Jordan Tucker to transfer to Butler

[SUFan44]

Actually, if he were to transfer mid-semester to Syracuse he would be eligible to play as a redshirt sophomore in the second semester of the 2019-20 season.

A long layoff but in the grand scheme of things, he would only lose out on one additional non-conference season and would play 2.5 semesters at Syracuse rather than 3.0 elsewhere (max).

If he’s willing, I’d take that chance.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Not to be argumentative, but tucker could say he wants to a release to cuse, and if thats the response from duke, it would be taken as if duke was blocking cuse. Check out cam johnson’s situation with pitt.

Regarding your second point, im not sure its 100% accurate.

Tucker can request a release to Syracuse all he wants and in this case Duke would probably grant it because they know he has no chance of actually transferring here based on the 2 year rule. Cam Jonson was a 3 year grad transfer which is a whole different situation as there is no interconference penalty for grad transfers but you still have to have the school release you. Gus Edwards would have played at Syracuse this past fall but Miami blocked it and wouldn't budge despite some negative media attention.

As for the second point, it is 100% accurate. A school releasing a player has no barring on the 2 year rule for interconference transfers.

 

[newmexicuse]

Why is everybody still harping on Tucker to SU ???

This is non-sense.

Forget the transfer rules.

This kid has some sort of an issue that is keeping him off the court at Duke.

We do not need this headache.

Our recruiting is on the upswing. We will easily find somebody else of at least similar talents and zero issues. Look at how we are playing. Look at this team's attitude. We need to build upon this, not take on somebody else's problems.

I posted once he was in the word's of Shark Tank's Mr Wonderful that he is "dead to me now."

Why is he not dead to this entire forum ?

I would not wish bad upon him or anybody else, but IF he can get his act together let it be elsewhere.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Actually, if he were to transfer mid-semester to Syracuse he would be eligible to play as a redshirt sophomore in the second semester of the 2019-20 season.

A long layoff but in the grand scheme of things, he would only lose out on one additional non-conference season and would play 2.5 semesters at Syracuse rather than 3.0 elsewhere (max).

If he’s willing, I’d take that chance.

It's a nice thought but he wanted to transfer after sitting out much of first two months of the season, hes not going to transfer to a school to sit for what is essentially 23 months until he is eligible again.

 

[Gotothehole]

Im not at all advocating taking Tucker, however we did take Dukes sloppy seconds with Mike G who we recruited out of HS. That worked out pretty well for us.

This kid an has major red flags.. Lets pass

 

[Cusefan0307]

We are after better forwards anyway. I'd rather try to get Guerrier to come here than waste our time with Tucker for 2020.

 

[rrlbees]

no thanks.

 

[jgeorge322]

Tucker can request a release to Syracuse all he wants and in this case Duke would probably grant it because they know he has no chance of actually transferring here based on the 2 year rule. Cam Jonson was a 3 year grad transfer which is a whole different situation as there is no interconference penalty for grad transfers but you still have to have the school release you. Gus Edwards would have played at Syracuse this past fall but Miami blocked it and wouldn't budge despite some negative media attention.

As for the second point, it is 100% accurate. A school releasing a player has no barring on the 2 year rule for interconference transfers.

Its actually intraconference. But i see your point. The cam johnson reference was about the bad publicity.

Another barrier is i think he has to pay his own way while sitting out, although i think his family is well to do.

I would also like to add miami blocked gus because cuse was on the schedule. And i think duke would come off even worse

 

[jgeorge322]

Tucker can request a release to Syracuse all he wants and in this case Duke would probably grant it because they know he has no chance of actually transferring here based on the 2 year rule. Cam Jonson was a 3 year grad transfer which is a whole different situation as there is no interconference penalty for grad transfers but you still have to have the school release you. Gus Edwards would have played at Syracuse this past fall but Miami blocked it and wouldn't budge despite some negative media attention.

As for the second point, it is 100% accurate. A school releasing a player has no barring on the 2 year rule for interconference transfers.

Heres a link to the acc bylaws. It is older and ill try to find an updated one.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/bc/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/2012_13_ACC.pdf

Check out page 28, section vi-2. Ive heard the two year requirement before but im still not sold thats its true. What is your source?

