Keeley Article on Marrone

[tipphill]

My feeling about Marrone is that he's young and learning thus isn't really to the point he knows what exactly he wants to do, has a good idea but has tinkered around trying to figure it out. I'm hoping SU becomes a Stanford east type of team, not exactly but the basic premise of what they do.

i had always hoped that upenn could become stanford east---but will never happen

 

[SmilinBob]

i had always hoped that upenn could become stanford east---but will never happen

You'd have a better chance of Shaun Penn doing it than UP.

 

[kingottoiii]

My feeling about Marrone is that he's young and learning thus isn't really to the point he knows what exactly he wants to do, has a good idea but has tinkered around trying to figure it out. I'm hoping SU becomes a Stanford east type of team, not exactly but the basic premise of what they do.

I think that is a flawed hope that SU can do what Stanford has done. First Stanford's success has been short term. Let's see if it is sustainable. Second Stanford has a ton of surrounding HS talent that SU does not. Third I think that the timing was right for Stanford where the P12 was down. Fourth Andrew Luck had a lot to do with the success there.

If that is Marrone's plan I would be worried.

 

[xc84]

An

I think that is a flawed hope that SU can do what Stanford has done. First Stanford's success has been short term. Let's see if it is sustainable. Second Stanford has a ton of surrounding HS talent that SU does not. Third I think that the timing was right for Stanford where the P12 was down. Fourth Andrew Luck had a lot to do with the success there.

If that is Marrone's plan I would be worried.

What "plan" are you referring to? How did Stanford get to where it is? Recruiting better? You are against that?

 

[kingottoiii]

An

What "plan" are you referring to? How did Stanford get to where it is? Recruiting better? You are against that?

Yes I am against that :bat:

 

[SmilinBob]

I think that is a flawed hope that SU can do what Stanford has done. First Stanford's success has been short term. Let's see if it is sustainable. Second Stanford has a ton of surrounding HS talent that SU does not. Third I think that the timing was right for Stanford where the P12 was down. Fourth Andrew Luck had a lot to do with the success there.

If that is Marrone's plan I would be worried.

Good solid base and tinker around improving certain aspects of your gameplan. Use your players to maximize efficiency and use all of them to expose your opponents weakness. If you're able to get some good speed or size it's a bonus and you start moving to the next level. Harbough did pretty damn well without Luck at SF. The system works.

 

[SoBristol]

Yeah and those BC teams were always stuck being 5th in the BE. IMO SU will never be able to get by on talent. What made SU good in the 80s and 90s was our system. That is what IMO we need to be successful. We need a system that will mask where we are deficient in talent and accentuate the talent we do have. That is how Mac built SU. That is how P kept SU going. That is what I worry Marrone does not get. I guess we will see this year the answer.

How Mac built SU -- Donnie McPherson, dynamic RBs (Michael Owens) and WRs (Moore, Kane, Ismail), guys like Daryl Johnston at FB, Pat Kelly at TE, and an upgrade at OL. That, plus a system (freeze option) that could use the talent. Mac was selling better athletes on coming to SU. He struggled on the field until his impact on the recruiting trails could convert into a dynamic offense -- and a lot of that success came with landing skill guys to upgrade the talent.
And this what we haven't seen -- yet -- with Marrone. Maybe it takes time to build networks or better facilities. Maybe you need wins first. Maybe the world is different (UConn & Rutgers & Pitt hitting our recruiting regions). Maybe Syracuse as a region has declined in population and tone. Lots of excuses. But by year 4 you would like to see some excitement --

 

[kingottoiii]

Good solid base and tinker around improving certain aspects of your gameplan. Use your players to maximize efficiency and use all of them to expose your opponents weakness. If you're able to get some good speed or size it's a bonus and you start moving to the next level. Harbough did pretty damn well without Luck at SF. The system works.

He has had talent. I think to ignore that is flawed. The 5 years before he took over at Stanford they had records of

2-9
4-7
4-7
5-6
1-11

In his first year he went 4-8. His second year he went 5-7 but despite that and the crappy years prior, he brought in a Top 25 class. Year three he went 8-5 bringing in another Top 25 class before taking off in year 4. So in his 4th year he had two Top 25 classes to work with.

Marrone is entering his 4th year without a Top 50 class to work with. If we can start bringing in Top 25 classes I would be more than happy to go the Stanford route. But for various reasons I cannot see Marrone getting that done. So he better have another system planned.

