Judah On GTown's Portal Wishlist?

[Wrinkle]

Judah is a good player, and with a better team around him I think it would have worked out better. I think Judah felt compelled to put the team on his back. 22-23 I think it was the best policy to keep the ball in his hands. When Copeland emerged this season, things changed.

I have no problems whatsoever with how he carried himself on the court, as so many other posters seem to. An unfortunate reality of his game is that the officials could easily control just how impactful he could be in a given contest.

 

[Orangezoo]

Judah is a good player, and with a better team around him I think it would have worked out better. I think Judah felt compelled to put the team on his back. 22-23 I think it was the best policy to keep the ball in his hands. When Copeland emerged this season, things changed.

I have no problems whatsoever with how he carried himself on the court, as so many other posters seem to. An unfortunate reality of his game is that the officials could easily control just how impactful he could be in a given contest.

All too often he put himself in a position where he had to score, draw a foul or make an awkward jump pass to avoid a turnover when the easy play was still there to be made. He missed many opportunities to get buckets for teammates and gambled way too much on defense. His steals were great while also working against team defense when he whiffed. He has a ton of individual talent and is excellent in manipulating his defender but doesn’t see the floor well and often seems to miss the easy pass in favor of going 1v1.

If I’m building a team I want one of JJ or Judah in their current form and have them be my instant offense guy off the bench.. college Lou Williams. Judah needed to improve to being a better defender and a better all around guard. Outside a few games he was mostly the same player- a very talented scorer and relentless driving to the hoop with limitations as a lead guard due to decision making.

We lacked the balance at guard Westry would have brought this year but also it’s fair to say Judah didn’t apply enough of the feedback he got from the combine and we got what he got

 

[grepal]

Thank god NBA front offices don’t think like you.

Evidence: Judah isn’t close to an nba draft pick this year.

Google it. Congrats on being willfully ignorant.

Not being drafted or drafted late in the NBA is no indicator of the type of college player one is. Our all time scorer and a great collegiate player, Lawrence Moten was drafted in the second round. Things did not work out for him in the NBA. There are countless others with similar stories

 

[pwong]

What ever happened to the coon dog?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Second team ACC
8th in total votes. Kid sucks.

No doubt the kid has talent.

On the other hand, college basketball is not played one-on-one.

 

[RF2044]

He was on NBA boards and then he wasn’t. He ain’t going to Duke. People here forgot what an actual baller looks like.

Glad he hogged the ball tho.

Agreed

 

[djcon57]

Not being drafted or drafted late in the NBA is no indicator of the type of college player one is. Our all time scorer and a great collegiate player, Lawrence Moten was drafted in the second round. Things did not work out for him in the NBA. There are countless others with similar stories

You are missing the point. He was drafted and played 111 games for the Grizz.

I don't see how Judah even gets the mins Buddy has got in the NBA at this pt.

 

[grepal]

You are missing the point. He was drafted and played 111 games for the Grizz.

I don't see how Judah even gets the mins Buddy has got in the NBA at this pt.

The point is that many great college players never play or flame out fast in the NBA. Judah is an excellent college player. That being said, as you believe he won't get drafted he has every incentive in the world to grab the biggest bag he can. That. might not work, a la Jesse Edwards, but at least Jesse got a huge payday. Problem for SU today is if we replace him with a steady, pass first point guard do we have the scorers to compete. I don't think we do yet. How much NIL do we need to keep who you want to keep and add the scoring, rebounding and rim protecting we need, and who is paying the freight for all that.

 

[JOC44]

I don't remember Scoop being sort of hated. Judah is interesting in that while he has been exceptionally good and instrumental in many wins, he is so disliked by many. His style isn't likeable, nor his the personality that he projects. Whatever, I'm ready for next up.

Are you kidding? My daughter was about eight and made me a Father's Day card that was a picture of me having a coronary screaming at Scoop through the TV.

 

[djcon57]

The point is that many great college players never play or flame out fast in the NBA. Judah is an excellent college player. That being said, as you believe he won't get drafted he has every incentive in the world to grab the biggest bag he can. That. might not work, a la Jesse Edwards, but at least Jesse got a huge payday. Problem for SU today is if we replace him with a steady, pass first point guard do we have the scorers to compete. I don't think we do yet. How much NIL do we need to keep who you want to keep and add the scoring, rebounding and rim protecting we need, and who is paying the freight for all that.

Yeah, he’s not an excellent college player.

He’s an excellent college scorer. Never played in the tourney.

 

[BigNastyJon]

Are you kidding? My daughter was about eight and made me a Father's Day card that was a picture of me having a coronary screaming at Scoop through the TV.

View attachment 239078

This is incredible

 

[billsin01]

The point is that many great college players never play or flame out fast in the NBA. Judah is an excellent college player. That being said, as you believe he won't get drafted he has every incentive in the world to grab the biggest bag he can. That. might not work, a la Jesse Edwards, but at least Jesse got a huge payday. Problem for SU today is if we replace him with a steady, pass first point guard do we have the scorers to compete. I don't think we do yet. How much NIL do we need to keep who you want to keep and add the scoring, rebounding and rim protecting we need, and who is paying the freight for all that.

