Jerami Grant stays vs. Jerami Grant goes

[jekelish]

Getting drafted in the NBA has nothing to do with if a player is ready. It's all on does he have elite athleticism and future potential. Grant has the athleticism. Now it all comes down to does he have a couple of big games in the NCAAT. If he does he'll be gone (like MCW). And if he doesn't play that well on the big stage games, he'll be back.

I agree with your overall sentiment but MCW leaving and being drafted where he was had nothing to do with a couple games in the tourney. He was gone before then, and he was already a lottery pick no matter what he did. I think the same, sadly, is true of Grant. His combo of length, athleticism and basketball IQ is tantalizing to scouts, no matter how ready he is or isn't.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

There have been too many examples of guys staying for an extra year and killing their draft stock for Grant not to go. Sullinger went from top 5 pick to low 20's, Perry Jones went from top 5 pick to late first. Look at Mcadoo had he left after his first year he would have been a lottery pick. The only guy I can think of that helped himself was Blake Griffin. For football example I bet Barkeley wishes he left. At the end of the day if you are a lottery pick statistically speaking if you stay another year you are more likely to drop then move up.

 

[jekelish]

There have been too many examples of guys staying for an extra year and killing their draft stock for Grant not to go. Sullinger went from top 5 pick to low 20's, Perry Jones went from top 5 pick to late first. Look at Mcadoo had he left after his first year he would have been a lottery pick. The only guy I can think of that helped himself was Blake Griffin. For football example I bet Barkeley wishes he left. At the end of the day if you are a lottery pick statistically speaking if you stay another year you are more likely to drop then move up.

Another perfect football example is Leinart. He may have been the #1 pick but came back and fell out of the top 10.

The best example though is a guy whose name escapes me. He was about a 6-8 forward for Maryland who people were drooling over after his freshman year...Terrance something? He wound up slipping each and every year. Blew his huge payday big time.

 

[PeteCalvin]

I remember the good old days...when threads created to discuss topics of pure speculation, rooted in nothing other than sheer boredom, (such as, 'Hey, what if this guy decides to leave?') were summarily pounced upon with piercing sarcasm and smart ass responses. Yep, those were the days...when said authors were crucified mercilessly and made to feel lothesome for wasting the board's time.

Jerami Grant isn't ready to go pro, so to discuss the topic is a waste of time. Come back and re-post the thread in April after the trophy comes home to Syracuse. Only then will this will be a relevant question.

 

[Knicks411]

Another perfect football example is Leinart. He may have been the #1 pick but came back and fell out of the top 10.

The best example though is a guy whose name escapes me. He was about a 6-8 forward for Maryland who people were drooling over after his freshman year...Terrance something? He wound up slipping each and every year. Blew his huge payday big time.

Terrence Morris. Yeah he was probably a lotto pick ater his second year. Stayed all 4 years, was a second rounder.
Just scanning his stats, his junior year was pretty similar to his soph year, but his senior year he really fell off.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I remember the good old days...when threads created to discuss topics of pure speculation, rooted in nothing other than sheer boredom, (such as, 'Hey, what if this guy decides to leave?') were summarily pounced upon with piercing sarcasm and smart ass responses. Yep, those were the days...when said authors were crucified mercilessly and made to feel lothesome for wasting the board's time.

Jerami Grant isn't ready to go pro, so to discuss the topic is a waste of time. Come back and re-post the thread in April after the trophy comes home to Syracuse. Only then will this will be a relevant question.

pete, the floor was yours to bring out the mop & slop bucket and send little boy blue here back to buffalo with a tear in his eye, his blankee and a baba...and i cant say you really failed, wouldve liked a little more fire, but all in all a solid effort.

however, lets just take a look at what happened here...alsacs is actually out here apologizing for his response posts for crying out loud!! i know its Christmas but come on man!! pete, you couldve come out here like wyatt earp at the OK Corral firing at both clanton and mclaury, so you get a couple of demerits.

but thank god we didnt let the holiday go by without at least 1 more 'this team has blank players who will be in the NBA' thread.

Oh Lord

 

[anomander]

He is gone. No ifs about it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

50/50 on this one. Family could be a big influence. Wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[PeteCalvin]

pete, the floor was yours to bring out the mop & slop bucket and send little boy blue here back to buffalo with a tear in his eye, his blankee and a baba...and i cant say you really failed, wouldve liked a little more fire, but all in all a solid effort.

however, lets just take a look at what happened here...alsacs is actually out here apologizing for his response posts for crying out loud!! i know its Christmas but come on man!! pete, you couldve come out here like wyatt earp at the OK Corral firing at both clanton and mclaury, so you get a couple of demerits.

but thank god we didnt let the holiday go by without at least 1 more 'this team has blank players who will be in the NBA' thread.

