Joe Girard-Trevor Cooney

eatmatsroe

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the thing i remember most about cooney is that SU didn't have any 3 point shooters other than him. and while he played well in other aspects of the game he wasn't dependable enough making his shots.

cooney isn't as good of a shooter joe is. i don't care what stats you show.
 

JDubbin

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It is funny seeing Cooney being backed & supported here now, like posters don't remember how he was ROASTED on this board... how many times did we see "He's a DIII player!!!!" - I actually see the same phenomenon with Scoop, dude got torched by the board. A couple of years of space & they are remembered fondly.
 

moqui

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Um, yeah, you make great points, except for the fact that they are 100% WRONG.



Joe's career 3pt % was lower than Trevor's thru last year, and is now MUCH lower.

At least with Trevor, he wasn't completely useless on D.
oh by all means, compare a kid 4 games into his sophomore season with a 4 year player
or, for those interested in more of an apples to apples comparison, cooney shot 26.7% as a freshman and 26.5% through his first 36 games
jgiii hit 32.4 as a freshman and is at an even 32% through 36 career games

but if you want to strictly delimit the data in order to make a point, cooney was 10/22 through the first four games of his sophomore season, joe is 10/33. so, in the very small sample that limits itself to 4 sophomore year games, cooney has a clear advantage

i would hope that at least some of us will wait a few more games to pass summary judgement
 
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walsh2012

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I made this comparison in the game thread last night and it bums me out because Cooney was a nightmare to watch at times.

Hoping Joe can work things out as the season gets going.
 

OrangeDW

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Joe is a better offensive player at the same point. Cooney wasn’t much of a ball handler and had no PG skills, and while he could dunk in the open court with no defenders near him, he weirdly couldn’t get off the floor much in traffic and wasn’t much of a finisher. He was not a smooth operator when moving fast.

Cooney a way better defensive player, and Joe is flat out not going to be as good on that end. Even if his awareness and technique and effort somehow all go through the roof and match Cooney (unlikely) he’s still not going to be 6’4.
 

CuseFaninVT

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It is funny seeing Cooney being backed & supported here now, like posters don't remember how he was ROASTED on this board... how many times did we see "He's a DIII player!!!!" - I actually see the same phenomenon with Scoop, dude got torched by the board. A couple of years of space & they are remembered fondly.
Nahh, I still don't like Scoop.
 

MikeSU02

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oh by all means, compare a kid 4 games into his sophomore season with a 4 year player
or, for those interested in more of an apples to apples comparison, cooney shot 26.7% as a freshman and 26.5% through his first 36 games
jgiii hit 32.4 as a freshman and is at an even 32% through 36 career games

but if you want to strictly delimit the data in order to make a point, cooney was 10/22 through the first four games of his sophomore season, joe is 10/33. so, in the very small sample that limits itself to 4 sophomore year games, cooney has a clear advantage

i would hope that at least of us will wait a few more games to pass summary judgement

Apples to apples can't be a kid who played 11mpg versus a kid who got 33mpg if we are talking frosh years.

I wouldn't compare these two, regardless. TC was off ball. JGIII, for better or worse, has been on ball until very recently, most of the time.

Neither is a sharpshooter.

JGIII hasn't put together a string of two games in a row where he's shot at least 45% from the field. Let's just get Joe to a place where he's teed up for success.
 

moqui

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Apples to apples can't be a kid who played 11mpg versus a kid who got 33mpg if we are talking frosh years.

I wouldn't compare these two, regardless. TC was off ball. JGIII, for better or worse, has been on ball until very recently, most of the time.

Neither is a sharpshooter.

JGIII hasn't put together a string of two games in a row where he's shot at least 45% from the field. Let's just get Joe to a place where he's teed up for success.
of course, but it's more apples than the 4 year career to a kid who's just started his sophomore year

my biggest beef is that there are posters here who are actually invested in joe doing poorly. that's what happens when you identify a favorite player and start looking at other players as competitors for scarce minutes rather than teammates seeking to complement each other

i have a feeling my already long ignore list is going to grow exponentially this season
 

721Comstock

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of course, but it's more apples than the 4 year career to a kid who's just started his sophomore year

my biggest beef is that there are posters here who are actually invested in joe doing poorly. that's what happens when you identify a favorite player and start looking at other players as competitors for scarce minutes rather than teammates seeking to complement each other

i have a feeling my already long ignore list is going to grow exponentially this season

I like Joe. I think he did a pretty solid job for us last year, in the absence of any other truly viable options. He was the “tallest midget”

I hope he kills is it this year, and for his career.

