïve. The BE contract is breakable... or do you really think all these people discussing the ACC and MSG have just plain forgotten this unbreakable bond MSG already has lol? What pot shots were taken? Its not a pot shot to say the new BE is a mid-major... its not even debatable. Your assertion wasn't just about JB and cuse, but the ACC as a whole which was just silly. Its possible Hopkins goes all Greg Robinson on the program and falls flat on his face, true. I doubt it, but it could happen. But that would only create a power swing to a different program within the ACC. Year to year the relative strength on the power conferences may swing... but as long as realignment doesn't cause another major shift, it will be these 5 and then everyone else far behind. A much better analogy for ACC basketball would be SEC football. For different stretches Florida could be the top dog, or Alabama, or Auburn, or LSU, or Tenn, or Georgia... and sometimes these individual programs make take significant steps back as coaches leave or other issues arise... but there are always a number of teams that are very good. That's not the case with the new BE... at best they can hope for a Gonzaga-like dominant and nationally relevant team. MAYBE even two. But the rest of the league would always be the Washington Generals in that scenario and not enough to make the BET nationally relevant.

 

[All4SU]

I think the best thing for the conference would be rotating it. I know arenas seem to like long term contracts but that's because tis best for them. Rotating it between Atlanta, Greenboro, Charlotte and MSG would be great.

I would even say MSG, Atlanta and Charlotte. Forget Greensboro. But that's not ping to happen.

 

[Moontan]

With the additional 3 teams, tickets could be tougher to come by. The Georgia Dome is set up for 26,000 for the SEC Championship. They could easily increase that (by opening the top deck) if there was demand. The ACC could play there as well, though they tend not to fill up Philips Arena... even though all 19,520 tickets were sold.

 

[Bayside44]

How many SEC teams with amazing infrastructure are flying high? C'mon. Infrastructure doesn't win games and never has. Coaches do.

You gotta pay those guys. Basketball is a hobby in the SEC, and Florida and UK still seem to win titles

 

[senorpalmer]

I believe the Big East will continue to be a viable conference with a quality product. There are plenty of non-big 5 programs that have proven track records of sustaining success in college basketball. Programs like Marquette and Xavier have done well prior to joining the Big East. It is not going to turn into the A10 as many here suggest.

But the league will suffer a big hit in its drawing power. Syracuse, Pitt, ND, UCon are big losses. As an attendee of the BET for 30 years, the presence of SU in a Big East session has an enormous impact on ticket demand. You can consistently see a huge difference in ticket prices on a Thursday quarterfinal between a session SU plays in and a session that does not include them. Syracuse playing on a Friday night semi at MSG causes a huge spike in ticket prices in the secondary market. And when Syracuse gets bounced early, you can get that Friday ticket for about a 1/3 of the price.

The Big East simply cannot match the star power of the new ACC. Some combo of Gtown, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, Nova makes for a better semifinal round than what some other major conferences can offer, but pales when compared to a theoretical slate of Duke, UNC, Louisville and SU. ACC members are the only real possible obstacle from the ACCT owning the Garden in March down the road.

 

[Alsacs]

No, the contract is an impediment. The Big East and MSG have one. It is ignorant to just say "if ESPN wants it, it will happen". They might get creative somehow to get ACC in there, but it won't be by moving the Big East out. Espn has a major competitor in FOX sports now who also has rights to PAC-12, Big 12 and will likely have some say. Not sure why Cuse fans taking pot shots at SJU. I haven't taken shots at Cuse here. Just stated that Boeheim built this ship, and replacing him successfully is not as guaranteed as many here think.

Big East basketball will be a good conference, but it won't obviously be the best conference it has been since 2005. You seem to think that just because you have a contract it can't be repudiated. Obviously the MSG people are going to give the Big East teams a chance to continue the relationship, but you fail to realize my points. The Big East is FULL of SMALL FANBASES now. The top 3 schools in attendance were 1. Syracuse 2. UConn 3. Louisville. St. John's is located in NY and even if they aren't expected to win the tournament should send more fans each year. You guys played Nova this year and I you guys didn't own the crowd for that session. MSG isn't going to keep the Big East conference in the Garden unless they fill the arena up. Fox hasn't been a competitor with ESPN instead they have been called FOSPN by NBC executives. ESPN has a good relationship with FOX they both hate NBC, and while I expect FOX to compete with ESPN it isn't the war you think it is. MSG will remain with the Big East for now, but once MSG can repudiate the contract, and the ACC will commit its tournament there it will happen.