Oh Lord

Oh Kaiser, My Kaiser, I do apologize for letting the youngling off easy, but I was in a rush and only had enough time to post what I did. Please forgive me for not crushing TrueBlue25 with the force of 10,000 suns. I promise to do better next time.

 

[pfister1]

I honestly see him being drafted top 8, despite the freshman class. Jerami has proven that he shines during crunch time and we'll have plenty of that january-march.

I don't think the staff can promise him a CJ mid range shot if he stays. CJ came in with decent shooting mechanics, Grant just looks all over the place.

I think he goes in the draft. He's project top 15 right now and I think we all know he'll only improve as the season goes on.

There is no way he is top 8 ...... he has to make significant additional progress before the end of the season to go top 8. This is just crazy talk right now.

 

[newmexicuse]

My over/under is 19, ie, if it looks like he gets drafted 19 or higher then he goes, and I think the odds of him going in the Top 19 is probably 90%.

 

[LAOrange]

That 2012 UK team was really awesome too. They had what, 4 or 5 first rounders? And Davis was one of the better players in the last decade or so.

09 UNC was great as well. And the second of the two UF teams was incredible.

1996 Kentucky (the team we lost to) had 9 NBA players on it: Magloire, Delk, McCarty, Pope, Anderson, Sheppard, Mohammed, Mercer and Padgett.

 

[HOFCeluck]

1996 Kentucky (the team we lost to) had 9 NBA players on it: Magloire, Delk, McCarty, Pope, Anderson, Sheppard, Mohammed, Mercer and Padgett.

If you adhere to Kenpom the answer would be Kansas from 2008.

Very underrated champion due to the fact that their only visible NBA player is Mario Chalmers.

 

[OttoMets]

1996 Kentucky (the team we lost to) had 9 NBA players on it: Magloire, Delk, McCarty, Pope, Anderson, Sheppard, Mohammed, Mercer and Padgett.

They're not of the last decade, but that 1996 team was so much better than 2009 UNC (very good), 2007 Florida (good, but they lost a lot of games), or 2012 Kentucky (meh, they were untested and had a nice six-game run).

Not only was 1996Kentucky a fantastic, well-coached, balanced collection of future pros, they did this:
86-point half in a conference game.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That 2009 team was fine, but that's not even the best UNC champ of the last decade.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah I was definitely not thinking back to 96; but that UK team was loaded.

2007 Florida (good, but they lost a lot of games), or 2010 Kentucky (meh, they were untested and had a nice six-game run).

I assume you mean 2012 UK, right? I think they were great, mainly because I think Davis was one of the better college players in the last decade or so. They went 38-2. The SEC may not have been great, but Florida and Vanderbilt were both top 15 Kenpom teams. They went 5-1 against them. They beat Carolina/Kansas/Louisville out of conference (2 at home, one neutral), lost to a very good IU team on a buzzer beater @ indiana. Then they beat 5 top 25 Ken Pom teams in the tournament, and I don't remember them really looking they were gonna lose any of them.

2007 Florida lost 5 games, which may be one or two more than you'd like from a great team. I may be giving them too much credit, but I also think they were kinda on auto pilot for a lot of the regular season. It's weird from a college team cause there is generally so much turnover but they brought the same 5 starters back from the year before and I think they knew they could flip the switch come March. They started 24-2, had a 1 seed wrapped up, and then they coasted a bit, losing 3 road games to solid teams, but they blitzed the SEC and NCAA tournaments, winning every game by 7 or more points.

That 2008 KU team was really underrated; just a ton of good to great college players

 

[Rocco]

If you are assured a spot in the lottery I feel you should go 99% of the time. If you are financially secure and slipping out of the lottery doesn't bother you and you like college fine but most the time this is not the case. Being ready really has almost nothing to do with this decision IMO. LeBron was ready when he was 18, Parker is ready, Melo and Durant where ready after 1 season doesn't mean they didn't still have to adjust and learn things. If you can go for sure in the lottery and get guaranteed money its a very sound decision no mater what happens after that.

Edit: I really feel that if fans would stop viewing these things as basketball decisions ad instead view them as financial decisions it would make it much easier on them. If you were a first year business student and someone offered you a CEO of a major corporation with a guaranteed 4 year deal plus all benefits and stock options (advertising/marketing for a player) you take it weather you are ready or not because there is no guarantee that no matter how ready you are at a later date you ever see that offer again. Sure maybe you are the worst CEO ever but you banked enough to live on for the rest of your life in those 4 years.

Spot on. Now we're talking. There is something to be said about guaranteed money. Let the pro's coach you up, not college.

 

[OttoMets]

Yeah I was definitely not thinking back to 96; but that UK team was loaded.



