JJ Starling

[djcon57]

I will say JJ hasn’t looked consistent on defense all season and seems either out of position, overplays his man or reacts too slowly. But, I mean, if his metrics are bad and Bell’s and Judah’s are too, that just doesn’t track with us having had the 32nd best defensive efficiency in KenPom (it recently sank like a stone to 54th after the horrible string of 3 horrid defensive performances).

Maliq covers for everyone.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I will say JJ hasn’t looked consistent on defense all season and seems either out of position, overplays his man or reacts too slowly. But, I mean, if his metrics are bad and Bell’s and Judah’s are too, that just doesn’t track with us having had the 32nd best defensive efficiency in KenPom (it recently sank like a stone to 54th after the horrible string of 3 horrid defensive performances).

Bells are bad, but JJ is still worse. Judahs are respectable overall, but have cratered in conference play, but still better than JJ or Bell.

 

[Sherman20]

Maliq covers for everyone.

And I guess our ability to create steals/turnovers and block shots is helping our defensive efficiency numbers.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Bells are bad, but JJ is still worse. Judahs are respectable overall, but have cratered in conference play, but still better than JJ or Bell.

Could some of these numbers be skewed by who they are guarding? Is Bell given a top offensive player, is JJ? Judah? Etc Who is tagged with guarding opponents main offensive players?

 

[Cheriehoop]

if bell is guarding the top opponent ...red needs to be fired like yesterday..

Could explain though the difficulty of sometimes rating or comparing teammates or players statistically on defense. Even offensively most coaches scheme certain players to carry the load on offense, scheme plays for a player to score, have rated options (players) on offensive plays etc. There are always some nuances to comparing players.

 

[Niastri]

I will say JJ hasn’t looked consistent on defense all season and seems either out of position, overplays his man or reacts too slowly. But, I mean, if his metrics are bad and Bell’s and Judah’s are too, that just doesn’t track with us having had the 32nd best defensive efficiency in KenPom (it recently sank like a stone to 54th after the horrible string of 3 horrid defensive performances).

Turnovers forced. I'm not sure if it's personnel or the plan, but our guys seem content to let a guy beat them off the dribble so they can try to slap it away from behind. A few times a game, it's a steal and a layup the other way... Many times a game it's a layup or a foul for a teammate.

Pomeroy seems to value steals and blocks more than opponents field goal percentage. The theory goes, you can't control how well your opponent shoots, but you can control blocks and steals. Watching how easily we get scored on, I'm not sure I agree

 

[Cusefan0307]

Could some of these numbers be skewed by who they are guarding? Is Bell given a top offensive player, is JJ? Judah? Etc Who is tagged with guarding opponents main offensive players?

It’s usually Judah. I assume he will be on Joe tomorrow.

 

[tbonezone]

Could explain though the difficulty of sometimes rating or comparing teammates or players statistically on defense. Even offensively most coaches scheme certain players to carry the load on offense, scheme plays for a player to score, have rated options (players) on offensive plays etc. There are always some nuances to comparing players.

so true C. smart coaches will design a game plan to attack weakness. you see in football where a team won't throw in one direction becuz of an excellent corner. good teams attack you at your most vulnerable positions. for us defensively that's bell and taylor. that's what i'm seeing anyways.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Maliq covers for everyone.

He does. And that frequently puts himself at a disadvantage, both with defending his own guy and with rebounding position. So many of the times when we give up layups and offensive rebounds it’s because Maliq was ‘helping’ and the other team goes right around/behind him to the rim. Makes me scream.

 

[Dinkyspond]

It’s usually Judah. I assume he will be on Joe tomorrow.

I think we are going zone to protect Maliq from foul trouble with Hall and Scheiflin. They played it predominantly vs. Lville because the Cards supposedly couldn't shoot from outside.Maybe we're better in the zone with a game and 3 more practices under our belt with it.

 

[djcon57]

Was looking at the updated metrics this AM, got to says while eye test wise, at least offensively to me, he seems improved, his numbers are hideous.