But - basketball should be a meritocracy.
And in that world, the same one that earned Joe a starting role after his 2nd game, Kadary has now earned the starting role.

And Woody has earned minutes over Earl.

The best players play.
The others play less.
 

kirbivore

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Is Joe Girard the new Trevor Cooney. Trevor was a good player for SU but you never knew which Cooney would show up. The one that scored a whole lot of points or the one that didn't. So far you don't know which Girard will show up in the box score. Hopefully he will become a consistent scorer every night.

Cooney was a much better defender. Offensively JG is shakey potatoes.
 

cto

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How we love to rewrite history here.

Trevor Cooney was this forum's favorite whipping boy. Posters were always dissing him ... saying he couldn't shoot, wasn't athletic, just ran around, was a wasted scholarship, etc. Perhaps only Craig Forth was treated worse here.

I became friendly with Trevor's parents (great people), and it always pained me to see how the fan base treated him.

(With the Cooney family ..and Barbara Boeheim ... the day after Trevor's fabulous game against Gonzaga in the 2016 Sweet 16).

IMG_4817.jpeg
 
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OrangeDW

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I like Joe. I think he did a pretty solid job for us last year, in the absence of any other truly viable options. He was the “tallest midget”

I hope he kills is it this year, and for his career.

But - basketball should be a meritocracy.
And in that world, the same one that earned Joe a starting role after his 2nd game, Kadary has now earned the starting role.

And Woody has earned minutes over Earl.

The best players play.
The others play less.

Joe at this point might be ideal for the backup PG/spark off the bench guy.

He will surely come in and get hot at times, which is always a huge spark when a guy off the bench does that. He also can obviously handle backup PG. Of our 3 guards - he’s the best suited to play both spots. Given how good Kadary has looked and that is a pure PG as far as court vision/court sense...this makes a ton of sense.
 

oTTo113445

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If you took Joe's ability to create space off the bounce and put it on Cooney he would of been an nba player. Joe's ceiling is more Kemba than Cooney.

He's tough minded, and as hard of worker as we have ever had (without exaggerating), and that can't be taught. Just a short reality check that sometimes you can't settle comfortably into your sophmore season.
.
He can do whatever he wants on the floor for all I care as long as his assist-turnover ratio is strong. Rainbow bricks have a 2-day practice process deleting or adding.
 
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sufandu

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If we could combine Joe and Cooney we would have an AA. Girard has natural feel and moxie Cooney never had. Cooney had good size and really good athleticism but couldn't do a thing with the ball in his hands.
 

Bulldog04

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Cooney played every game hard. I have never seen Joe play hard. I’ve never seen him hustle for an entire game. Cooney played incredible D. Joe might be worst defender around. People say Joe is a better shooter. How can you say that ? Cooney made some really clutch shots, can’t say Joe has had those moments. Cooney could finish at the rim. Far superior player and played with heart hence why he was a part of 2 final four teams. I don’t like the Joe Cool act, play hard and Play better JG
 

kcsu

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Is Joe Girard the new Trevor Cooney. Trevor was a good player for SU but you never knew which Cooney would show up. The one that scored a whole lot of points or the one that didn't. So far you don't know which Girard will show up in the box score. Hopefully he will become a consistent scorer every night.
Joe wishes he was as good as the Coon Dog.
Trevor was an insatiable shooter but not a very good maker of those shots so they seem to share that trait. Other than that its not even close.
Trevor is bigger, faster, in much better physical condition, a superior athlete, and light years better as a defender. He is 4 inches taller than Joe and longer.
Trevor has a better haircut than Joe.
Joe throws a better spiral.
 

kcsu

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Apples to apples can't be a kid who played 11mpg versus a kid who got 33mpg if we are talking frosh years.

I wouldn't compare these two, regardless. TC was off ball. JGIII, for better or worse, has been on ball until very recently, most of the time.

Neither is a sharpshooter.

JGIII hasn't put together a string of two games in a row where he's shot at least 45% from the field. Let's just get Joe to a place where he's teed up for success.
Marist?
 

Red Holzman

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Cooney could drive me nuts with some of his decisions-
but as others posted: Cooney was solid on D. And as important always gave max effort = Respect.