The massive point here is the second point you make. Whatever everyone thinks of Judah and whether he’s back or not or in the nba or not, do we really have the ability to answer all the deficiencies no one is talking about in this particular thread?

The answer is hopefully yes but it’s the far more important question than Judah’s legacy.

 

[Cuse1055]

Are you kidding? My daughter was about eight and made me a Father's Day card that was a picture of me having a coronary screaming at Scoop through the TV.

View attachment 239078

“Scoop dressed like a clown” has me rolling lol.

 

[billsin01]

Yeah, he’s not an excellent college player.

He’s an excellent college scorer. Never played in the tourney.

So I think this is fine to say. Again, not sure I agree entirely but I do accept that it could be true.

But two things:

1) Excellent college scorers are exceptionally important, particularly in March. A guy who is unlikely to sniff the NBA knocked out an entire team full of NBA players at Kentucky.

2) Judah bears some responsibility for falling short of the tourney. No question. But if I’m making a list, I’d bet I could point out about 15 things that killed us. Judah’s inconsistent defensive effort, over-dribbling and struggles shooting are on there … but there are many, many more.

 

[atlanticuse]

I don't remember Scoop being sort of hated. Judah is interesting in that while he has been exceptionally good and instrumental in many wins, he is so disliked by many. His style isn't likeable, nor his the personality that he projects. Whatever, I'm ready for next up.

It’s like the dip shoulder shrug and no defense after thinking he was fouled when he was just out of control in the paint or up against trees in the lane.

He’s missed a lot of open guys, but I agree passing to JT probably isn’t optimal.

His long pass to Maliq for a dunk at GT last year was great.

 

[djcon57]

So I think this is fine to say. Again, not sure I agree entirely but I do accept that it could be true.

But two things:

1) Excellent college scorers are exceptionally important, particularly in March. A guy who is unlikely to sniff the NBA knocked out an entire team full of NBA players at Kentucky.

2) Judah bears some responsibility for falling short of the tourney. No question. But if I’m making a list, I’d bet I could point out about 15 things that killed us. Judah’s inconsistent defensive effort, over-dribbling and struggles shooting are on there … but there are many, many more.

The guy who knocked out Kentucky hit 3s.
Extremely efficiently

Judah has done neither.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It’s like the dip shoulder shrug and no defense after thinking he was fouled when he was just out of control in the paint or up against trees in the lane.

He’s missed a lot of open guys, but I agree passing to JT probably isn’t optimal.

His long pass to Maliq for a dunk at GT last year was great.

I was thinking about this when I was just out on my run. Lots of people are clamoring for us to run Bell off of screens like Andy and Triche used to do. One of the most important parts of that play is the pass once the shooter is open. I simply can’t imagine Judah making that pass on time and to the spot where the shooter wants it.

 

[billsin01]

The guy who knocked out Kentucky hit 3s.
Extremely efficiently

Judah has done neither.

True — but he is better than all those future nba guys? I thought nba draft status was the most important thing. It’s what’s been thrown my way 15 times in this thread.

This argument keeps changing. Everyone said he sucked because he dropped down draft boards. Now it’s his 3-point shooting.

You guys don’t like his game. I get it. Makes sense even. But this team without Judah is clawing to get to 10 wins. Who is scoring and how are we scoring if he’s not there. Particularly those first 12 games or so with JJ struggling and McLeod chewing up minutes.

 

[djcon57]

True — but he is better than all those future nba guys? I thought nba draft status was the most important thing. It’s what’s been thrown my way 15 times in this thread.

This argument keeps changing. Everyone said he sucked because he dropped down draft boards. Now it’s his 3-point shooting.

You guys don’t like his game. I get it. Makes sense even. But this team without Judah is clawing to get to 10 wins. Who is scoring and how are we scoring if he’s not there. Particularly those first 12 games or so with JJ struggling and McLeod chewing up minutes.

No he’s not. They were in the tourney.

Nothing has changed, no one said we would have won more games without him. Not one poster.

Here’s a post from a month ago which says exactly how I viewed his game. Nothing changed.

Okay so the Judah play?

I think he was trying to shoot but got caught and ended up "passing". Just an absolutely awful play for a "veteran" point guard with almost 2 years of full playing time. Yes, passing as the avenue of last resort rarely results in something positive.

syracusefan.com

I think what the majority is saying is we won’t miss him and the way he’s plays isn’t best to win in college basketball in 2024. The draft board comments are to show that others feel similarly

For you to slip that “we wouldn’t have won 10 games without Judah” is poor form. Total strawman stuff

 

[IthacaMatt]

I was thinking about this when I was just out on my run. Lots of people are clamoring for us to run Bell off of screens like Andy and Triche used to do. One of the most important parts of that play is the pass once the shooter is open. I simply can’t imagine Judah making that pass on time and to the spot where the shooter wants it.

And I think this is the essence of why many fans don't mind him moving on. He can't be counted on to make the "right play", the smart play, and we saw it over an over and over.

