JB's Presser after BC

[Cusefan0307]

LOL.

You wouldn't take Tyus over Buddy? Really?

And Tyus played PG for LONG stretches during the huge Duke game.

Sure, Elijah is better but is it about having the one better player or is about having many better players so that the team can win games?

With Tyus Battle on the team, our defense is MARKEDLY better. No question in my mind and that shouldn't be debatable. Buddy doesn't hold a candle to Tyus in that category, or any category other than three-point shooting.

If Battle came back he probably would have been the PG this year and played with Buddy a ton. Buddy probably has a similar season to what he has now, but knowing JB he keeps the ball in Battles hands instead of Hughes and that would be a net negative for the offense. Looking back I think JB should have ran the offense through Hughes a lot more last year than he did. Tyus' favorite shot was the 18 footer which he made like 35 percent of the time. I think the question needs to be asked why our offense is 5ppg better and overall more efficient with him gone. Is that just a coincidence?

 

[SUFan44]

If Battle came back he probably would have been the PG this year and played with Buddy a ton. Buddy probably has a similar season to what he has now, but knowing JB he keeps the ball in Battles hands instead of Hughes and that would be a net negative for the offense. Looking back I think JB should have ran the offense through Hughes a lot more last year than he did. Tyus' favorite shot was the 18 footer which he made like 35 percent of the time. I think the question needs to be asked why our offense is 5ppg better and overall more efficient with him gone. Is that just a coincidence?

Don't disagree that the offense has been a lot better -- our efficiency is #22 in the nation this year, up from #59 last year.

But the defense, while not just on Buddy, has been absolutely abysmal. From #30 last year to #133. That's 103 spots. Battle helps that number.

Also, our schedule this year compared to last year isn't as tough. Our non-conference schedule was #223. Our overall SOS is #64 compared to #38 last year. We played 8 top 30 schools last year -- just 4 this year, according to KenPom.

I am of the opinion that you don't just simply get rid of the best player on your team because he's inefficient. He was inefficient, in part, because of the way the coach runs his offense and in part because the other guys on the team weren't stepping up.

What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do the other guys get better with him here? Do they step up and play like they have this year, taking pressure off Battle? One thing I do know is that we don't have enough good players on our team.
Battle is a good player. He would have helped us more than he hurt us, that is for damn sure.

 

[Newhouser]

JB acknowledges BC was missing 3 key players first question and says it's no big deal.wasn't a factor. really ?
if that scenario was flipped we are totally SCREWED.

Yeah that made me laugh out loud

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

LOL.

You wouldn't take Tyus over Buddy? Really?

And Tyus played PG for LONG stretches during the huge Duke game.

Sure, Elijah is better but is it about having the one better player or is about having many better players so that the team can win games?

With Tyus Battle on the team, our defense is MARKEDLY better. No question in my mind and that shouldn't be debatable. Buddy doesn't hold a candle to Tyus in that category, or any category other than three-point shooting.

Tyus can't shoot. Sitting Buddy on the bench doesn't help him develope. We weren't going to do much this year, Tyus or no Tyus.
Buddy grew much more as a player this year than he would have with Tyus still in the program.
Tyus was a good player for us on bad(for SU) teams. Keeping him one more year wouldn't help the program going forward.

 

[4the Dubbz]

I would have liked to have seen what we would have been defensively with Tyus. I think a lot of those closer games would have been different.

 

[SUFan44]

Tyus can't shoot. Sitting Buddy on the bench doesn't help him develope. We weren't going to do much this year, Tyus or no Tyus.
Buddy grew much more as a player this year than he would have with Tyus still in the program.
Tyus was a good player for us on bad(for SU) teams. Keeping him one more year wouldn't help the program going forward.

Battle was a good player for us, period. A very good player. He nearly single handedly went into Duke and beat Duke. Name me a “good player on a bad team” that does that. Let’s not start with the revisionist history crap.

 

[jdubs30]

Eli gets the opposing teams 2nd best defender and Buddy gets the 3rd if Tyus stays

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Battle was a good player for us, period. A very good player. He nearly single handedly went into Duke and beat Duke. Name me a “good player on a bad team” that does that. Let’s not start with the revisionist history crap.

I didn't intend to belittle him. He was a good/very good player. He was on a bad (again, for SU) team. Having him here another year would not help SU next year, and likely would have slowed the development of a lot of players, especially Buddy.

 

[SUFan44]

Eli gets the opposing teams 2nd best defender and Buddy gets the 3rd if Tyus stays

If Battle played point, makes some sacrifices to showcase things for the league, with Girard off the bench, tell me how that makes anyone worse?