 

[GooseMutt]

Hang on. I’ll get Georgia Techs number for him

 

[JeremyCuse]

Its actually intraconference. But i see your point. The cam johnson reference was about the bad publicity.

Another barrier is i think he has to pay his own way while sitting out, although i think his family is well to do.

I would also like to add miami blocked gus because cuse was on the schedule. And i think duke would come off even worse

Your correct intraconference, meant to change it, good catch.

The bad publicity thing is hit or miss. Miami didn't catch all that much flack to be honest and as you mentioned SU was on Miami's schedule as we would be for Duke as well. Again though the whole thing is moot there isn't any interest on either side based on the 2 year issue.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Heres a link to the acc bylaws. It is older and ill try to find an updated one.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/bc/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/2012_13_ACC.pdf

Check out page 28, section vi-2. Ive heard the two year requirement before but im still not sold thats its true. What is your source?

Its right in there:


Section VI-2. Intra-Conference Transfer Rule.

A student-athlete who transfers directly to an ACC institution from another ACC institution and who was recruited by the institution from which they are transferring, for whom the athletics department interceded in the admissions process, or who received any athletically related financial aid during the academic year immediately prior to the transfer is required to complete one (1) academic year (two full semesters or three full
quarters) of residency at the certifying ACC institution before being eligible to compete for or to receive athletically related financial aid from the certifying institution. Such an academic year of residency shall count as one of the student-athlete’s four (4) permissible seasons of competition permitted under NCAA legislation.

So essentially he would have to be at SU for a year and pay his own way and then sit out another year under the NCAA transfer rule on scholarship redshirting.

 

[orange79]

Its right in there:


Section VI-2. Intra-Conference Transfer Rule.

A student-athlete who transfers directly to an ACC institution from another ACC institution and who was recruited by the institution from which they are transferring, for whom the athletics department interceded in the admissions process, or who received any athletically related financial aid during the academic year immediately prior to the transfer is required to complete one (1) academic year (two full semesters or three full
quarters) of residency at the certifying ACC institution before being eligible to compete for or to receive athletically related financial aid from the certifying institution. Such an academic year of residency shall count as one of the student-athlete’s four (4) permissible seasons of competition permitted under NCAA legislation.

So essentially he would have to be at SU for a year and pay his own way and then sit out another year under the NCAA transfer rule on scholarship redshirting.

Unless I am reading that incorrectly, he has to sit one year (with no athletic scholarship). And that one year counts toward his 4 years of eligibility. I don't see anything there that says he has to sit out 2 years. They way I read it, the 'residency' year is the year he sits out without a scholarship. The penalty is that it counts as a year on his eligibility clock.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Unless I am reading that incorrectly, he has to sit one year (with no athletic scholarship). And that one year counts toward his 4 years of eligibility. I don't see anything there that says he has to sit out 2 years. They way I read it, the 'residency' year is the year he sits out without a scholarship. The penalty is that it counts as a year on his eligibility clock.

Correct for transferring to another ACC school, that one year does not count toward the required year the NCAA mandates a transfer sit out, thats where the 2 years come from.

 

[jgeorge322]

Correct for transferring to another ACC school, that one year does not count toward the required year the NCAA mandates a transfer sit out, thats where the 2 years come from.

it doesn't say that though. that's my issue. it seems odd the acc can dictate when the ncaa clock starts. further the "...before being eligible to compete for or to receive athletically related financial aid from the certifying institution..." part would seem to contradict what you say because the student athlete would not be eligible to compete, if he/she still had to sit out the ncaa "penalty".

heres another source that does mention two years but its from 2006 and isn't anything official/does not mention the bylaw. further, it indicates a mutual release (which I am guessing would be from the duke in this scenario) could waive the two year "penalty".

http://graphics.fansonly.com/confs/pac10/compl/ccaca/surveys/ictransfers.pdf

 

[JeremyCuse]

it doesn't say that though. that's my issue. it seems odd the acc can dictate when the ncaa clock starts.

heres another source that does mention two years but its from 2006 and isn't anything official/does not mention the bylaw. further, it indicates a mutual release (which I am guessing would be from the duke in this scenario) could waive the two year "penalty".

http://graphics.fansonly.com/confs/pac10/compl/ccaca/surveys/ictransfers.pdf

It doesn't have to say it, the NCAA rule is completely seperate from the ACC transfer rule. Each conference is different, the B10 doesn't have any restrictions and I believe one conference doesn't allow intraconference transfers at all. The rule is essentially in place to stop intraconference transfers from the two major sports from happening save for grad transfers.

