bnoro
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Derrick Rose is Adidas, off the top of my head. Can't think of any more.
Kentucky and Calipari Are Ruining College Basketball
- Thread starter HakAttack
- Start date
The difference is that JB can only land ONE one and done player every few years and Calipari's connections with WWW help him land TWO or THREE or as many per year as he desires. Are you honestly saying that JB would've said NO to someone like Anthony Davis or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist? Maybe he'd pass on Teague but JB would've done any possible within legal limits to get thouse guys if they were interested.
TinyManInside
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JB actively recruited several players who have been on UK's roster over the last few years. He would have killed to have Anthony Davis, and he also went hard after Doron Lamb and Brandon Knight.
EastCoast2
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Wall is in those Reebok commercials, right?
kingtidge
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Exactly, because if you only have one 1-and-done player, it doesn't count...:crazy:
You can be mad he got 3 and we have none, but we rode our 1-and-done to a NC - of that there is no question...
homer logic 101...
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Except for the fact that when JB recruited Melo he was rated about 30-40th in the country. He blew up after we started going after him.
kingtidge
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And we went from pre-season unranked to winning it all...
so what?
People here don't like the PayPal Cal 1-and-done recruiting religion... I get that... I'm also not saying that Boeheim recruits that way at all...
But it doesn't change the fact that we ended up having a one-and-done phenom freshmen - a once in a quarter-century player - that became arguably the best player in the country as a frosh and led us to our National Champioship...
You can claim Boeheim recruited him soundly and without sleazery and greazy-handshakes, and I'd likely agree...
But the fact remains we won it on the back of a 1-and-done phenom.
Pot calling kettle on some folks here, that's all I'm saying...
Do I think Cal has taken the approach to a disgusting extreme to the point where the rules need to be changed - absolutely.
CaptainJ
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I fully agree that some things are not optimal and are a farce with the NCAA being partially made into a farm system, but I don't see anything overwhelmingly wrong with it. I don't know the statistics, but the commercials tell me most athletes get their degrees. If a small percentage leave early to go pro and help make the universities money in the meantime while entertaining rabid fans like us(as well as more casual fans), I don't see the harm. Whether or not a certain coach uses illegal practices or not to recruit is an ENTIRELY different issue, of which there is no apparent proof(according to Dickie V, last night).
I'm kind of old school and enjoy when players who could leave early choose to stay the 4 years, but I think that choice should be up to the individual and based on what they feel will best suit their needs. Sure some will make what we call the "wrong" choice, but so do folks in every arena of life. Free will is one of the gifts humans are supposedly born with at least to some extent(some scientists argue it is limited, based on the chemicals and programs instilled within us, but I don't wish to get too complicated), and I feel it should only be limited when it infringes on the natural rights of others. I think nature provides us a good example with natural laws letting things get tested to see what works and what doesn't. People who want to control others should have substantial proof of the harm a person would do to others before limiting any sort of rights such as free association.
While we're discussing natural law(nature does things better than mankind in general, similar to private organizations vs government), I think we'd also do better to let nature take it's course with age of consent laws like the less backward nations of Europe. As much as I hate to say it, sometimes they employ more common sense and have less vested interest in having the world's largest number of prisoners unlike us with our government grift and private, for profit prisons. Our legalistic mentality has been instilled since a young age and is helpful for a "justice" system whose primary cause has become revenue generation and instilling of fear and control rather than preventing actual crimes against persons and property. I won't get started on the victimless crimes and the corporations those laws assist. Yeah I am off topic, if anyone bothered to read, but we now return you to the hypocritical bashing of "Paypal Cal".
I'm kind of old school and enjoy when players who could leave early choose to stay the 4 years, but I think that choice should be up to the individual and based on what they feel will best suit their needs. Sure some will make what we call the "wrong" choice, but so do folks in every arena of life. Free will is one of the gifts humans are supposedly born with at least to some extent(some scientists argue it is limited, based on the chemicals and programs instilled within us, but I don't wish to get too complicated), and I feel it should only be limited when it infringes on the natural rights of others. I think nature provides us a good example with natural laws letting things get tested to see what works and what doesn't. People who want to control others should have substantial proof of the harm a person would do to others before limiting any sort of rights such as free association.
