Kaleb's turnovers

[AlaskaSU]

His A/T ratio is an inadequate 1.35:1. Never-the-less, I am impressed by the physical aspects of his dribbling. He has a shake and bake and a variety of other moves. His physical skills should be adequate. I remember Triche during his first couple of years when his only move was stop and go in a mad rush. I held my breadth every time. The problem with Kaleb is the opposite. The problem is his lack of awareness. He neither anticipates where his defenders are nor does he keep track of where his 4 teammates are. In short, he has the physical skills, but he does not value the ball. His turnovers are more due to his own careless errors then being stripped due to lack of physical skills. JB said as much during his PC. Can this carelessness be cured?

He does everything at a speed that is too fast to allow him to efficiently run the team. If he had more confidence he could slow things down and still be in control. Think of Z or Billy Edelin. Perhaps his problem is not unlike Trevor's - lack of confidence. Trevor has confidence in his shot but he lacks confidence in the other aspects of his game. When he was forced to play a full game today, it became obvious that he could. I think that Kaleb has the skills to let the game slow down for him, but lacks the confidence to calm down, especially when under pressure.

 

[teamco]

If you think about it, what you are saying is Joseph is essentially the anti-Ennis. Ennis was always deliberate, always under control, always knew where the defenders and his teammates were, or were going to be. Joseph seems to have no anticipatory basketball sense at this time. His turnovers are NOT primarily due to a lack of physical skills- yeah sure, he can use to work on his dribbling and especially passing mechanics and technique, but more likely those TOs occur because he is making bad basketball decisions. He doesn't know where folks are around him, or sense that he is dribbling into a trap, or a defender has the angle on a pass, or his teammate is about to zig when he thinks they are going to zag, etc. It is going to take time for those "senses" to develop. There is no substitute for experience. But hey, as JAB pointed out in yesterday's post game presser, this team has an abundance of problem, so Kaleb is not alone in his struggles.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

His A/T ratio is an inadequate 1.35:1. Never-the-less, I am impressed by the physical aspects of his dribbling. He has a shake and bake and a variety of other moves. His physical skills should be adequate. I remember Triche during his first couple of years when his only move was stop and go in a mad rush. I held my breadth every time. The problem with Kaleb is the opposite. The problem is his lack of awareness. He neither anticipates where his defenders are nor does he keep track of where his 4 teammates are. In short, he has the physical skills, but he does not value the ball. His turnovers are more due to his own careless errors then being stripped due to lack of physical skills. JB said as much during his PC. Can this carelessness be cured?

He does everything at a speed that is too fast to allow him to efficiently run the team. If he had more confidence he could slow things down and still be in control. Think of Z or Billy Edelin. Perhaps his problem is not unlike Trevor's - lack of confidence. Trevor has confidence in his shot but he lacks confidence in the other aspects of his game. When he was forced to play a full game today, it became obvious that he could. I think that Kaleb has the skills to let the game slow down for him, but lacks the confidence to calm down, especially when under pressure.

He does not value the ball. That's what I've seen from him every time I've watched the game. I hope he can slow it down, because he's killing us. As I have also said before, even when he doesn't have a turnover, it seems like he gets the ball to shooters too low, or the pass was tipped just a bit, such that a scoring chance is immediately lost.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We've given the intern the job, w/o interning, and without a mentor.
Tough for anyone.

 

[Nicknack]

He just flat out looks overwhelmed out there much of the time. What is discouraging to me is the amount of turnovers off plays where is really isn't making one... dribbling through traffic or a pass around the perimeter. I could much more easily accept a turnover if he's trying to drive or dish it down low to one of our bigs. I do think that this will get better but unfortunately, I also think that it won't happen soon.

The big positive with him is his shot when he penetrates. I feel like pulling my hair out at times when watching him because he could have so many more chances to score, which he has shown he can reliably do, when he drives and pulls up for a mid-range shot. He needs to do this MUCH more. This would not only help his game but the team. It would stress the opponent's defense, make them honest, which would open things up for everyone.

