Class of 2019 Josh Zawada (NC / Hill Acad) Flipped to Michigan

[illestcuse]

I wish ya'll could see the steam coming out of my ears right now...

 

[ivorytower]

No, but there’s a lot of other money out there for students. When I went there, as a non-athlete, I received all kinds of grants and academic scholarships. My family was very middle class in terms of income. How can the school not find non-scholarship money for these kids?

Syracuse does where able but hard to turn down Michigan if full ride (though I kinda question that given 50 players over there ) May be several factors --monies , Michigan highly ranked academic standing and perhaps mapping out playing opportunity. We have 3 sophs starting at mid , a couple of highly ranked 18's in wait and then Lewandowski in 2019.

Regardless this is bothersome

 

[CuseNHouse]

Wow. A deep run is critical this year to stop the bleeding and draw upstream future talent or flips this way

 

[JeremyCuse]

No, but there’s a lot of other money out there for students. When I went there, as a non-athlete, I received all kinds of grants and academic scholarships. My family was very middle class in terms of income. How can the school not find non-scholarship money for these kids?

They can find some but they can't find more then they would for a normal student or they are in violation of the NCAA and could be subject to sanctions. This case is a bit odd as Zawada is at the Hill academy I believe not exactly a "cheap" school. That being said its hard to argue with a full scholarship versus whatever SU was offering probably half as Olax noted. A long shot but maybe SU can come up with more $$ and try and flip him back. Either way this is a bad development for sure.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Wow. A deep run is critical this year to stop the bleeding and draw upstream future talent or flips this way

Couldn't agree more, this really hurts for the 2019 class, the time to sign NLI's is nearly upon us, that was a very late flip. Not sure we can replace him at this point. Best option maybe a transfer if one is out there. The good news is there is a lot of young talent on the team so its not an immediate issue. The bad news is this will really rear its head in 2021 and 2022 if we don't make some moves fast.

 

[Whitey23]

Wow, really liked this kid.

 

[PhatOrange]

That's gonna hurt

 

[Powellfan]

What a mess ... for some reason, this one really stings. I thought Zawada looked like the complete package. Thanks to Oranglax for the insight, the backstory helps a bit. It might be a bit unfair, but seems like Zawada was the type of recruit to garner a big piece of the scholarship puzzle. But having no idea how these things are doled out, or who gets what %, it's really hard to find fault. Guess it just comes down to bad timing. Does anyone know how many players at SU have gotten full rides? You hear rumors about who gets what, but as a fan it's hard to know who to trust in these matters. When do recruits find out how much $ they will receive? The Zawada of two years wasn't garnering as much attention as the one who just flipped to Michigan.

Orangelax, any insight into the OTHER three players who decommitted? Less concerned with Blake, but still seems something is rotten when a program losses their top 3 commits for one class.

 

[JeremyCuse]

What a mess ... for some reason, this one really stings. I thought Zawada looked like the complete package. Thanks to Oranglax for the insight, the backstory helps a bit. It might be a bit unfair, but seems like Zawada was the type of recruit to garner a big piece of the scholarship puzzle. But having no idea how these things are doled out, or who gets what %, it's really hard to find fault. Guess it just comes down to bad timing. Does anyone know how many players at SU have gotten full rides? You hear rumors about who gets what, but as a fan it's hard to know who to trust in these matters. When do recruits find out how much $ they will receive? The Zawada of two years wasn't garnering as much attention as the one who just flipped to Michigan.

Orangelax, any insight into the OTHER three players who decommitted? Less concerned with Blake, but still seems something is rotten when a program losses their top 3 commits for one class.

I know some guys have gotten a pretty good chunk (Mikey P was on a free ride I believe) but most just get a %, very few are getting a free ride unless their a NA who is their under the Hope Promise scholarship. The 12.6 scholie limit is hurting SU big time. Look for them and other schools like Duke Michigan etc to push for an increase with the NCAA.

 

[laxsummit]

Problem with early decisions, families and kids keep shopping and several teams now actively poaching. Frowned upon in the past but becoming an accepted practice . UVA has few commits beyond 19 class n you can certain that they are open for business. Time for Cuse to fight fire with fire and begin doing the same aggressively..Committments now mean little up to the NLI. Soon colleges wont feel bound to honor their end either. "Committment" should be relabeled " pending" .