 

[xc84]

How Mac built SU -- Donnie McPherson, dynamic RBs (Michael Owens) and WRs (Moore, Kane, Ismail), guys like Daryl Johnston at FB, Pat Kelly at TE, and an upgrade at OL. That, plus a system (freeze option) that could use the talent. Mac was selling better athletes on coming to SU. He struggled on the field until his impact on the recruiting trails could convert into a dynamic offense -- and a lot of that success came with landing skill guys to upgrade the talent.
And this what we haven't seen -- yet -- with Marrone. Maybe it takes time to build networks or better facilities. Maybe you need wins first. Maybe the world is different (UConn & Rutgers & Pitt hitting our recruiting regions). Maybe Syracuse as a region has declined in population and tone. Lots of excuses. But by year 4 you would like to see some excitement --

The evidence of a turning point for Coach Mac came in hist 4th year with a victory v. #1 Nebraska, a team that eventually finished #4. That was the turning point for fans too. The week before they lost to a crappy Rutgers team. There was little excitement at that point about the prospects of beating Nebraska or the rest of the season. You are right about how he did it. He got some key players and built the team around them. He was not against using unorthodox schemes and trick plays which helped him overcome some talent deficiencies. The 1984 season helped him recruit even better leading to the '87 Sugar Bowl team.

 

[SmilinBob]

He has had talent. I think to ignore that is flawed. The 5 years before he took over at Stanford they had records of

2-9
4-7
4-7
5-6
1-11

In his first year he went 4-8. His second year he went 5-7 but despite that and the crappy years prior, he brought in a Top 25 class. Year three he went 8-5 bringing in another Top 25 class before taking off in year 4. So in his 4th year he had two Top 25 classes to work with.

Marrone is entering his 4th year without a Top 50 class to work with. If we can start bringing in Top 25 classes I would be more than happy to go the Stanford route. But for various reasons I cannot see Marrone getting that done. So he better have another system planned.

I never said he didn't have talent, FSU has talent up the ying yang but it's what you do with it that makes the difference. I don't care what the classes are rated but I do care who Marrone targets and who he gets. If Marrone and his staff can target X amount of kids and get at least Y of those that they need, I'll be happy. Rankings are for fans to yap about.

 

[kingottoiii]

I never said he didn't have talent, FSU has talent up the ying yang but it's what you do with it that makes the difference. I don't care what the classes are rated but I do care who Marrone targets and who he gets. If Marrone and his staff can target X amount of kids and get at least Y of those that they need, I'll be happy. Rankings are for fans to yap about.

The issue is we severely lack talent on O. Who are the Marrone recruits that anyone is excited about? Where is the talent and depth at the skill positions? Recruiting rankings aren't all that important. I agree with that. But where is the young talent? Why do we have such huge question marks at RB, WR, and backup QB?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The issue is we severely lack talent on O. Who are the Marrone recruits that anyone is excited about? Where is the talent and depth at the skill positions? Recruiting rankings aren't all that important. I agree with that. But where is the young talent? Why do we have such huge question marks at RB, WR, and backup QB?

Because fans don't come to the games, Robinson took the program behind the wood shed, the facilities are crap and our expectations should be lower.

Whatever you say, don't acknowledge that even though Marrone has pulled us out of the gutter it doesn't look like enough.

 

[SmilinBob]

The issue is we severely lack talent on O. Who are the Marrone recruits that anyone is excited about? Where is the talent and depth at the skill positions? Recruiting rankings aren't all that important. I agree with that. But where is the young talent? Why do we have such huge question marks at RB, WR, and backup QB?

I agree it's an issue, the lack of explosiveness on O. I think the question marks on the backup qb is because Nassib has taken all the snaps and we can't blow anyone out. I think the young talent is getting faster until we get to the bigger guys that everyone wants. RB has had 1 guy get the bulk of the carries so that's why there's a ? with that and if Gulley didn't get hurt we might not have had such a big ? regarding that. WR worries me and the need to stretch the field has still not impressed me, I see Sales catching the ball over the middle and Lemon but the rest have yet to impress. Footballs really hard to gauge potential and ask the NFL who right now after parsing the heck out of these new recruits is still struggling on who to go after. I do believe that most of the new speed has been moved to defense.

 

[GoSU96]

How Mac built SU -- Donnie McPherson, dynamic RBs (Michael Owens) and WRs (Moore, Kane, Ismail), guys like Daryl Johnston at FB, Pat Kelly at TE, and an upgrade at OL. That, plus a system (freeze option) that could use the talent. Mac was selling better athletes on coming to SU. He struggled on the field until his impact on the recruiting trails could convert into a dynamic offense -- and a lot of that success came with landing skill guys to upgrade the talent.
And this what we haven't seen -- yet -- with Marrone. Maybe it takes time to build networks or better facilities. Maybe you need wins first. Maybe the world is different (UConn & Rutgers & Pitt hitting our recruiting regions). Maybe Syracuse as a region has declined in population and tone. Lots of excuses. But by year 4 you would like to see some excitement --

Mac built the defense first. Those offensive guys came a couple of years into his rebuild. Sorta like what is happening now.