Don't know if Joe plays with a governor expecting to go 40", but his effort doesn't match Cooney's.
Joe will never fill a stat sheet , or block a shot just by getting up on the shooter with his hands up.
Kadary can, and has.
Kadary as new starting PG and Joe 20-25" at the 2 to provide instant offense is my vote, right now.
Joe could have a great season hitting 3's in that new role. That's Joe's game -so let him focus on that.
 

malpearl31

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Cooney played every game hard. I have never seen Joe play hard. I’ve never seen him hustle for an entire game. Cooney played incredible D. Joe might be worst defender around. People say Joe is a better shooter. How can you say that ? Cooney made some really clutch shots, can’t say Joe has had those moments. Cooney could finish at the rim. Far superior player and played with heart hence why he was a part of 2 final four teams. I don’t like the Joe Cool act, play hard and Play better JG
I am 100% with you in thinking that Joe needs to play harder on D, and he needs to play better overall or he’s going to lose minutes to Kadary. But to say that Joe has not had clutch moments? C’mon, man. I’m old enough to remember back to late November, when Joe hit two huge clutch 3s late in the 2nd half against Bryant. And I also remember his OT-forcing jumper with :01 at Miami last March (when we lost Hughes for most of the 2nd half).

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Joe’s performance so far this year, but claiming that he hasn’t been clutch isn’t a valid one, in my opinion.
 

Bulldog04

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I am 100% with you in thinking that Joe needs to play harder on D, and he needs to play better overall or he’s going to lose minutes to Kadary. But to say that Joe has not had clutch moments? C’mon, man. I’m old enough to remember back to late November, when Joe hit two huge clutch 3s late in the 2nd half against Bryant. And I also remember his OT-forcing jumper with :01 at Miami last March (when we lost Hughes for most of the 2nd half).

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Joe’s performance so far this year, but claiming that he hasn’t been clutch isn’t a valid one, in my opinion.

You mean the game against Bryant where he was 0-11 with 6 turnovers before he hit the “clutch” shot ?
 

kcsu

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You mean the game against Bryant where he was 0-11 with 6 turnovers before he hit the “clutch” shot ?
" Even a blind Hog finds an Acorn once in awhile "
 

Jeremy L.

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How we love to rewrite history here.

Trevor Cooney was this forum's favorite whipping boy. Posters were always dissing him ... saying he couldn't shoot, wasn't athletic, just ran around, was a wasted scholarship, etc. Perhaps only Craig Forth was treated worse here.

I became friendly with Trevor's parents (great people), and it always pained me to see how the fan base treated him.

(With the Cooney family ..and Barbara Boeheim ... the day after Trevor's fabulous game against Gonzaga in the 2016 Sweet 16).

View attachment 192692

I was up at SU during Mayfest 2012 (during his redshirt season I believe). I met him at Chuck's and he was the nicest guy. Granted we were (allegedly) a few drinks in at that point, he told me how much he loved Syracuse and felt so glad to be there. It was an adjustment because he said nobody really knew who he was or probably cared who he was at the time. After that, I always supported Trevor no matter how frustrated I got with him.
 

malpearl31

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You mean the game against Bryant where he was 0-11 with 6 turnovers before he hit the “clutch” shot ?
Yes! Huge 3 to give us the lead when we were down by 2 with 2 minutes to play. It was epic.
 

Eric15

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THIS.

I’ll never forget the @ BC game, where a Trevor stole a pass, drive down and dunked ferociously.

I distinctly remember the BC students chanting "Cooney's ugly!" that game.
 

sufandu

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THIS.

I’ll never forget the @ BC game, where a Trevor stole a pass, drive down and dunked ferociously.

Then I’m looking at the TV, and they’re showing the play again. Hmm? Ok.

And then a little while later, again. What??

I’m like - “why do they keep re-showing this replay?

But he’d just done the same thing, 3 times in a row.
It was 3 different plays, all with the same ending. :cool:

Joe will likely never get 3 steals like that.
He will definitely never finish 3 breakaways with monster slams.
Yeah. He couldn't do much off the dribble in the half court, but his dunks in the open floor were sweet. I wish we would've had some inside presence and/or slashing distributing point guard when he was here so he didn't have to be in constant movement for 40 minutes. Had he been able to spot up and take kick outs, I think he would've been a more consistent shooter.
 

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