 

[sholokov2]

Problem with early decisions, families and kids keep shopping and several teams now actively poaching. Frowned upon in the past but becoming an accepted practice . UVA has few commits beyond 19 class n you can certain that they are open for business. Time for Cuse to fight fire with fire and begin doing the same aggressively..Committments now mean little up to the NLI. Soon colleges wont feel bound to honor their end either. "Committment" should be relabeled " pending" .

Let's think about the whole idea of "commitment" including the purpose of listing them in various recruiting sites. Seems to me "commitment" means I might consider SU as a backup if I cannot find something better. If I were SU, I would no longer participate in the published listings. I would also explore with the recruit the level of certainty he and his parents are investing. I would ask as part of the agreement between recruit and SU that this level be an important topic of discussion in subsequent conversations. And if the recruit is considering backing out he inform SU coaches of his indecision as soon as possible. If family and recruit are not willing to engage in a good faith relationship, then I think SU should end its commitment to the recruit. I wonder what the initial conversations between coach and recruit are like. Do the coaches have an extensive agenda for conversations? I have the impression that the kid who wants a fall back position from SU might give himself away in even a perfunctory initial contact. I guess my point is that SU's approach to recruiting may require adjustments.

 

[laxsummit]

Agree. I'm sure our older staff is just as frustrated as we are. Norms have changed and certain adjustments to dialogue must be had for best retention of recruits and even current players. Better to be discerning and through about sincerity and blunt about expectations in talks than revert to overstocking which brings it's own set of problems..
Fault here lies primarily with the stupid culture of early recruiting. Recent changes to recruiting rules will shorten timeframes and older kids will hopefully be more certain with decisions but prevailing culture still reeks as sport grows. Many families will still search for best situations with the proverbial bird in hand with young vultures willing to poach. Know the client, know the competition, gauge the 'commitment'.

 

[CuSeLaX]

I don't understand why lacrosse and all sports at the D1 level can't offer full rides to their players. Most of these schools football or basketball teams revenue can easily cover the actual exspense for each player to have a full ride. I knew a kid who went the NAIA route and the school essentially threw random scholarships at him till he was on a full ride. Syracuse needs to get as creative as possible. Make an academic scholarship for student athletes, on top of the regular scholarships. Or go back door and have allummi sponser scholarships for the lacrosse players. I don't know I'm not educated in this but I'm sure they can pay someone to figure out how. They need to make it so money isn't an issue when recruiting a kid. If Michigan, a better academic school, can offer him a full ride we could too. It's all about making scholarships ( non lacrosse related) available to these kids. It's ridiculous that the team with the most NCAA championships hasn't found a way around the NCAA scholarship limits.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

It's ridiculous that the team with the most NCAA championships hasn't found a way around the NCAA scholarship limits.

Been there.
Done that.
Got caught.

That's why there's a missing trophy.

 

[laxsummit]

I don't understand why lacrosse and all sports at the D1 level can't offer full rides to their players. Most of these schools football or basketball teams revenue can easily cover the actual exspense for each player to have a full ride. I knew a kid who went the NAIA route and the school essentially threw random scholarships at him till he was on a full ride. Syracuse needs to get as creative as possible. Make an academic scholarship for student athletes, on top of the regular scholarships. Or go back door and have allummi sponser scholarships for the lacrosse players. I don't know I'm not educated in this but I'm sure they can pay someone to figure out how. They need to make it so money isn't an issue when recruiting a kid. If Michigan, a better academic school, can offer him a full ride we could too. It's all about making scholarships ( non lacrosse related) available to these kids. It's ridiculous that the team with the most NCAA championships hasn't found a way around the NCAA scholarship limits.

Not buying full ride via 1/12.6. If that were the case then grateful he choose elsewhere because those $ need to spread amongst many good players and while he may be a good prospect he's just one of many.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Is there some formula for evening out the value of tuition? It strikes me that Syracuse (and other private schools of its ilk) are hurt by not being an inexpensive option for in-state talent (which there is plenty of in NY). As an extreme example, UNC's tuition is under $10k in-state. They could have offered this kid a quarter scholly and he would have been on the hook for just over $7k per year for tuition. SU could offer a 3/4 school and he'd still owe over $12k a year for tuition. That's unfair. Pretty much all of the Ivy's offer full room and board for anyone whose parents are not upper middle class.