 

[SUFan44]

I didn't intend to belittle him. He was a good/very good player. He was on a bad (again, for SU) team. Having him here another year would not help SU next year, and likely would have slowed the development of a lot of players, especially Buddy.

We need better players. Battle is a very good player. If he stays, we are a better team this year and we make the NCAA Tournament in a weak ACC. Why would I care about next year when we have looked at next year for the last five years? When will it be this year?

 

[Ghost]

I think the question needs to be asked why our offense is 5ppg better and overall more efficient with him gone. Is that just a coincidence?

It's likely because teams score really, really, really quickly against us! So we get more possessions and shoot more threes!

Just looking against conference opponents as that's a good barometer of similarly situated squads:

From three, last year, we outshot our opponents by a bunch (by percentage). This year, we are getting trounced. It's really not that pretty...at all. In lots of ways.

From two, last year we outshot our opponents by a bunch (by percentage). This year, we have a slight edge so far.

We make way more free throws this year though in conference by percentage/overall!

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's likely because teams score really, really, really quickly against us! So we get more possessions and shoot more threes!

Just looking against conference opponents as that's a good barometer of similarly situated squads:

From three, last year, we outshot our opponents by a bunch (by percentage). This year, we are getting trounced. It's really not that pretty...at all. In lots of ways.

From two, last year we outshot our opponents by a bunch (by percentage). This year, we have a slight edge so far.

We make way more free throws this year though in conference by percentage/overall!

No. Efficiency is better this year on offense. Net efficiency on defense is worse. We are averaging 75ppg and giving up 70. Last year it was 69 and 66. It’s not about the schedule either.

We are shooting better from 2, the foul line, have more assists and less turnovers.

 

[SU94]

I didn't intend to belittle him. He was a good/very good player. He was on a bad (again, for SU) team. Having him here another year would not help SU next year, and likely would have slowed the development of a lot of players, especially Buddy.

I mean, couldn't you say that about every senior?
In 1989-90, should we have jettisoned Coleman so that Conrad could develop quicker? No. . Way.
This year's team makes the NCAAs with Battle and EH headlining. And that is always good for any program's health, but especially ours.

Bottom line, I LOVE this team and their trajectory (even if EH leaves).

There is a lot to be excited for moving forward: New Dome, a rejuvenated offense, an improving defense, Buddy as a upperclassman, JG3 with a year under his belt, a slightly weaker ACC, enhanced athleticism incoming (Woody, Richmond), some depth/production at the "5," the potential of a high-end transfer is real, the momentum that comes with the Dior Class/'22.

 

[SUFan44]

I mean, couldn't you say that about every senior?
In 1989-90, should we have jettisoned Coleman so that Conrad could develop quicker? No. . Way.
This year's team makes the NCAAs with Battle and EH headlining. And that is always good for any program's health, but especially ours.

Bottom line, I LOVE this team and their trajectory (even if EH leaves).

There is a lot to be excited for moving forward: New Dome, a rejuvenated offense, an improving defense, Buddy as a upperclassman, JG3 with a year under his belt, a slightly weaker ACC, enhanced athleticism incoming (Woody, Richmond), some depth/production at the "5," the potential of a high-end transfer is real, the momentum that comes with the Dior Class/'22.

Agree about everything except the “slightly weaker ACC”. That was this year, not moving forward.

 

[SU94]

Agree about everything except the “slightly weaker ACC”. That was this year, not moving forward.

I meant "slightly weaker" than we've seen our first 5-6 years in the ACC. I agree this year is an aberration for the league, but the bottom line is that "all" (not literally) current ACC frosh, sophs and juniors will be back next year, so it will very likely continue to be running a bit below peak performance. Still a tough tough league.

 

[SUFan44]

I meant "slightly weaker" than we've seen our first 5-6 years in the ACC. I agree this year is an aberration for the league, but the bottom line is that "all" (not literally) current ACC frosh, sophs and juniors will be back next year, so it will very likely continue to be running a bit below peak performance. Still a tough tough league.

ESPN’s Top 100 - Class of 2020
#4 - Florida State
#11 - UNC
#14 - UNC
#15 - Duke
#17 - UNC
#18 - Duke
#23 - Duke
#24 - Duke
#28 - Duke
#32 - Miami
#33 - Virginia
#39 - UNC
#42 - Clemson
#44 - NC State
#46 - Virginia
#50 - Duke
#55 - UNC
#62 - NC State
#66 - Virginia Tech
#77 - Miami
#85 - SYRACUSE
#92 - Boston
#94 - Virginia Tech
#96 - Louisville
#98 - Pitt

Louisville also has the top JUCO player in the nation coming in.