I think this is the case of a young man who was fully expecting to come in and take off right where Ennis and MCW left off. What has happened is what the majority of time happens with a freshman... they have to develop and adjust to a game that is much faster with more talent on the floor than they are used to in high school. I really like Joseph and see a tremendous amount of upside in his game. He just needs time and a lot more of it than most of us were expecting (including him in my opinion).

 

[jdubs30]

He goes 1 speed right now. It definitely looks like his scoring is improving game to game, he had a few nice plays yesterday, but he's just not a "PG" yet

 

[Brooky03]

He needs to just go out and score. If he keeps trying to be a pure PG, rather than a scoring PG, he's going to have a lot more sloppy games like this.

I don't think it will fix everything, but becoming a legit scoring threat might open up other parts of the game for him. Defenders might not gamble as much or play up in his shorts as much if he's able to make them pay. It's clear that shooting is much more comfortable for him than creating for others at this point in time.

 

[shandeezy7]

The biggest problem with his turnovers are that he is making most of them either on the perimeter or in the backcourt, leading directly to wide-open dunks on the other end. It's one thing to travel or throw a ball out of bounds. It's another thing to literally hand the other team two points.

His biggest problem right now appears to be that he doesn't have a plan when he has the ball in his hands. Tyler was always very calm, cool and collected. He wasn't thinking about the next step. He was thinking two steps ahead. Right now, I'm not so sure Kaleb is even thinking about what his next step is. All we can hope for is that with the more experience he gets, the more that will come to him.

 

[RF2044]

There is no doubt in my mind that Kaleb Joseph is going to be a terrific player for us later in his career. A difference maker, who is both a scorer and a dynamic playmaker for us.

Right now, he looks overwhelmed. He's a totally different player, and I'm not comparing their games / strengths / weaknesses, but in terms of readiness, the way Joseph is playing reminds me a lot of Jason Hart's freshman year during the 96/97 season. Lots of situational similarities. Sloppy handle, turnovers, lack of confidence handling the ball against pressure, no other experienced point guards on the roster for JB to turn to, generally overwhelmed, and good plays often offset by poor plays.

The difference is that Joseph is a better scorer at this stage of his comparative developmental curve than Hart was. But he's a worse defender. I'm not sure that these issues are going to get straightened out this season [unfortunately]. I think we're going to have to take our lumps with Joseph, and be better off for it down the road, even though it might not be of tremendous benefit this year.

My expectation is that he's going to be very solid next year. People will have written him off for his struggles this year, and will be surprised by how much he improves next year. Kid looks like a four year player to me--and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[NineOneSeven]

More head fakes and bounce passes, less soft chest passes.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

There is no doubt in my mind that Kaleb Joseph is going to be a terrific player for us later in his career. A difference maker, who is both a scorer and a dynamic playmaker for us.

Right now, he looks overwhelmed. He's a totally different player, and I'm not comparing their games / strengths / weaknesses, but in terms of readiness, the way Joseph is playing reminds me a lot of Jason Hart's freshman year during the 96/97 season. Lots of situational similarities. Sloppy handle, turnovers, lack of confidence handling the ball against pressure, no other experienced point guards on the roster for JB to turn to, generally overwhelmed, and good plays often offset by poor plays.

The difference is that Joseph is a better scorer at this stage of his comparative developmental curve than Hart was. But he's a worse defender. I'm not sure that these issues are going to get straightened out this season [unfortunately]. I think we're going to have to take our lumps with Joseph, and be better off for it down the road, even though it might not be of tremendous benefit this year.

My expectation is that he's going to be very solid next year. People will have written him off for his struggles this year, and will be surprised by how much he improves next year. Kid looks like a four year player to me--and there's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely right on here. Kaleb is ahead of Jason as a freshman. He just needs time and he needs everyone's patience. He isn't going anywhere either and he will be starting every game this year (and I bet he starts every game he plays while here)...I hope he stays four years...