 

[Cheriehoop]

It’s like the dip shoulder shrug and no defense after thinking he was fouled when he was just out of control in the paint or up against trees in the lane.

He’s missed a lot of open guys, but I agree passing to JT probably isn’t optimal.

His long pass to Maliq for a dunk at GT last year was great.

This isn’t directed to atlanticuse but just a general rant, sorry. We had JoeG and Jesse leave which only increased the importance of Benny coming through for SU, and when it didn’t work, it changed both JT and Maliq’s roles the most. Judah’s role probably changed also while JJ had to adjust to an entirely new staff, new role etc. Players who had limited minutes the year before were now starters or being relied upon to carry the team with even a new defense. This isn’t counting the increased importance of relying for leadership on all the sophomores and soph transfers under coaches also adjusting to new roles. Yet we still got 20 wins but are ripping on the players who got us there and gave us optimism for the future. Lots of late adjustments that had to be made and will still be made but I look forward to the future and am thankful for the players who accepted new roles to get us those 20 wins.

 

[billsin01]

No he’s not. They were in the tourney.

Nothing has changed, no one said we would have won more games without him. Not one poster.

Here’s a post from a month ago which says exactly how I viewed his game. Nothing changed.

Okay so the Judah play?

I think he was trying to shoot but got caught and ended up "passing". Just an absolutely awful play for a "veteran" point guard with almost 2 years of full playing time. Yes, passing as the avenue of last resort rarely results in something positive.

syracusefan.com

I think what the majority is saying is we won’t miss him and the way he’s plays isn’t best to win in college basketball in 2024. The draft board comments are to show that others feel similarly

For you to slip that “we wouldn’t have won 10 games without Judah” is poor form. Total strawman stuff

Two3zone literally said his game is trash. i mean, i read that as he’s the reason we’re not in the tourney, which i wholeheartedly disagree with — disappointing sophomore season or not. There have been a lot of similarly disparaging comments (not sure of yours specifically).

Your summation of the consensus opinion — agree with (i.e. stylistic issues with Judah’s game relative to broader team goals). I just don’t agree that it’s been articulated that way by most.

Draft boards project your potential as a pro, not how effective you are as a college basketball player.

Strawman argument? Sure, I suppose. But the foundation of it is simply that he helped us win a bunch of games we wouldn’t have won otherwise. Hypothetical indeed, but I have no idea how we’re scoring, particularly early in the season, if it wasn’t for Judah. Felt differently in later in the season as q and brown were more prominently involved and JJ had more confidence.

Lastly, how much we miss Judah depends on a ton of factors beyond Judah simply not being the guy with the ball in his hands every trip. There’s a chance we don’t miss him and we’re all talking about tourney matchups this time next year. There’s also a non-zero chance the bottom falls out if we don’t strike a bit of oil in the portal.

 

[tptcuse]

Are you kidding? My daughter was about eight and made me a Father's Day card that was a picture of me having a coronary screaming at Scoop through the TV.

View attachment 239078

This is one of the best things ever posted on this board.

 

[atlanticuse]

This isn’t directed to atlanticuse but just a general rant, sorry. We had JoeG and Jesse leave which only increased the importance of Benny coming through for SU, and when it didn’t work, it changed both JT and Maliq’s roles the most. Judah’s role probably changed also while JJ had to adjust to an entirely new staff, new role etc. Players who had limited minutes the year before were now starters or being relied upon to carry the team with even a new defense. This isn’t counting the increased importance of relying for leadership on all the sophomores and soph transfers under coaches also adjusting to new roles. Yet we still got 20 wins but are ripping on the players who got us there and gave us optimism for the future. Lots of late adjustments that had to be made and will still be made but I look forward to the future and am thankful for the players who accepted new roles to get us those 20 wins.

I respect your rant.
But optimism for the future, with the players who are mostly leaving?

There is optimism every year. The negativity is that we're not playing, and (by NET/KenPom) how we gave up or got outplayed in the second half of games i.e. Louisville. We lost 4 games by 20+, plus other games in the teens.

20* wins.

 

[atlanticuse]

Two3zone literally said his game is trash. i mean, i read that as he’s the reason we’re not in the tourney, which i wholeheartedly disagree with — disappointing sophomore season or not. There have been a lot of similarly disparaging comments (not sure of yours specifically).

Your summation of the consensus opinion — agree with (i.e. stylistic issues with Judah’s game relative to broader team goals). I just don’t agree that it’s been articulated that way by most.

Draft boards project your potential as a pro, not how effective you are as a college basketball player.

Strawman argument? Sure, I suppose. But the foundation of it is simply that he helped us win a bunch of games we wouldn’t have won otherwise. Hypothetical indeed, but I have no idea how we’re scoring, particularly early in the season, if it wasn’t for Judah. Felt differently in later in the season as q and brown were more prominently involved and JJ had more confidence.

Lastly, how much we miss Judah depends on a ton of factors beyond Judah simply not being the guy with the ball in his hands every trip. There’s a chance we don’t miss him and we’re all talking about tourney matchups this time next year. There’s also a non-zero chance the bottom falls out if we don’t strike a bit of oil in the portal.

One player is not why we're not in the tourney.