Judah 33rd in BR draft update

[XC Cuse]

Adam will be moving out of these sentences and a new Adam will be moving in

Sandler! He did go to SU in Big Daddy. That's my dream at least

 

[qdawgg]

It certainly means a lot to the schools, because that's where much of the budget for the AD's office and all these non-revenue sports is coming from.

Well that part is an obvious but not what the specific discussion was about.

 

[MikeSU02]

These two Judah threads are wild.

Disrespectful that he took of Cuse content on his social media? This is crazy to me. I don't mean to knock anyone's opinion, but seriously? This ain't it. He doesn't need to adorn his IG with Cuse pics for the program.

Knocking the G-League for his "brand". I get the point of this, but the real factor in what will matter for Judah is how good he is, period. Will he have a better short term publicity bump from playing at Cuse... probably? ESPN games, ACC, etc. Sure. But if he were to go to the G League, he would get top line training. As Donovan Mitchell once said, and I'm paraphrasing ---- It's a lot easier to improve when you don't have five classes a semester.

If Judah gets a first round promise, he should probably go.
If Judah shoots up the rankings while being evaluated, he should probably go.
If he has no guarantee and may slip down in the second round without any sure backstop, he should come back.

Next year's draft is not nearly as good up top. It does have more lead guards / combo guards. I think if Judah comes back, he'll dust most of those other guards and won't have the natural bump down from Wemby, Scoot and Amen. I think he can get into the back end of the lottery next year.

 

[tptcuse]

I selfishly hope Judah comes back, but the G league is putting more and more players in the NBA. I guess we'll see what the NBA scouts say.
The NBA is back, and almost half its players played in the G League

 

[TexanMark]

The issue is there’s a world in which he does all that and still doesn’t improve his draft stock or even sees it decline.

Just my relatively educated guess here, but If he’s drafted in the top 40, he’ll likely be paid more in the NBA than what we’ll realistically offer. The later in the top 40 it gets, the more likely it is that we can make the money close enough that he decides it’s worth the risk to return to school.

That’s why this period where he’s getting feedback from teams will be so important. I think most teams and most in the media expected him to spend two years here so it’s possible the draft stock that we’ve been reading about in 2023 drafts is not accurate and he was already basically on the fringe of making more money where he was projected to be drafted than he’d make here.

You gotta believe in yourself and figure you'll improve.

The kid is what? 19? Huge difference between 19 and 22.

NBA guards will manhandle him...he needs to mature some.

 

[NYCCuse826]

You have to think of the Gleague more like the 40 man roster in MLB.

You'd be able to think of it like that if the NBA took the G League more seriously. It's still a mess of a minor league.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You'd be able to think of it like that if the NBA took the G League more seriously. It's still a mess of a minor league.

What are you basing that on? It's not perfect but it's come a loooooooong way from what it was.

 

[NYCCuse826]

What are you basing that on? It's not perfect but it's come a loooooooong way from what it was.

The fact that it's not treated like a true minor league affiliate. I still think it's a mess off of the fact that players don't sign contracts with teams but the league itself so they can be poached by another organization while playing for the Delaware Blue Hens for example.

 

[orangecuse]

These two Judah threads are wild.

Disrespectful that he took of Cuse content on his social media? This is crazy to me. I don't mean to knock anyone's opinion, but seriously? This ain't it. He doesn't need to adorn his IG with Cuse pics for the program.

Knocking the G-League for his "brand". I get the point of this, but the real factor in what will matter for Judah is how good he is, period. Will he have a better short term publicity bump from playing at Cuse... probably? ESPN games, ACC, etc. Sure. But if he were to go to the G League, he would get top line training. As Donovan Mitchell once said, and I'm paraphrasing ---- It's a lot easier to improve when you don't have five classes a semester.

If Judah gets a first round promise, he should probably go.
If Judah shoots up the rankings while being evaluated, he should probably go.
If he has no guarantee and may slip down in the second round without any sure backstop, he should come back.

Next year's draft is not nearly as good up top. It does have more lead guards / combo guards. I think if Judah comes back, he'll dust most of those other guards and won't have the natural bump down from Wemby, Scoot and Amen. I think he can get into the back end of the lottery next year.

I understand your general point, but with all due respect, Donovan Mitchell never spent a second in the G league. He scored 41 points in an NBA game just a few weeks into his rookie season, won the NBA slam dunk contest as well later that year. He is a completely different level athlete than Judah, an amazing combination of athleticism power and strength, not to mention his elite ball handling skills and shooting prowess.

Donovan Mitchell was spectacular right out of the gate.

Go Cavs!

 

[Newhouser]

What is better playing in college or the G League experience? Don’t know how the NIL compensation matches up with the G-League salaries, but going to college is an incentive to improve on skills.

Im not Judah but if I had a choice being selected in the 40s and playing in the NBA developmental leagues vice continuing one more year in college, ( would continue in college.

I would choose where I would make the most money. If it was a basketball only choice I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I would go G-League and play against better people and get better coaching.

 

[CLMintz]

I still don't understand the weighting on "individual stats" versus "team performance", but - yes, as a freshman - he was focused on "him", not on "team".

All of his accomplishments came within the framework of the team, a system that was not well suited for him yet he thrived anyway. That’s impressive. Imagine him playing for Alabama, Arkansas or Baylor, or NC State even?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The fact that it's not treated like a true minor league affiliate. I still think it's a mess off of the fact that players don't sign contracts with teams but the league itself so they can be poached by another organization while playing for the Delaware Blue Hens for example.

That's not necessarily a bad thing for the players.

 

[littlereg]

I would choose where I would make the most money. If it was a basketball only choice I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I would go G-League and play against better people and get better coaching.