 

[Alsacs]

Hey SJUBall I hope you saw the story that Coach K is strongly considering staying on as USA Olympic coach thru 2016. I guess he isn't going anywhere. Do you have any idea who has been one of his assistant coaches? That would be one Jim Arthur Boeheim. The move to the ACC and success from last year is going to charge up Jim Boeheim.

Also thank you for not responding to my comments because it just shows me you can't deal with facts that make your argument look bad, and thank you for your interest in Syracuse basketball.

 

[TexanMark]

IMHO...Hops low water mark will be something along the line of Pastner at Memphis...Cuse will allow him about 4 years of that performance and then show him the door. Cuse is a destination school (Top 10 program) and would then go out and buy a proven coach.

 

[Cuseregular]

ESPN needs a tournament to replace the Big East Tournament, and they have the money, the Garden needs teams with prestige, it will happen just a matter of when.

yep to much $ to be made to not have it happen.

 

[Chris02M]

I'm sure msg has some ability to get out of the bigeast deal in the short term, long term probably only the attendance thing. I'd love to see msg get some acc tournaments but if it doesn't happen we will make the best of Greensboro.

Best Case in the next decade:

2014:Greensboro
2015:Greensboro
2016:MSG
2017:MSG
2018:MSG
2019:Greensboro
2020:Greensboro
2021:Greensboro

 

[cuseincincy]

IMHO...Hops low water mark will be something along the line of Pastner at Memphis...Cuse will allow him about 4 years of that performance and then show him the door. Cuse is a destination school (Top 10 program) and would then go out and buy a proven coach.

No way Hop gets fired if he has the same results as Pastner his first 4 years. Those numbers are, dare I say, Boeheimian. (JB career % .747, .655 in conference).

SeasonTeamOverallConferenceStandingPostseason
Memphis Tigers (Conference USA) (2009–2013)
2009–2010 Memphis 24–10 13–3 2nd NIT Second Round
2010–2011 Memphis 25–10 10–6 4th NCAA Second Round
2011–2012 Memphis 26–9 13–3 1st NCAA Second Round
2012–2013 Memphis 31–5 16–0 1st NCAA Third round
Memphis Tigers (American Athletic Conference) (2013–present)
2013–2014 Memphis 0–0 0–0
Memphis: 106–34 (.757) 52–12 (.813)

Total:​

106–34 (.757)

 

[TexanMark]

No way Hop gets fired if he has the same results as Pastner his first 4 years. Those numbers are, dare I say, Boeheimian. (JB career % .747, .655 in conference).

SeasonTeamOverallConferenceStandingPostseason
Memphis Tigers (Conference USA) (2009–2013)
2009–2010 Memphis 24–10 13–3 2nd NIT Second Round
2010–2011 Memphis 25–10 10–6 4th NCAA Second Round
2011–2012 Memphis 26–9 13–3 1st NCAA Second Round
2012–2013 Memphis 31–5 16–0 1st NCAA Third round
Memphis Tigers (American Athletic Conference) (2013–present)
2013–2014 Memphis 0–0 0–0
Memphis: 106–34 (.757) 52–12 (.813)

Total:​

106–34 (.757)

Pastner was playing against easier competition...plus a 1-1 NIT record and and 1-3 NCAA record is not that impessive. I'd say that would squarely put Hops on the Hot seat after 4 years.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

I noticed how some people on the board keep making reference to enrollment being low at a lot of schools and therefore will lead to a smaller turn out for the new BET. Back in the early to late 80's when the league took off, wasn't it those same small schools (Gtown, St. John's, Nova, Hall) along with SU and Pitt who put the Big East on the map and would sell out the garden with only "9" mostly small catholic schools??? People need to put down the Orange Kool-Aid and realize that the new BE has a of quality basketball programs still in it and should have no problem retaining MSG for years to come.

 

[Alsacs]

I noticed how some people on the board keep making reference to enrollment being low at a lot of schools and therefore will lead to a smaller turn out for the new BET. Back in the early to late 80's when the league took off, wasn't it those same small schools (Gtown, St. John's, Nova, Hall) along with SU and Pitt who put the Big East on the map and would sell out the garden with only "9" mostly small catholic schools??? People need to put down the Orange Kool-Aid and realize that the new BE has a of quality basketball programs still in it and should have no problem retaining MSG for years to come.

LOL, read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_Oklahoma
You realize their is a reason the big boys of college football make more money than college basketball programs. That case was while the Big East Catholic schools were good, and look what has happened since.
Facts are facts, the small Catholic schools don't have large fanbases because they are small schools. St. John's used to own NYC, but they don't anymore. I don't disagree the Big East solid hoops programs, but they don't have large fanbases the flagship program of the Big East could get 10.5k fans per game in a 20k seat arena. Creighton has good attendance, but they are the best basketball program in a football state where a bunch of non-alum Cornhusker fans support Creighton. You obviously drink Big East-Kool-Aid if you can't realize Syracuse had more fans in at MSG for the 2011 Big East tournament game against St. John's when St. John's is located in Queens, NY and has more student than Syracuse does. MSG wouldn't be talking with the ACC if they were worried about the Catholic schools filling up the building.