As far as I know the ACC transfer rule is not waived by a school granting a release and remains in place. I think that is correct as I can't recall the last time a major fball or bball player transferred from one ACC school to another that wasn't a grad transfer.

 

[kjb120]

This kid an has major red flags.. Lets pass

As I said im not advocating letting him come here, but more to the fact that we have taken sloppy seconds before.

 

[orange79]

Unless I am reading that incorrectly, he has to sit one year (with no athletic scholarship). And that one year counts toward his 4 years of eligibility. I don't see anything there that says he has to sit out 2 years. They way I read it, the 'residency' year is the year he sits out without a scholarship. The penalty is that it counts as a year on his eligibility clock.

Correct for transferring to another ACC school, that one year does not count toward the required year the NCAA mandates a transfer sit out, thats where the 2 years come from.

it doesn't say that though. that's my issue. it seems odd the acc can dictate when the ncaa clock starts. further the "...before being eligible to compete for or to receive athletically related financial aid from the certifying institution..." part would seem to contradict what you say because the student athlete would not be eligible to compete, if he/she still had to sit out the ncaa "penalty".

heres another source that does mention two years but its from 2006 and isn't anything official/does not mention the bylaw. further, it indicates a mutual release (which I am guessing would be from the duke in this scenario) could waive the two year "penalty".

http://graphics.fansonly.com/confs/pac10/compl/ccaca/surveys/ictransfers.pdf

It doesn't have to say it, the NCAA rule is completely seperate from the ACC transfer rule. Each conference is different, the B10 doesn't have any restrictions and I believe one conference doesn't allow intraconference transfers at all. The rule is essentially in place to stop intraconference transfers from the two major sports from happening save for grad transfers.

As far as I know the ACC transfer rule is not waived by a school granting a release and remains in place. I think that is correct as I can't recall the last time a major fball or bball player transferred from one ACC school to another that wasn't a grad transfer.

So, here's an update. I contacted The ACC (via www.theacc.com) and asked this question. Below is the conversation (including when I asked for clarification). Take it with a grain of salt as it may have been a freshman from NC St answering mail that day, but according to this, the NCAA and ACC residency years can be served concurrently. The penalty is that the transfer has to pay his/her own way during that year.

o79:
Can you please clarify for me the intraconference transfer rule? I know the ACC requires a year of residency at the new school for intraconference transfers, with no athletic scholarship. My question is, is that in addition to the NCAA-mandated year that the transfer must sit out? Or is that concurrent with the NCAA year the transfer must sit out? Thank you!

ACC:
Below you'll find the mandates on intra-conference transfers:

The intra-conference transfer rule applies to an ACC student-athlete in any sport who was recruited or who was on athletic scholarship during the academic year immediately preceding their transfer. If they transfer from one ACC school directly to another ACC school, they must serve a year in residence. Meaning they are not eligible for competition during their first two full semesters at the 2nd ACC school. In addition, this year should count as one of their four seasons of competition. The ACC’s rule does not limit a student’s ability to practice and receive athletics aid at the 2nd ACC school. An exception exists for graduate students transferring within the league.

Student’s serving a year in residence per NCAA legislation may concurrently serve a year in residence based on ACC rules. Current NCAA transfer restrictions are sport specific and may apply differently to sports other than baseball, football, men’s and women’s basketball.

We hope this helped! Thank you for your support of the Atlantic Coast Conference and its member institutions.

The Atlantic Coast Conference

theacc.com

o79:
Thank you, ACC!

I was wondering specifically for football and men's and women's basketball. For those sports, an intraconference transfer could serve their one-year NCAA residency concurrently with their one-year ACC residency, permitted that they did not receive an athletic scholarship, is that correct? Or would an intraconference transfer in these sports have to sit two years to fulfill ACC and NCAA residencies?

ACC:
Correct – In football, men’s and women’s basketball, an intra-conference transfer student may use the same academic year (two semesters) to serve both residency requirements. The ACC intra-conference transfer rule does not limit a student’s ability to receive athletics aid or practice while serving a year in residence.