I assume you mean 2012 UK, right? I think they were great, mainly because I think Davis was one of the better college players in the last decade or so.

2007 Florida lost 5 games, which may be one or two more than you'd like from a great team. I may be giving them too much credit, but I also think they were kinda on auto pilot for a lot of the regular season. It's weird from a college team cause there is generally so much turnover but they brought the same 5 starters back from the year before and I think they knew they could flip the switch come March. They started 24-2, had a 1 seed wrapped up, and then they coasted a bit, losing 3 road games to solid teams, but they blitzed the SEC and NCAA tournaments, winning every game by 7 or more points.

That 2008 KU team was really underrated; just a ton of good to great college players

Looks like I'm a little off. Yep, I meant 2012 Kentucky, not 2010. Maybe I'm still a little bitter about how our season ended that year, but I wasn't wildly impressed. Davis was very good, a bunch of those guys were talented, but the SEC was so weak. I watched them eke by some really bad teams and get the benefit of strangely one-sided officiating (a road game against Mississippi State comes to mind). They won the games they needed to, of course, and Kansas was a good opponent. Just never saw them as a great team.

I'm misremembering about Florida; I recalled all the February talk about "what's wrong with the Gators?" and thought they lost 7 games. Five isn't bad at all, and it's very tough to repeat and take that Super Bowl effort from every opponent. They were a good and complete team.

Of the last decade, I like 2005 and 2009 UNC and 2004 (ugh) UConn. 2008 Kansas was good, too. 2010 Duke and 2011 UConn were, of course, the worst. And none compares to champions from a decade earlier.

 

[CusefanATL]

+1

Listen, I would love for all our kids to stay, but if they stay 2 years and are guaranteed a first round pick then if its up to the player. Grant likely won't need the $$$ like others, but its decision. The ONLY player I felt shouldn't leave early was Donte Greene because I didn't think he showed enough to be picked in the first round. He barely got drafted in the late 20's and his career ended because he didn't develop quick enough. If he stays that 2nd year he goes into the league a more finished product and had a chance to stick longer, but I was never upset at the kid because he gambled on himself and atleast got some money while he had the chance. If I could get have taken the bar after 1 year of law school with a job offer your damn right I would have done it.

His career ended because the day before he was signing his contract he shattered his foot.

And it hasn't ended yet. He will be back in the league next year IMO.

 

[Knicks411]

Looks like I'm a little off. Yep, I meant 2012 Kentucky, not 2010. Maybe I'm still a little bitter about how our season ended that year, but I wasn't wildly impressed. Davis was very good, a bunch of those guys were talented, but the SEC was so weak. I watched them eke by some really bad teams and get the benefit of strangely one-sided officiating (a road game against Mississippi State comes to mind). They won the games they needed to, of course, and Kansas was a good opponent. Just never saw them as a great team.

I guess I just gotta disagree with you there. They played 15 games against the Pomeroy top 25, they went 13-2. 6 of those wins were by double figures, with another 3 by 8 or 9. Just as a for instance, the 2012 Cuse team played 8 games all year against top 25 Ken Pom teams (and 2 more vs Cincy, who was 26th). In 2010, we played 8 games as well against KP top 25.

The SEC for sure wasn't great that year, but like I said, UF and Vanderbilt were pretty good. And overall, UK killed that league. They outscored the league by like .28 points per possession which is a ridiculous figure. 5 of their 16 games in the league were decided by less than double digits, and 2 of those were 9 point wins. And like I said, I'm in love with Davis as a player, so I'd put them up against most of the great teams of the last decade or so.

I'm misremembering about Florida; I recalled all the February talk about "what's wrong with the Gators?" and thought they lost 7 games. Five isn't bad at all, and it's very tough to repeat and take that Super Bowl effort from every opponent. They were a good and complete team.

Yeah I thought it might have been more as well; it was 3 losses in 4 or 5 games.

Of the last decade, I like 2005 and 2009 UNC and 2004 (ugh) UConn. 2008 Kansas was good, too. 2010 Duke and 2011 UConn were, of course, the worst. And none compares to champions from a decade earlier.

I'm normally very skeptical of the idea of "it was better back in the day", at least in pro sports, but obviously in college, with guys leaving earlier and earlier, there is a lot more to it. The great teams of the 80's were probably a cut above the great teams of this period. (Imagine Anthony Davis, for instance, as a junior or senior?)