 

[TexanMark]

I noticed how some people on the board keep making reference to enrollment being low at a lot of schools and therefore will lead to a smaller turn out for the new BET. Back in the early to late 80's when the league took off, wasn't it those same small schools (Gtown, St. John's, Nova, Hall) along with SU and Pitt who put the Big East on the map and would sell out the garden with only "9" mostly small catholic schools??? People need to put down the Orange Kool-Aid and realize that the new BE has a of quality basketball programs still in it and should have no problem retaining MSG for years to come.

I can buy some of that...but come on...there are no Ewings on any of these teams. GTown, Nova and SJU are a nice start but losing Cuse and UConn will hurt. Seton Hall and Providence have never been noted to have large fan turnouts at MSG. SJU as Bayside states is far different student fan base than in the 80s. Creighton has a large fan base but they are half a country away in Omaha. I think you'll see an arena only half full on Friday night unless SJU, Nova and GTown are all ranked and still alive.

 

[cuseincincy]

I noticed how some people on the board keep making reference to enrollment being low at a lot of schools and therefore will lead to a smaller turn out for the new BET. Back in the early to late 80's when the league took off, wasn't it those same small schools (Gtown, St. John's, Nova, Hall) along with SU and Pitt who put the Big East on the map and would sell out the garden with only "9" mostly small catholic schools??? People need to put down the Orange Kool-Aid and realize that the new BE has a of quality basketball programs still in it and should have no problem retaining MSG for years to come.

Its not the Kool-Aid. Yeah Gtown, SJU, SHU, Providence and Nova are still there. But SU, UConn, BC, and Pitt are not. Those schools fans were within driving distance of the BET. Xavier, Butler, Creighton will not send 1/5 of the fans that SU, UConn, BC and Pitt did. The new schools are great mid-major hoop programs with good local followings. They don't travel. Just like Marquette and Depaul fans don't travel to the BET. Also, Notre Dame is gone, their fans didn;t need to travel because they are everywhere. Rutgers is in freaking NJ and they never brought fans to the BET. The Big East is still fine basketball league. Its better than the A-10 ever was. But it is not on par with what the BE was or what the other major conferences are. Basketball-wise the New BE may be top 5, but not in # of fans. Its just not.

 

[sutomcat]

UNC had at least 7,000 fans when we played them at MSG. They will have no trouble making their presence known at the Garden.

I agree. UNC and Duke have far bigger fan bases in NYC than any Big East has ever had, with the exception of Syracuse. Add in the novelty factor for the other ACC schools, and the fact that they all have good fan bases that love and support their schools better than most BE programs (I was shocked at how well Miami travelled to DC for the NCAA tournament; they had 3 or 4K there), and the demand for tickets would be unmatched in college basketball conference tournament history.

If the ACC tourney comes to MSG, SU fans are going to have to work harder than ever to get good tickets to the games. It would not be a Syracuse Invitational by any means.

 

[baggerbob]

Ewing, Mullin, Pinckney, Berry, aren't at those schools anymore, and won't be anytime soon.

 

[TheCusian]

MSG/NYC could be a megaphone PR-wise for the ACC. It's really a no brainer.

While not everyone loves NYC - it's got to be favored over Charlotte as a place to visit - by a metric ton.

This will happen. We know it will work. Best BB conference in MSG = win for everyone, including NC schools.

 

[orangefan13]

Right bring a big time top 10 american city to the acc. Make that top 5. Why not :noidea:

 

[Lawrinson14]

Right bring a big time top 10 american city to the acc. Make that top 5. Why not :noidea:

I'm fairly certain, albeit somewhat biased cause i live here, that NYC is the #1 American City. I'd even go as far as saying it's the #1 city in the world.

 

[riskylogic]

I don't think they agree to a rotation because they know they wouldn't be maximizing their revenue.

This is the problem, but I think MSG is wrong. The ACC, B1G, AAC, NBE, and the A10 would all love to have MSG in their rotation. But, I don't think any of them want to be there all the time. MSG could make more money with annual contracts.

 

[tbouks02]

This is the problem, but I think MSG is wrong. The ACC, B1G, AAC, NBE, and the A10 would all love to have MSG in their rotation. But, I don't think any of them want to be there all the time. MSG could make more money with annual contracts.

The AAC, NBE, and A10 would do anything to have MSG every year.