I've just started following lacrosse (my last foray on this forum didnt go too well ), so forgive my ignorance. I was a recruited athlete for baseball though, so I am familiar with the partial scholarship game, but that was about 20 years ago now, before tuition really started to skyrocket.

Another question/thought - The stereotypical lacrosse player from player back when the SU dynasty was built had yuppie parents and a preppy life. The ability to pay tuition probably wasnt a problem. Now that lacrosse has caught on with the masses, the most talented players come from a broader ranger of socio-economic backgrounds with differing abilities to pay for school. Does that hurt our recruiting or is it covered by the breadth of other financial opportunities afforded these kids?

 

[ohmilax34]

Let's think about the whole idea of "commitment" including the purpose of listing them in various recruiting sites. Seems to me "commitment" means I might consider SU as a backup if I cannot find something better. If I were SU, I would no longer participate in the published listings. I would also explore with the recruit the level of certainty he and his parents are investing. I would ask as part of the agreement between recruit and SU that this level be an important topic of discussion in subsequent conversations. And if the recruit is considering backing out he inform SU coaches of his indecision as soon as possible. If family and recruit are not willing to engage in a good faith relationship, then I think SU should end its commitment to the recruit. I wonder what the initial conversations between coach and recruit are like. Do the coaches have an extensive agenda for conversations? I have the impression that the kid who wants a fall back position from SU might give himself away in even a perfunctory initial contact. I guess my point is that SU's approach to recruiting may require adjustments.

This is great stuff Sholo. I've been thinking as well, if I were recruiting for SU, how would I change my strategy given the large number of decommitments they are experiencing. However, with the recruiting changes (no contact until Sep 1 of junior year), I think there are less changes needed than we initially might think. Commitments from juniors SHOULD be more solid because it's closer to the date when they will actually make their final decision of where they will attend college.

Also, Sholo, you and I have discussed what the SU coaches are looking for in recruits, and I have made the point that it seems like they're looking for someone who REALLY wants to attend Syracuse. Another way to say it is someone with a Syracuse connection, like Brendan Curry, Nate Solomon, Owen Seebold or Griffin Cook. This will hopefully continue to be a way for the coaches to get committed and talented players.

I also wonder if the geography of recruits changes a little bit. Maybe SU focuses a little more on their backyard, and less on places where kids don't grow up watching SU sports. I'm from the midwest and live there now, so I hope SU keeps looking for good players from the midwest. The emphasis has been on athletes lately, like Oladunmoye, Dieball, Nick Martin.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Is there some formula for evening out the value of tuition? It strikes me that Syracuse (and other private schools of its ilk) are hurt by not being an inexpensive option for in-state talent (which there is plenty of in NY). As an extreme example, UNC's tuition is under $10k in-state. They could have offered this kid a quarter scholly and he would have been on the hook for just over $7k per year for tuition. SU could offer a 3/4 school and he'd still owe over $12k a year for tuition. That's unfair. Pretty much all of the Ivy's offer full room and board for anyone whose parents are not upper middle class.

I've just started following lacrosse (my last foray on this forum didnt go too well ), so forgive my ignorance. I was a recruited athlete for baseball though, so I am familiar with the partial scholarship game, but that was about 20 years ago now, before tuition really started to skyrocket.

Another question/thought - The stereotypical lacrosse player from player back when the SU dynasty was built had yuppie parents and a preppy life. The ability to pay tuition probably wasnt a problem. Now that lacrosse has caught on with the masses, the most talented players come from a broader ranger of socio-economic backgrounds with differing abilities to pay for school. Does that hurt our recruiting or is it covered by the breadth of other financial opportunities afforded these kids?

I don't believe there is a specific formula, as you noted in your UNC example an instate kid will pay less then an out of state kid. Schools can offer academic aid as well as the partial schollie but nothing above and beyond what a normal student would be entitled to or your in violation of the NCAA guidelines and open to the fun of sanctions..

The cost to attend SU absolutely does effect our ability to recruit. Now is it a huge factor, I don't think so but it is definitely a factor. i know for a fact a kid in last years class decommitted to attend a D2 school because of the costs of attending SU. SU is in a tough spot with only 12.6 schollies a year its impossible to make everyone happy especially with our giant roster. An increase in scholarships available would be huge for SU and something SU and the other private schools should be pushing for. Also we need to try and work with the number the best we can to ensure were giving out as much academic aid as possible to players who we know need the help, Zawada seems like one of those guys.