 

[cpatrocks]

Do we have a nickname for KJ yet? If Cooney is Shaky Potatoes then what to we call KJ?

 

[SoBristol]

The problem is more simple (and less fixable this season). Kaleb needs to get stronger -- add muscle. In the half court, he often sets up 30-35 feet away from the basket, which makes everything more difficult. He has quickness, but lacks physical strength at this point of his career, so he can be pressured.

The secondary part of the problem is the make up of the team. Cooney had a good day yesterday and provided some supplemental ball-handling. But, typically, Kaleb does not get a lot of help from Cooney or the small forwards. The net result is that we are asking a lot of Kaleb, when in terms of development, he is at least a year away. Hope for the best, but it is a challenge.

 

[Orangello]

As others have noted, he does not protect the ball and the high dribble that you can get away with in HS is definately not helping things. I'm not encouraged that he can significantly improve his handle this year or next. Players tend to play well under pressure or not, and I fear this guy is in the latter category. Consistently poor decision making.

 

[jordoo]

Lots of good stuff and valid observations in this thread guys.

I have to admit I'm shocked by what he is still doing so poorly 9 games in. I'm still very high on Kaleb and long term I think he is going to be an excellent player for us (much like BJ and TylerR will be at some point) but it seems like we haven't seen any improvement over the course of 9 games which is a bit discouraging as far as season outlook goes. I look back to being so impressed with Kaleb against Carlton but as I think about it what he was doing was playing as an aggressive scoring lead guard. That's what he is IMO and when he looks for his own he doesn't play with hesitation. He isn't a natural at running offense and because of this he seems very unsure and so hesitant that he's easy to read. You can predict some of his turnovers as well because his court awareness seems nonexistent for much of the game.

I hope that he learns from watching Cooney dribble decisively and make the plays he could make without worrying about what he can't do. I also loved that Cooney seems to have taken on the roll of encouraging Kaleb every time he makes a mistake or a good play. Perhaps we see more of Cooney running stuff and allowing Kaleb to play off the ball and certainly taking some pressure of Kaleb in big situations. I thought Kaleb showed some nutz on his late drive and IMO it was the right decision, wish he would do that more often In the game.

 

[Orangello]

Do we have a nickname for KJ yet? If Cooney is Shaky Potatoes then what to we call KJ?

KillJoy

 

[Knicks411]

He's just not there yet; he wouldn't be the first freshmen PG to turn the ball over too much and become a really good player later on though

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

He needs to just go out and score. If he keeps trying to be a pure PG, rather than a scoring PG, he's going to have a lot more sloppy games like this.

I don't think it will fix everything, but becoming a legit scoring threat might open up other parts of the game for him. Defenders might not gamble as much or play up in his shorts as much if he's able to make them pay. It's clear that shooting is much more comfortable for him than creating for others at this point in time.

Put me in the he needs to be more selfish camp, he has been deferring too much. The art of the PG spot will come in time, but this team needs him to score, and it will make the distributing part easier for him long term when he becomes that kind of a threat.

 

[bevosu]

I'm not as optimistic about KJ's future as a PG. I think he's a 2 Guard. I don't see much of anything that indicates to me that he has the instincts to be anything more than a very average PG.

It's possible that the light might suddenly come on, but I'm not confident that it will. I think he can be a very good 2G, in time.

The board optimism reminds me a little of the summer hopes for T Hunt. he was going to develop into one of the top QB's in college football and we were going to win at least 8 games this past football season.

We need a solid PG. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Agree with post above... Too early to say that he will never be a great point guard. I just think he has an ABSOLUTE ton of things to work on and some of the things come natural... I just haven't seen him creating for others like I would hope to see, defensively he is lost but that hopefully will be fixed over his time, his handle is the new shaky potatos of the board. Every time he dribbles I hold my breathe and that is one thing you don't want from your point guard. He has potential, I just don't think it's at PG. Or even SG.. He's kind of a tweener.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'm not as optimistic about KJ's future as a PG. I think he's a 2 Guard. I don't see much of anything that indicates to me that he has the instincts to be anything more than a very average PG.