While we're discussing natural law(nature does things better than mankind in general, similar to private organizations vs government), I think we'd also do better to let nature take it's course with age of consent laws like the less backward nations of Europe. As much as I hate to say it, sometimes they employ more common sense and have less vested interest in having the world's largest number of prisoners unlike us with our government grift and private, for profit prisons. Our legalistic mentality has been instilled since a young age and is helpful for a "justice" system whose primary cause has become revenue generation and instilling of fear and control rather than preventing actual crimes against persons and property. I won't get started on the victimless crimes and the corporations those laws assist. Yeah I am off topic, if anyone bothered to read, but we now return you to the hypocritical bashing of "Paypal Cal".
H
HOFCeluck
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The fact that Carmelo Anthony was thought by many to be a 2-3 year player when he committed is the critical point. The fact that we won the title with him as the star is irrelevant.
Like I said before...Carmelo wasnt Carmelo when we were recruiting him.
Like I said before...Carmelo wasnt Carmelo when we were recruiting him.
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Go back to the OP that started the discussion. It's not whether a 1 and done led a team to a championship. It's not that we too are recruiting Noel. It's a difference in recruiting philosophy. Calimari has a far different philosophy than any other coach in the country. It's why Knight and WWW were in the lockerroom celebrating.
PoppyHart
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Cal's also proven that he can take these kids to the Final Four with regularity. That helps.
CaptainJ
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We tried for Anthony Davis and NN, so I don't think the 'Carmelo wasn't Carmelo yet' argument holds any water, at least in the present. After watching what Cal did for AD last night and having the spot open for him, I am not sure why NN would be considered a near-lock for SU like some on here seem to believe. I hope he comes, but if you look at track record as well as the logistics, a lot of logic is leaning in the direction of Cal it would seem. Emotion and lesser variables could change that though, and that is what I am hoping for.
djcon57
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Derrick Rose just signed like a DILLION $$ deal w/ adidas
Toga
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NCAA isn't going to have any sort of fruitful investigation. The only investigation that might ever go anywhere is tax evasion if money isn't declared.
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Every coach is going to recruit the studs and sometimes, those studs will be 1 and dones. But that doesn't change the fact that Calimari's recruiting philosophy is different than anyone's.
H
HOFCeluck
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It refutes the idea that because cuse won the title with Carmelo Anthony leading the way Boeheims recruiting tactics are like Caliparis.
Coach K recruited Austin Rivers knowing his intentions...does at mean he is adopting Caliparis philosophy as well?
DoctorBombay
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Bottom line, the process sucks...and Cal utilizes that process better than anyone else.
The fact that he does it so shamelessly, & is very successful doing it, is what ticks people off.
Don't look now but the blueprint for future success in CBB has been laid out...for better or for worse.
The fact that he does it so shamelessly, & is very successful doing it, is what ticks people off.
Don't look now but the blueprint for future success in CBB has been laid out...for better or for worse.
HakAttack
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Trust bees to understand the point of what I was trying to make.
We all know that these kids are not "amateurs." But what "Coach Cal" is doing is making a mockery of the game. ESPN won't say anything because it's a cash cow for them, the NCAA's the same way. Why even make these kids go to class? They won't be around for the next year anyway. Hard to have them negatively impact the program long-term when they're barely there.
In this current "agreement," everyone wins, but the game of college basketball gets *cked over.
Let's take a look, shall we.
The kids get to showcase their talent at a top level program for one year before they sign guaranteed $ as lottery picks = they win.
Calipari gets to Final Fours and eventually wins a national championship = he wins.
Kentucky is a basketball powerhouse again, enrollment goes up, school's in the national spotlight = they win.