0.0 BPM.

0.98 BPR - worst starter on the team, below Taylor
0.28 DBPR - worst starter on the team, below Bell by a lot

Not to say I’m not happy with a lot he’s shown but I’m concerned if we lose Judah and just roll into next season assuming JJ is going to fill his roll. Judah is a much better overall player right now.

 

[jdubs30]

Was looking at the updated metrics this AM, got to says while eye test wise, at least offensively to me, he seems improved, his numbers are hideous.

0.0 BPM.

0.98 BPR - worst starter on the team, below Taylor
0.28 DBPR - worst starter on the team, below Bell by a lot

Not to say I’m not happy with a lot he’s shown but I’m concerned if we lose Judah and just roll into next season assuming JJ is going to fill his roll. Judah is a much better overall player right now.

I do think part of that is because he plays the most minutes.

His offensive game looks better every time we see him. He’s a 3 level scorer. Considering he’s only a sophomore and had the shoulder injury, seeing this massive offensive jump at a time where some guys start to hit a wall is definitely nice to see. He does have things to improve on - finishing stronger, tighter handle, etc

I think he can be an excellent #2 option on a good team. He will probably never be a distributor but that’s ok. He’s a scoring guard.

He won’t be the Judah replacement because the are different positions. We will get a PG - and if we get a veteran guy who’s a good passer, JJ wil even take another step.

I was pessimistic early on but I do think he can turn into a Tyus Battle type on offense. Not sure if he’ll reach that level on D tho

 

[djcon57]

I do think part of that is because he plays the most minutes.

His offensive game looks better every time we see him. He’s a 3 level scorer. Considering he’s only a sophomore and had the shoulder injury, seeing this massive offensive jump at a time where some guys start to hit a wall is definitely nice to see. He does have things to improve on - finishing stronger, tighter handle, etc

I think he can be an excellent #2 option on a good team. He will probably never be a distributor but that’s ok. He’s a scoring guard.

He won’t be the Judah replacement because the are different positions. We will get a PG - and if we get a veteran guy who’s a good passer, JJ wil even take another step.

I was pessimistic early on but I do think he can turn into a Tyus Battle type on offense. Not sure if he’ll reach that level on D tho

yeah, didnt clarify, I meant if he’s put in the combo guard role like Judah, this team needs a PG next year

 

[Cstate]

yeah, didnt clarify, I meant if he’s put in the combo guard role like Judah, this team needs a PG next year

100%. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at his better shooting and smooth mid-range jumper. However, in his last 15 games, he has a TOTAL of 11 assists. That is just brutal for someone playing the minutes he does.

 

[Sherman20]

Was looking at the updated metrics this AM, got to says while eye test wise, at least offensively to me, he seems improved, his numbers are hideous.

0.0 BPM.

0.98 BPR - worst starter on the team, below Taylor
0.28 DBPR - worst starter on the team, below Bell by a lot

Not to say I’m not happy with a lot he’s shown but I’m concerned if we lose Judah and just roll into next season assuming JJ is going to fill his roll. Judah is a much better overall player right now.

The BPM is not a good stat. i don’t know why people focus on it so much. And his numbers are dragged down by his poor shooting and overall play earlier in the season. He’s been steadily improving since mid December and especially in ACC play.

 

[Sherman20]

100%. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at his better shooting and smooth mid-range jumper. However, in his last 15 games, he has a TOTAL of 11 assists. That is just brutal for someone playing the minutes he does.

Distributing the ball isn’t his role. He’s being asked to score and put pressure on the defense with his drives and pull ups. The coaches are looking to Judah and Q to be our distributors. That said, he still needs to look to pass and find open guys on his drives. But I think his assist numbers will improve with more time. He will not be the PG next season. I personally feel that Q and Westry will fill that spot. But I know others want a transfer.