It's possible that the light might suddenly come on, but I'm not confident that it will. I think he can be a very good 2G, in time.

The board optimism reminds me a little of the summer hopes for T Hunt. he was going to develop into one of the top QB's in college football and we were going to win at least 8 games this past football season.

We need a solid PG. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. I hope I'm wrong.

He "could" be good but I also don't understand the people who seem certain he's going to be a great pg at some point. He seems like he can score but his dribbling, decision making, passing and creating are all below average for a PG.

Maybe he'll become a good combo guard for us but I don't see anything in his game that screams future great PG.

 

[Wallo]

Absolutely right on here. Kaleb is ahead of Jason as a freshman. He just needs time and he needs everyone's patience. He isn't going anywhere either and he will be starting every game this year (and I bet he starts every game he plays while here)...I hope he stays four years...

At this rate, he is afour year player. Cooney showed yesterday that he is a better handler of the ball,--crossover dribbling,passing, and zero T.O.'s yesterday !!

 

[orange2win]

To be fair, Kenneth Smith is a senior and he was all over Kaleb and taking ridiculous liberties with him. A seasoned PG would have made him pay dearly for this nonsense, but Kaleb panicked under the intense pressure. It worked. Kaleb had 8 TO's.

Bad news is that all our opponents from this point on will see the film and do likewise. JB may be forced to emergency Plan B, like he did last night in the final 10 minutes.

 

[SoBristol]

To be fair, Kenneth Smith is a senior and he was all over Kaleb and taking ridiculous liberties with him. A seasoned PG would have made him pay dearly for this nonsense, but Kaleb panicked under the intense pressure. It worked. Kaleb had 8 TO's.

Bad news is that all our opponents from this point on will see the film and do likewise. JB may be forced to emergency Plan B, like he did last night in the final 10 minutes.

Any opponent who sees that game will pressure Cooney to force him to get the ball back to Kaleb. Won't take a lot to do that.

I disagree with those who feel Kaleb won't mature into a good point guard. He just isn't ready (physically) this season. Not making the comparison in other ways, but MCW added 20 lbs from his frosh year to his soph year, and was much stronger in his ball-handling.

 

[Madbiker]

There is no doubt in my mind that Kaleb Joseph is going to be a terrific player for us later in his career. A difference maker, who is both a scorer and a dynamic playmaker for us.

Right now, he looks overwhelmed. He's a totally different player, and I'm not comparing their games / strengths / weaknesses, but in terms of readiness, the way Joseph is playing reminds me a lot of Jason Hart's freshman year during the 96/97 season. Lots of situational similarities. Sloppy handle, turnovers, lack of confidence handling the ball against pressure, no other experienced point guards on the roster for JB to turn to, generally overwhelmed, and good plays often offset by poor plays.

The difference is that Joseph is a better scorer at this stage of his comparative developmental curve than Hart was. But he's a worse defender. I'm not sure that these issues are going to get straightened out this season [unfortunately]. I think we're going to have to take our lumps with Joseph, and be better off for it down the road, even though it might not be of tremendous benefit this year.

My expectation is that he's going to be very solid next year. People will have written him off for his struggles this year, and will be surprised by how much he improves next year. Kid looks like a four year player to me--and there's nothing wrong with that.

As much as it hurts pulling my hair out when he commits a bad TO, you have to realize this kid has been thrown into the deep end of the pool and told to sink or swim. It's a tough situation for anyone. He isn't ready this year, but he's all we've got and we're going to have to take our lumps. He reminds me a little of Scoop (except worse on D) and I think he will progress like Scoop did. The first 2 seasons will be tough but he'll improve each year. His last 2 years (also think he's a 4 year guy) should be good. Still, we need to recruit a true PG instead of all the combo guards.