We will likely lose our best player to the professional ranks.

I think the league will be a lot better - and I’m not sure how we will be.

 

[SU94]

ESPN’s Top 100 - Class of 2020
#4 - Florida State
#11 - UNC
#14 - UNC
#15 - Duke
#17 - UNC
#18 - Duke
#23 - Duke
#24 - Duke
#28 - Duke
#32 - Miami
#33 - Virginia
#39 - UNC
#42 - Clemson
#44 - NC State
#46 - Virginia
#50 - Duke
#55 - UNC
#62 - NC State
#66 - Virginia Tech
#77 - Miami
#85 - SYRACUSE
#92 - Boston
#94 - Virginia Tech
#96 - Louisville
#98 - Pitt

Louisville also has the top JUCO player in the nation coming in.

We will likely lose our best player to the professional ranks.

I think the league will be a lot better - and I’m not sure how we will be.

All well and good. Maybe the best conference in the land next year (the B1G will taper off), but I am not a huge believer that 20-25 freshman are going to make this an ACC that could match up with what came through the league from 2013-18. And that is nothing to be ashamed of.

I mean, let's get past amazingly consistent Duke for a second (almost always Top 10, if not Top 4)
What makes you think that ...

• '20-21 UNC is going to be better than their upperclassmen-laden teams that went to consecutive Final Fours (and won once);
• Next year's UL (probation likely) > 2013 Louisville squad that cheated, but won it all? No.
• '20-21 Virginia > the (hate to type this) UVA/Tony Bennett juggernaut that existed the last 6-7 years? They had 3 first-rounders + Kyle Guy.
• The Irish averaged 27+ wins/year in three seasons from 2014-17. Got to two E8s.
• Heck, SU was better in 2013-15 than we are now.

FSU and VT are better now, and maybe Clemson too. But subtly better and not nearly enough to trump the declines that Virginia, UNC, SU and UL have taken compared to a few year back.

The ACC is still the biggest-baddest league in the land, but it is not what it was when SU, UL, ND and a stouter Pitt entered the fray in 2013.

 

[Ghost]

No. Efficiency is better this year on offense. Net efficiency on defense is worse. We are averaging 75ppg and giving up 70. Last year it was 69 and 66. It’s not about the schedule either.

We are shooting better from 2, the foul line, have more assists and less turnovers.

Okay, I find the efficiency ratings curious - so using efficiency ratings, etc...make me the case that Buddy now is better Tyus of last year. Outside of effective field goal percentage, would there be any?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Okay, I find the efficiency ratings curious - so using efficiency ratings, etc...make me the case that Buddy now is better Tyus of last year. Outside of effective field goal percentage, would there be any?

No. Stop making every post about Buddy for once. It had zero to do with my post. He’d still play if Tyus was here anyway and Tyus would be the pg.

This is about the offense on the whole and the fact that if Tyus was here he would take shots away from Hughes who is a better offensive player cause JB always favors his veterans and it wouldn’t be good for the offense overall. I think if Tyus is here we probably are still looking at a bubble season at best.

 

[Horn88]

No. Stop making every post about Buddy for once. It had zero to do with my post. He’d still play if Tyus was here anyway and Tyus would be the pg.

This is about the offense on the whole and the fact that if Tyus was here he would take shots away from Hughes who is a better offensive player cause JB always favors his veterans and it wouldn’t be good for the offense overall. I think if Tyus is here we probably are still looking at a bubble season at best.

I find it incredibly difficult to agree with the notion that if you swap out Girard for a senior Tyus Battle we aren't markedly better. The two players aren't even close. And Hughes would still get plenty of shots.

• Defense would be worlds better.
• Buddy would get cleaner looks.
• Battle was great down the stretch in close games, Girard makes plenty of stupid plays at crucial moments.
• Teams can't focus on Hughes as much so helps him.
• The team's overall athleticism on the floor is raised a level.

ACC is not good this year. Battle gets us more wins in conference and we're sitting comfortable on Selection Sunday.

 

[Ghost]

No. Stop making every post about Buddy for once. It had zero to do with my post. He’d still play if Tyus was here anyway and Tyus would be the pg.

This is about the offense on the whole and the fact that if Tyus was here he would take shots away from Hughes who is a better offensive player cause JB always favors his veterans and it wouldn’t be good for the offense overall. I think if Tyus is here we probably are still looking at a bubble season at best.

You mentioned Buddy multiple times in the post I replied to. Settle down. He's a major factor on the team.

I just find the reliance about efficiency to be a tad off - as, who cares, or as DC would say, whoop-de-damn doooo.