1. Build the defense.
2. Close the gap with your peers.
3. Steal some wins as an underdog.
4. Develop some impact players on both sides.
5. Win consistently.

 

[Van111]

Nothing "wrong" with it...but I don't want it. I want a guy, like Marrone, who may stay, grow, and be content at his alma mater.

I think DM is a great guy and coach, but lets be real. This is not a nice guy business. Fans will not tolerate a losing or subpar program, just the facts. The Fan Base want consistency and a contender. Anything less is not realistic. We can have off years, but not back to back of years, or even worse 3-4 year down years. Otherwise, I hate to say it, DM, like any other coach will be on the hot seat.

Now, that said, there is one area we have been behind in for the last 10 plus years. We have diminshed in recruiting, especially after Miami, VT and BC left the BE. I for on am not all in with going after NY talent for 2 reasons. NY is not way up there talent wise, and the top talent coming out of the state is committing to other places, at least for the most part. Yes, we grabbed Morgan last year, but it was a nail bitter and had PSU gotten after him a few weeks earlier, not so sure we would have bagged him. I have gotten alot of flak from the Orange Clad glasses many of us wear, but to be openly honest, the best recruits have trended to committ much much sooner than they were just a few years ago. Larger programs use these kids to get other top recruits in. The game has changed, and if you want to become a contender, recruiting is just as important as field play. If DM does not pick up in recruiting, and that means hold on to and improve his staff in this area as well, then this will be the norm for this program. the best recruits don't always mean a winning program, case and point look at Miami, but it sure helps. Most notably it showed at the end of last season. DM had no options to go to. Talent is a key part of the program, lets get that straight, and teams across the country are not waiting anylonger.

 

[RoysRunts]

Marrone and D Backs Coach worked on Herm Edwards staff for the Jets , I lost that loving feeling after the Rutgers game last year.

 

[RoysRunts]

Mac built the defense first. Those offensive guys came a couple of years into his rebuild. Sorta like what is happening now.

1. Build the defense.
2. Close the gap with your peers.
3. Steal some wins as an underdog.
4. Develop some impact players on both sides.
5. Win consistently.

#5 Be consistent with the staff.

 

[SmilinBob]

Evaluating your coach is a very important thing, if not thee most important thing an AD can do. I think Marrone is a bit on the luke warm seat right now and this is why he's keeping this team hidden and focused not just for them but for himself. I firmly believe he is on the right track overall but I'm sure even he'd say this, he has to show more improvement with this team.

As for getting Morgan, sometimes you get a break but the staff also worked hard in getting Morgan as well, he didn't just fall in their laps. PSU did come in late but that was their fault, not ours. I agree SU has to get a good amount of kids they target and winning will help that and hopefully this 2012 group will show us something and give us more of a read on what this staff is going to do, what direction they are going and what identity they are going to have. 5-2 and a big win over WV then yuk...it was like the two faced woman on Seinfield, beautiful on one day and yikes on the next. I'm very curious to see which one will will get, the balls in your court coach Marrone.

 

[GoSU96]

#5 Be consistent with the staff.

Other than the constant rearrangement of the offensive staff in the mid 80's you're right.

 

[SoBristol]

Mac built the defense first. Those offensive guys came a couple of years into his rebuild. Sorta like what is happening now.

1. Build the defense.
2. Close the gap with your peers.
3. Steal some wins as an underdog.
4. Develop some impact players on both sides.
5. Win consistently.

Not sure about that sequence -- esp build the defense first. If you check the roster about 4 years into Mac's tenure, you will see many of the skill guys as RF or , the guys who came to the front as impact players on offense in 1986-87. .

Another fact check -- do you believe Marrone is building with defense? In year 3, the D took a big step back (minus the carry-over guys like Hogue, Smith, Perkins). Not sure we are seeing an uplift in the LBs, DEs or pass rush or turn-overs.

Add to your list -- improve specials. Happened under Mac. Still waiting to see that again.

 

[Scooch]

I have a sincere question on the "stepping stone / coach for a lifetime" debate...

Did Coach P ever get significant offers to leave?

I would have figured that after his initial 10-2 campaigns he would have been on some short lists for better gigs. And during the McNabb era I figured some of that interest would have returned.