 

[ohmilax34]

Let's think about the whole idea of "commitment" including the purpose of listing them in various recruiting sites. Seems to me "commitment" means I might consider SU as a backup if I cannot find something better. If I were SU, I would no longer participate in the published listings. I would also explore with the recruit the level of certainty he and his parents are investing. I would ask as part of the agreement between recruit and SU that this level be an important topic of discussion in subsequent conversations. And if the recruit is considering backing out he inform SU coaches of his indecision as soon as possible. If family and recruit are not willing to engage in a good faith relationship, then I think SU should end its commitment to the recruit. I wonder what the initial conversations between coach and recruit are like. Do the coaches have an extensive agenda for conversations? I have the impression that the kid who wants a fall back position from SU might give himself away in even a perfunctory initial contact. I guess my point is that SU's approach to recruiting may require adjustments.

Sholo, another thing that is interesting is SU's huge roster. Compare it to Duke who has a smaller roster. Duke recruiting classes look to me like they have identified exactly who they want to play certain positions for multiple years. They bring in these highly rated recruits and usually ease them in as freshmen and teach them how to play and develop them. You can almost look at their recruiting classes and say, "yep this kid will start at attack for 3 years" and "this kid is a depth player and won't see meaningful minutes for any of his 4 years." Now, Duke plays some weaker teams and gives those depth players some playing time then.

Contrast that with Syracuse. At one point Syracuse had on their roster the following left handed attackmen: Jordan Evans, Logan Wisnauskas, Brad Voigt, Nick Mariano and Stephen Rehfuss. Who would've thought that Rehfuss would be the 3 year starter at attack? SU recruited both Camden Hay and Russ Maher in the 2020 class. They are both lefty attackmen if I'm not mistaken. Part of the Syracuse pitch is probably "if you come here there will be lots of competition for playing time. Everything will be earned." And they probably fill spots with more recruits than they need and there is competition. Do you think they should look into using Duke's strategy, or does a Duke education make Duke's strategy more effective for them and does the type of student athlete Syracuse gets make Syracuse's strategy more effective for them?

 

[sholokov2]

This is great stuff Sholo. I've been thinking as well, if I were recruiting for SU, how would I change my strategy given the large number of decommitments they are experiencing. However, with the recruiting changes (no contact until Sep 1 of junior year), I think there are less changes needed than we initially might think. Commitments from juniors SHOULD be more solid because it's closer to the date when they will actually make their final decision of where they will attend college.

Also, Sholo, you and I have discussed what the SU coaches are looking for in recruits, and I have made the point that it seems like they're looking for someone who REALLY wants to attend Syracuse. Another way to say it is someone with a Syracuse connection, like Brendan Curry, Nate Solomon, Owen Seebold or Griffin Cook. This will hopefully continue to be a way for the coaches to get committed and talented players.

I also wonder if the geography of recruits changes a little bit. Maybe SU focuses a little more on their backyard, and less on places where kids don't grow up watching SU sports. I'm from the midwest and live there now, so I hope SU keeps looking for good players from the midwest. The emphasis has been on athletes lately, like Oladunmoye, Dieball, Nick Martin.

I have always supported kids who wish to choose another school after committing to SU. The past few months have me wondering. Poaching has to be compressed into a shorter time period, hence the four or five losses in the last couple months. This is unusual. SU loses kids every year, but 4 or 5 within a couple months. Uh-uh. Something's rotten in Denmark. Don't worry not a dark conspiracy. One of the questions I would ask during the first interview with kid and parents is: If Harvard calls after you commit to SU, how would you respond? If Pietramala calls after your son commits, and you consider his offer, how long would it take you to call us at SU. We at SU are offering to commit ourselves to you with a half scholarship to a fine private school, which would be good under any circumstances including a career ending injury. We would hold the spot for you whether other kids we like later call us or not. The commitment would last for four or five years, no less. Therefore we ask of you that you act in good faith in return, by informing us promptly when you are even considering another school. You get my drift. I'd love to be a fly on the wall or be able to ask Desko how he goes about recruiting.

 

[Subob1]

Been there.
Done that.
Got caught.

That's why there's a missing trophy.