I think a lot of these choices are a lot more circumstantial than conversations allow. If we’re breaking down one’s decision there’s a lot of factors that would go into it. Are you a five star with large NIL opportunities or are you a low four star with bad grades? Do you come from an affluent family or do you have a kid already, family needs money asap, etc. Obviously different sport, different problems and such but that amateur in the masters that played very well for example, he could’ve been pro by now but stayed at A&M to get his degree because he promised his late dad he would. That’s another factor does an education matter/ did you make promises like his, khabib saying he wouldn’t fight after his dad died, etc.

the arguments about this stuff are always so black and white when there’s sooooo much involved just for the kid.

 

[orangepassion]

I selfishly hope Judah comes back, but the G league is putting more and more players in the NBA. I guess we'll see what the NBA scouts say.
The NBA is back, and almost half its players played in the G League

I think he can get into the NBA either way. I think he'll have a much more enjoyable year at Syracuse. Once you leave school, everything is a business and while the business aspect has creeped more into college sports, it's still your last chance to be a "kid" and enjoy that experience. A lot of former players have said that these years were the best of their life (Remember even Carmelo said he wanted to come back until being pushed out by JB). I don't know Judah personally, but based on his background, I think he would appreciate that. Now if he's going to be a top pick, that's different.

 

[NYCCuse826]

That's not necessarily a bad thing for the players.

But it's bad for an organization that's investing in their team. If someone shows promise, another team can swoop in and poach them despite them not spending the time and money for one's development.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But it's bad for an organization that's investing in their team. If someone shows promise, another team can swoop in and poach them despite them not spending the time and money for one's development.

I mean what you're really talking about is a true roster expansion for NBA teams, and I don't think that's needed, or what the teams desire.

Again, it's not perfect, but the combo of draft picks under contract getting Gleague minutes/guys on 2 way deals/a pool of players basically developing as free agents to teams in need of guys that can fill a roster spot seems to actually be working to some degree. There isn't the same stigma associated with the Gleague there used to be, and teams even use it to get established players a little run when they come off injury.

 

[kuethstheman]

All of his accomplishments came within the framework of the team, a system that was not well suited for him yet he thrived anyway. That’s impressive. Imagine him playing for Alabama, Arkansas or Baylor, or NC State even?

I don't know how he'd do playing for other teams but I agree on him playing within the framework of the team. I never had the feeling he felt he needed to get his points, no matter what.

 

[MikeSU02]

I understand your general point, but with all due respect, Donovan Mitchell never spent a second in the G league. He scored 41 points in an NBA game just a few weeks into his rookie season, won the NBA slam dunk contest as well later that year. He is a completely different level athlete than Judah, an amazing combination of athleticism power and strength, not to mention his elite ball handling skills and shooting prowess.

Donovan Mitchell was spectacular right out of the gate.

Go Cavs!

Ha, sure, I get that, but my point stands - the more you can focus on your craft exclusively, the better it will be, especially with better coaches.

Mitchell will likely end up in the HoF, so his trajectory is going to be different than a Judah or a guy just in a rotation, of course.

Should be a good match up!

 

[Melancer46]

You gotta believe in yourself and figure you'll improve.

The kid is what? 19? Huge difference between 19 and 22.

NBA guards will manhandle him...he needs to mature some.

He’s probably more likely to improve while in the pros, at which point he’ll get to the real big contracts earlier than he would by coming back to syracuse.

Perhaps he’ll come back and jump into the lottery, but otherwise he probably won’t earn all that much more on his rookie deal by returning than he would by staying in the draft (assuming he’s a top 40 pick this year which remains to be seen). And if he’s as confident in improving as he should be, he’ll probably earn more in the long run by leaving.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think we should just re-post everything from Aprils of seasons past and just blank the names out. Every April and May, a ton of college kids leave college for the NBA draft, some even get selected, and most won't make it to or last long in the NBA. Rinse and repeat. It's a meat grinder.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think we should just re-post everything from Aprils of seasons past and just blank the names out. Every April and May, a ton of college kids leave college for the NBA draft, some even get selected, and most won't make it to or last long in the NBA. Rinse and repeat. It's a meat grinder.

Fair point and I'm guilty of repeating the same worries.

Only difference this year is I believe Judah can turn into an All American if he comes back. So it's not just making sure we get seasoned productive vets back... it's bringing back a legit dude.

BTW, I'm close to the magical thinking that we can win Maui with Judah back and then go vying for a 1 seed because I'm dumb.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think we should just re-post everything from Aprils of seasons past and just blank the names out. Every April and May, a ton of college kids leave college for the NBA draft, some even get selected, and most won't make it to or last long in the NBA. Rinse and repeat. It's a meat grinder.

My favorite drum to bang on is that guys washed out of the NBA all the time when nobody left school early.

 

[Fly Rodder]

My favorite drum to bang on is that guys washed out of the NBA all the time when nobody left school early.

Yep, it's just math considering that there are about 450 NBA roster spots depending on the team and season. And if you except the guys in their thirties (~100 players) who are either very very good or were very very good, and thus likely have good contracts or are the best of the best. The pool is limited to the guys aged 19-29 and ten years of drafts, that equals about 750 players competing for 350 spots every season. And next season they get to do it all over again with a new crop of 60-80 players.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yep, it's just math considering that there are about 450 NBA roster spots depending on the team and season. And if you except the guys in their thirties (~100 players) who are either very very good or were very very good, and thus likely have good contract or are the best of the best. The pool is limited to the guys aged 19-29 and ten years of drafts, that equals about 750 players competing for 350 spots every season. And next season they get to do it all over again with a new crop of 60-80 players.

Curious how many international players now in that mix that up the figures too

 

[TexanMark]

My favorite drum to bang on is that guys washed out of the NBA all the time when nobody left school early.

But at least they were 23 or 24 with a degree vs 20 or 21 and no degree.