Thank you for your support!

 

[JeremyCuse]

So, here's an update. I contacted The ACC (via www.theacc.com) and asked this question. Below is the conversation (including when I asked for clarification). Take it with a grain of salt as it may have been a freshman from NC St answering mail that day, but according to this, the NCAA and ACC residency years can be served concurrently. The penalty is that the transfer has to pay his/her own way during that year.

o79:
Can you please clarify for me the intraconference transfer rule? I know the ACC requires a year of residency at the new school for intraconference transfers, with no athletic scholarship. My question is, is that in addition to the NCAA-mandated year that the transfer must sit out? Or is that concurrent with the NCAA year the transfer must sit out? Thank you!

ACC:
Below you'll find the mandates on intra-conference transfers:

The intra-conference transfer rule applies to an ACC student-athlete in any sport who was recruited or who was on athletic scholarship during the academic year immediately preceding their transfer. If they transfer from one ACC school directly to another ACC school, they must serve a year in residence. Meaning they are not eligible for competition during their first two full semesters at the 2nd ACC school. In addition, this year should count as one of their four seasons of competition. The ACC’s rule does not limit a student’s ability to practice and receive athletics aid at the 2nd ACC school. An exception exists for graduate students transferring within the league.

Student’s serving a year in residence per NCAA legislation may concurrently serve a year in residence based on ACC rules. Current NCAA transfer restrictions are sport specific and may apply differently to sports other than baseball, football, men’s and women’s basketball.

We hope this helped! Thank you for your support of the Atlantic Coast Conference and its member institutions.

The Atlantic Coast Conference

theacc.com

o79:
Thank you, ACC!

I was wondering specifically for football and men's and women's basketball. For those sports, an intraconference transfer could serve their one-year NCAA residency concurrently with their one-year ACC residency, permitted that they did not receive an athletic scholarship, is that correct? Or would an intraconference transfer in these sports have to sit two years to fulfill ACC and NCAA residencies?

ACC:
Correct – In football, men’s and women’s basketball, an intra-conference transfer student may use the same academic year (two semesters) to serve both residency requirements. The ACC intra-conference transfer rule does not limit a student’s ability to receive athletics aid or practice while serving a year in residence.

Thank you for your support!

Awesome that you went out and did this. Like you said its unclear if this person knows for sure but at least that is some clarification directly from the ACC.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Next question:

If he signed an NLI, isn't he required to stay at Duke for a full academic year before he can transfer?

The NLI is a binding agreement between a prospective student-athlete and an NLI member institution.

• A prospective student-athlete agrees to attend the institution full-time for one academic year (two semesters or three quarters).
• The institution agrees to provide athletics financial aid for one academic year (two semesters or three quarters).

Or can Coach K be a nice guy and release him early?

 

[orangecuse]

Winning is what ultimately matters. I remember reading back in the spring in these parts how Tucker was an excellent 3 point shooter, something this team desperately needs. If he is indeed a 3 point marksman, I'd take him in a heartbeat if it was actually viable. Too bad he chose Duke vs. SU, as who knows where our pathetic offense would be then. I don't know what his alleged "issues" are, or if they're anything of substance, or just pure speculation. Somehow Frank is still on this team when several believed to be acclaimed posters here said with absolute certainty he was gone.

 

[Trueblue25]

Hah i’d absolutely take him

 

[jgeorge322]

Awesome that you went out and did this. Like you said its unclear if this person knows for sure but at least that is some clarification directly from the ACC.

I accept your apology. Never hurts to read the actual rules...

 

[JeremyCuse]

I accept your apology. Never hurts to read the actual rules...

I read the rule, as Orange79 noted without knowing who actually is answering the response has to be taken with a grain of salt. Again show me the intraconference transfer in either mens bball or fball over the last 5+ years who isn't/wasn't a grad transfer.

 

[jgeorge322]

I read the rule, as Orange79 noted without knowing who actually is answering the response has to be taken with a grain of salt. Again show me the intraconference transfer in either mens bball or fball over the last 5+ years who isn't/wasn't a grad transfer.

I don't think your "grain of salt" cliché applies when you combine the response from the ACC with the clear plain language of the rule.

am I going out on a limb by guessing you do not have a legal education?