 

[MikeSU02]

The BPM is not a good stat. i don’t know why people focus on it so much. And his numbers are dragged down by his poor shooting and overall play earlier in the season. He’s been steadily improving since mid December and especially in ACC play.

That’s not true at all re BPM. Hell, there people using regular plus minus in threads after last game.

It’s a solid stat. Isn’t perfect with defense, but it’s a good stat. It’s even better when used relative to historical play.

No idea why you think it’s not a good stat.

 

[Orangezoo]

That’s not true at all re BPM. Hell, there people using regular plus minus in threads after last game.

It’s a solid stat. Isn’t perfect with defense, but it’s a good stat. It’s even better when used relative to historical play.

No idea why you think it’s not a good stat.

Yeah - only issue I would just say is that given this year has been such a roller coaster, he’s been on the floor for most of the good and the bad and thus that tends to skew the numbers down some too. Not trying to relay excuses as I’ve had more than my share of criticisms of his play but it should be considered in the bigger picture

 

[djcon57]

The BPM is not a good stat. i don’t know why people focus on it so much. And his numbers are dragged down by his poor shooting and overall play earlier in the season. He’s been steadily improving since mid December and especially in ACC play.

Fair. I would push back on one point. You believe his defense has been improved in ACC play?

 

[syrBossHogg]

Was looking at the updated metrics this AM, got to says while eye test wise, at least offensively to me, he seems improved, his numbers are hideous.

0.0 BPM.

0.98 BPR - worst starter on the team, below Taylor
0.28 DBPR - worst starter on the team, below Bell by a lot

Not to say I’m not happy with a lot he’s shown but I’m concerned if we lose Judah and just roll into next season assuming JJ is going to fill his roll. Judah is a much better overall player right now.

How does that compare to his last season at ND though? It looks to be a noticeably improvement. Not saying much, but I think overall he seems to be on the right track development wise and can be a really good ACC guard as an upperclassmen. I would like to see his shooting continue to improve efficiency wise and see him get to the FT line more often.

 

[djcon57]

How does that compare to his last season at ND though? It looks to be a noticeably improvement. Not saying much, but I think overall he seems to be on the right track development wise and can be a really good ACC guard as an upperclassmen. I would like to see his shooting continue to improve efficiency wise and see him get to the FT line more often.

-3.5 last year. but he was hurt most of the year and that team stink and Brey packed it in.

 

[syrBossHogg]

My understanding is that BPM has the same flaws as plus minus rating in hockey. It doesn't isolate the individual defensive play from the overall result. So 4 guys could all be doing a good job defensively, but all it takes is one breakdown and everyone gets credited with a negative result. I could be wrong though

 

[djcon57]

My understanding is that BPM has the same flaws as plus minus rating in hockey. It doesn't isolate the individual defensive play from the overall result. So 4 guys could all be doing a good job defensively, but all it takes is one breakdown and everyone gets credited with a negative result. I could be wrong though

Technically yes. Here’s my counter.

2023-24 NBA Player Stats: Advanced | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the Advanced player stats for 2023-24 NBA Season and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

Sort by DPM and see who’s the top 10.

Somehow this metric that can’t isolate like you say picks out the known eye-test, word of mouth among the players, best defenders in the NBA

Outside of the big guys which is admittedly skewed for blocks and rebounds.

Additionally, closer to home, we’ve seen players play here and have good/bad DBPMs and leave, go into completely different defensive structure, different teammates, yet somehow their general DBPM range follows them.

Doesn’t seem like coincident to me

 

[Cusefan0307]

Chris Bell gets crushed on here and JJ has a considerably lower PER. I acknowledge his play has improved, but outside of scoring JJ doesn’t bring the team much else yet. He needs to commit himself at the defensive end in the offseason.

 

[djcon57]

Chris Bell gets crushed on here and JJ has a considerably lower PER. I acknowledge his play Has improved, but outside of scoring JJ doesn’t bring the team much else yet. He needs to commit himself at the defensive end in the offseason.

I think some of that is JJ vs Bell’s demeanor, fair or not.