Huh, I thought it was an impermissible benefit, a loan from the Coach to one of the players wife, maybe to buy a car? Or, Something like that.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Huh, I thought it was an impermissible benefit, a loan from the Coach to one of the players wife, maybe to buy a car? Or, Something like that.

That was only part of it.

 

[sholokov2]

Sholo, another thing that is interesting is SU's huge roster. Compare it to Duke who has a smaller roster. Duke recruiting classes look to me like they have identified exactly who they want to play certain positions for multiple years. They bring in these highly rated recruits and usually ease them in as freshmen and teach them how to play and develop them. You can almost look at their recruiting classes and say, "yep this kid will start at attack for 3 years" and "this kid is a depth player and won't see meaningful minutes for any of his 4 years." Now, Duke plays some weaker teams and gives those depth players some playing time then.

Contrast that with Syracuse. At one point Syracuse had on their roster the following left handed attackmen: Jordan Evans, Logan Wisnauskas, Brad Voigt, Nick Mariano and Stephen Rehfuss. Who would've thought that Rehfuss would be the 3 year starter at attack? SU recruited both Camden Hay and Russ Maher in the 2020 class. They are both lefty attackmen if I'm not mistaken. Part of the Syracuse pitch is probably "if you come here there will be lots of competition for playing time. Everything will be earned." And they probably fill spots with more recruits than they need and there is competition. Do you think they should look into using Duke's strategy, or does a Duke education make Duke's strategy more effective for them and does the type of student athlete Syracuse gets make Syracuse's strategy more effective for them?

Good questions. You raise the issue of recruiting criteria. I'm not sure that Duke and SU use significantly different criteria. They may. I wish a former coach would write a book about his approaches to recruiting including: detailed descriptions of the issues discussed with kids' families, structure of communications with recruits, criteria for choices of kids to go after, etc. Your questions only serve to remind me of how little I know about this stuff. If I were completely without character, I would wait till the other coaches recruited the kids and bend all my efforts to poaching the ones I wanted. Ask them what the other coaches have offered them and offer them more. Right now I'd like to take some of the poachers to the wood shed.

 

[ohmilax34]

Good questions. You raise the issue of recruiting criteria. I'm not sure that Duke and SU use significantly different criteria. They may. I wish a former coach would write a book about his approaches to recruiting including: detailed descriptions of the issues discussed with kids' families, structure of communications with recruits, criteria for choices of kids to go after, etc. Your questions only serve to remind me of how little I know about this stuff. If I were completely without character, I would wait till the other coaches recruited the kids and bend all my efforts to poaching the ones I wanted. Ask them what the other coaches have offered them and offer them more. Right now I'd like to take some of the poachers to the wood shed.

I don't think Duke and SU use different criteria. I think they build recruiting classes differently. I think Duke's best recruits know they will play if they put in the work and their lesser recruits are fighting for scraps of playing time, but they're okay with that because they weren't highly recruited HS players and a Duke degree makes it worth it. I don't think SU's recruits come in with that kind of understanding.

 

[Powellfan]

I agree with Ohmilax - my feelings on this are largely that Syracuse wants guys who want to play for Syracuse. A lot of times that means the player has a connection to SU. For a long time that strategy was rock solid as a lot of great players wanted to play for Syracuse. Now that there are more teams, there are more options. It's probably a lot harder to spot talent as well, Syracuse literally has players from Maine and Oregon and California. The Mike Powell years were dominated by players from the northeast.

The game has changed and I think staff has struggled to make adjustments. In regards to the the early recruiting phenomenon, they were in the middle - definitely didn't start the trend, but got in eventually. Some teams made concerted efforts to stay out of it and now are poaching from others. Kind of interesting to think about the ethics of the practice - better to recruit 8th graders, or poach a player who has been committed to a school for 2+ years? Both seem wrong, hopefully the new regulations fix those problems.

Would be interesting to look back on all this in a few years. It seems like there have been A LOT of players who either transferred or decommitted from Syracuse in the last 2-3 years. Gaudet and Wisnauskas obviously sting a lot. Time has passed but highly ranked incoming freshmen like Chase Scanlan (Loyola) and Griffin Galinas (Michigan), also decommitted. On the flip side, we've had some players leave that really haven't come back to haunt us - I thought Devin Shewell would be a huge loss but I don't think he made much of an impact at all for Loyola last year. Likewise for Gail Thorpe at Ohio State.