NCAA gets one of their "blue blood" programs to dominate the rest of college basketball with an utterly dominant "team" (despite the fact they're all one and done kids), which means exposure and $$$ = they win.
NBA gets the hype train rolling once the final four's over and get future stars that have dominated in college = they win.
The rest of college basketball is left trying to figure out how to slow down this runaway freight train (the way Calimari and Kentucky conduct business) that can't be stopped. This is bad for college basketball as a whole and again, makes a mockery of the sport.
There's a reason why people resented Bosh and LeBron when they p*ssied out and went to Miami to join Wade. Everyone's trying to take shortcuts these days, that's the way of the world. It doesn't make it right. It makes it cheap, skeezy and ultimately is unsustainable.
This is not college basketball anymore. This is "farm team pimping" at it's nauseating finest.
If you want to enjoy it, go ahead. But for anyone to suggest that Boeheim's similar to "Pimp Cal" because we had Carmelo Anthony, perhaps the best college Freshman of the last 30 years, a once in a generation talent, you're an idiot and I don't honestly care to converse with you because it's obvious that you're clueless about the game of basketball.
SBU72
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Funny that you should say that. I heard some guy yesterday maintain that kids should get out of the college game as soon as they can. In college they have to put up with a bunch of hackers, get swarmed by 2 or 3 defenders because they are good. They should be able to go to the NBA with it's wide open game where they won't get hurt and have more freedom to move. You are saying just the opposite. I'm not saying you are wrong, just repeating what I heard.
K
kingottoiii
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IMO an easy way to fix it is to have scholarships be four years. So if a kid leaves after one year, then his scholarship isn't available again for another 3 years. This will prevent teams from stockpiling one and done players. Either that or they will have zero depth and risk not making the NCAAT at all. Which means those players will be spread out between more teams, creating more parity. It also eliminates the need for the APR.
For SU going forward
2012 8 returning players (if Mookie comes back), 2 incoming Frosh, and 1 available scholarship to give out
2013 7 returning players and 4 (-1 if we add a 2012 player) available scholarships to give out
2014 5 returning players and 8 (- any 2012 and 2013 recruits) available scholarships
For UK going forward
2012 can have 9 scholarship players
2013 can have 9 as long as no one else leaves
2014 can have 11 as long as no one else leaves
For SU going forward
2012 8 returning players (if Mookie comes back), 2 incoming Frosh, and 1 available scholarship to give out
2013 7 returning players and 4 (-1 if we add a 2012 player) available scholarships to give out
2014 5 returning players and 8 (- any 2012 and 2013 recruits) available scholarships
For UK going forward
2012 can have 9 scholarship players
2013 can have 9 as long as no one else leaves
2014 can have 11 as long as no one else leaves
Orangeyes
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Parity is something the NFL has strived for and for most intents & purposes it has worked.
Your formula would probably help solve the NCAA problem created by Calapari's system
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Radical. I like it but maybe it could be such that you don't get the "penalty" for the 4th year and is viewed as a 3 year deal even if it is a 4 year scholie to the athlete?
SU2NASA
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It doesn't take much to change a game. With an average spread of about 3.5 points, it sure doesn't take a lot to change the outcome.
It's also not just the fouls called, it's the effect that they have on the flow of the game.
So with our game with Ohio State, for a defensive and transition team like SU, it's not just the fouls called, it's their effect on how we can play defense and not being able to run in transition. I have no doubt in my mind that there was a conscious effort to affect the outcome of the game. Statistically, where just the fouls called were three standard deviations from the average of the entire regular season, and that there were 6 more called than the highest total for any game this season, the officiating in that game against us was incredibly mathematically improbable. And there are way too many games in the tournament now that are in that same category than to explain as mere coincidence, especially given their timing in the postseason.
EastCoast2
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or do it a mandatory 2 year scholly, then by one year for 3rd and 4th. that way a school is penalized one scholly for one year for one one-and done... Hard to punish a guy like Wes Johnson or someone who blows up soph year like Derrick Williams