 

[Dave85]

NBA is full of players who have all the same abilities as Grant. I think it would be a mistake for him to leave college without a good outside game because I just don't think he will get any playing time until he does. He has 12.9 ppg, and 5.7 rpg right now. My biggest fear is once he goes pro he will not get much playing time, and as a result, he will have a short 2 or 3 year NBA career. We still have a long season to go but right now Grant does not hit many outside shots. In the NBA what makes Grant special now, his freakish athleticism, is everywhere in the NBA. What surprises me about the NBA is all the top players who came from mid-major schools and programs that are not in the top 10 every year. Becoming a successful player in the NBA is very difficult to do if not practically impossible.

 

[OttoMets]

I guess I just gotta disagree with you there. They played 15 games against the Pomeroy top 25, they went 13-2. 6 of those wins were by double figures, with another 3 by 8 or 9. Just as a for instance, the 2012 Cuse team played 8 games all year against top 25 Ken Pom teams (and 2 more vs Cincy, who was 26th). In 2010, we played 8 games as well against KP top 25.

The SEC for sure wasn't great that year, but like I said, UF and Vanderbilt were pretty good. And overall, UK killed that league. They outscored the league by like .28 points per possession which is a ridiculous figure. 5 of their 16 games in the league were decided by less than double digits, and 2 of those were 9 point wins. And like I said, I'm in love with Davis as a player, so I'd put them up against most of the great teams of the last decade or so.



Yeah I thought it might have been more as well; it was 3 losses in 4 or 5 games.



I'm normally very skeptical of the idea of "it was better back in the day", at least in pro sports, but obviously in college, with guys leaving earlier and earlier, there is a lot more to it. The great teams of the 80's were probably a cut above the great teams of this period. (Imagine Anthony Davis, for instance, as a junior or senior?)

Those are good numbers for UK. Just wasn't wowed when I watched them that season. My bias could be clouding this view.

College basketball was played at a very high level in the '80s, but I think a lot of the champions from the '90s would rank higher on a list of the most impressive teams. There were some serious upsets (North Carolina State, Villanova, Kansas) and some incredible teams beating each other up while a lesser team won (Illinois/Syracuse in 1989, with Michigan winning, for instance). In the '90s, a lot of those juggernauts escaped the upsets and won the championship. I'd put UNLV, 1994 Arkansas, 1996 and 1998 Kentucky, and 1999 UConn up toward the top of any "1980-1999 greatest champs" list; Georgetown and UNC are the only two '80s champs I'd include at that level. (And I agree with the point: four-year players made for very talented and cohesive teams in that era.)

 

[HOFCeluck]

Those are good numbers for UK. Just wasn't wowed when I watched them that season. My bias could be clouding this view.

College basketball was played at a very high level in the '80s, but I think a lot of the champions from the '90s would rank higher on a list of the most impressive teams. There were some serious upsets (North Carolina State, Villanova, Kansas) and some incredible teams beating each other up while a lesser team won (Illinois/Syracuse in 1989, with Michigan winning, for instance). In the '90s, a lot of those juggernauts escaped the upsets and won the championship. I'd put UNLV, 1994 Arkansas, 1996 and 1998 Kentucky, and 1999 UConn up toward the top of any "1980-1999 greatest champs" list; Georgetown and UNC are the only two '80s champs I'd include at that level. (And I agree with the point: four-year players made for very talented and cohesive teams in that era.)

Curious as to why you picked 1998 Kentucky.

 

[OttoMets]

Curious as to why you picked 1998 Kentucky.

I remember Shepard, Turner, and a couple of those other guys from the 1996 and 1997 teams being less heralded than the McCarty/Walker/Mercer types, but really solid college players who played well within the team concept (kind of like our 2010 seniors, only with more tournament success). It's not always easy to transition to a new coach, but they won a ton of games, only lost 3 or 4 with a difficult schedule, and got through Duke (who knocked us out) and Utah as part of a pretty challenging path to the title.

Not a lot of professional talent, but I remember them as a pretty well-rounded group that played well at both ends and was able to dominate over almost 40 games.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah when I was referring to 80's teams I didn't mean the champs necessarily, just the best teams from that era. I mean I think there was a UNC team with Kenny Smith, Perkins, Jordan, and Brad Daughtery that didn't win a title.

I think the 91/92 Duke back to back teams were great as well. Laettner and Hurley were fantastic college players, and Grant Hill was an all time great before the injuries got to him. Obviously the 90 Vegas team was loaded. Not sure I can agree on the 98 UK team. (So now you're higher on a UK team than me). Though I was only 13 when they won the title.

And hell, I know 99 Uconn beat Duke, but I'm still not sure they were better than that Duke team. And I remember the 2001 Duke team being pretty loaded too; Jay Williams was a monster as a college player, plus Battier/Boozer/Dunleavy/Duhon. How many college teams have that many guys with serious NBA careers? 4 of those guys played in the league last year; 12 years after they won the title, and the best player among the five was knocked out of the league after what, 2 years?