'Whoop-de-damn-do' re-visted

Eighteen years later, “Whoop-de-damn-do” lives on. In 1994, Derrick Coleman famously uttered those words when asked about Kenny Anderson missing practice.

www.espn.com

It doesn't translate to anything anyone should care about except people that have subscriptions to KP. I would surmise that having a second player that could dribble, do something creative with the ball, and score against teams that have athletes, MIGHT, MIGHT, MIGHT just offset the slight gain we get against really, really, really crappy teams that we would beat anyway.

Which is why I was curious as to Buddy vs Tyus and their efficiency as I would imagine Buddy must destroy Tyus in all efficiency stats.

We're significantly better with Tyus on this team. I bet when Hughes leaves, if we can get some 40'ish percent three point shooter, that doesn't do much else, we can get that efficiency even higher...and I still would rather have Hughes. Even if he might take shots away from that guy.

If Tyus were here, BB should playing VERY limited minutes. He likely would still play big minutes, but that would be a problem too. Cuz, defense.

 

[Ghost]

I find it incredibly difficult to agree with the notion that if you swap out Girard for a senior Tyus Battle we aren't markedly better. The two players aren't even close. And Hughes would still get plenty of shots.

• Defense would be worlds better.
• Buddy would get cleaner looks.
• Battle was great down the stretch in close games, Girard makes plenty of stupid plays at crucial moments.
• Teams can't focus on Hughes as much so helps him.
• The team's overall athleticism on the floor is raised a level.

ACC is not good this year. Battle gets us more wins in conference and we're sitting comfortable on Selection Sunday.

Nope. Hughes wouldn't get any shots, and spacing. Spacing would go to heck. We may not win 10 games.

 

[tbonezone]

it was a little crazy to bring up tyus battle and oshae brissett leaving early but we all know what's running thru JB's mind. he'd like all his stars to serve full term. and hey to be fair he's judged on wins and it serves his own best interest if these kids stayed . and let's be real he's been a bit flippant in the past about early entries. but i think he's come around a bit. he sees the writing on the wall and understands today's landscape. K made the adjustment well and JB said last night you have to prepare for your stars to leave early. i think he knows elijah is gone. and hell yes it'd be great to have tyus back this year but would you want to face zion as a junior ?

 

[Cusefan0307]

You mentioned Buddy multiple times in the post I replied to. Settle down. He's a major factor on the team.

I just find the reliance about efficiency to be a tad off - as, who cares, or as DC would say, whoop-de-damn doooo.

'Whoop-de-damn-do' re-visted

Eighteen years later, “Whoop-de-damn-do” lives on. In 1994, Derrick Coleman famously uttered those words when asked about Kenny Anderson missing practice.

www.espn.com

It doesn't translate to anything anyone should care about except people that have subscriptions to KP. I would surmise that having a second player that could dribble, do something creative with the ball, and score against teams that have athletes, MIGHT, MIGHT, MIGHT just offset the slight gain we get against really, really, really crappy teams that we would beat anyway.

Which is why I was curious as to Buddy vs Tyus and their efficiency as I would imagine Buddy must destroy Tyus in all efficiency stats.

We're significantly better with Tyus on this team. I bet when Hughes leaves, if we can get some 40'ish percent three point shooter, that doesn't do much else, we can get that efficiency even higher...and I still would rather have Hughes. Even if he might take shots away from that guy.

If Tyus were here, BB should playing VERY limited minutes. He likely would still play big minutes, but that would be a problem too. Cuz, defense.

No. I just read my posts in the thread. I never once mentioned him being better than Battle in the thread. That is dumb. You’re mixing me up with another poster, but yes if it’s spot up shots I want him shooting over Battle and I want Hughes to have the ball instead of Battle. Just give it a rest. You moan about him in every thread it’s Impossible to mention anything about the team overall with you bringing him up.

 

[syrBossHogg]

If Battle came back he probably would have been the PG this year and played with Buddy a ton. Buddy probably has a similar season to what he has now, but knowing JB he keeps the ball in Battles hands instead of Hughes and that would be a net negative for the offense. Looking back I think JB should have ran the offense through Hughes a lot more last year than he did. Tyus' favorite shot was the 18 footer which he made like 35 percent of the time. I think the question needs to be asked why our offense is 5ppg better and overall more efficient with him gone. Is that just a coincidence?

RE: last year I think JB made the right move running the offense thru Tyus. Last year Elijah was more of a spot up shooter and while he could get to the rim and finish, he couldn't do it consistently. Elijah has improved his handle and iso game a lot from last year to this year.