Kimble

[Millhouse]

Edouard and Dungey aren't enough for you?

not even close

edouard might be a unicorn and dungey had to pick between us and missoula

 

[storange]

No Im playing the the law of probability, If we sign 25 QBs one will be really good.

Edouard and Dungey aren't enough for you?

 

[TheCusian]

This is why I don't understand some of the resistance on the board to us adopting what other people are doing that works. At a certain point you'd think we'd be tired of bad offense, but I guess deep down, we really like it. Syracuse's next innovation is going to be the opposite of 5 wide. It will be called 5 narrow, and put 3 TEs and 2 fullbacks in the box.

I just think you guys see things too simply. It's Air Raid and Meat Head and that's it.

There are thousands of permutations and combinations of both.

Also, if it's so effective universally how come it's not universal? (Correct answer: it's not that easy and defenses have adjusted somewhat and you need good players at key positions).

 

[Millhouse]

I just think you guys see things too simply. It's Air Raid and Meat Head and that's it.

There are thousands of permutations and combinations of both.

Also, if it's so effective universally how come it's not universal? (Correct answer: it's not that easy and defenses have adjusted somewhat and you need good players at key positions).

because brain damaged former players become brain damaged coaches

 

[Chip]

not even close

edouard might be a unicorn and dungey had to pick between us and missoula

There's no one else they can get at this point, except more unicorns or people with no other offers.

I really hope Edouard shows. But even if he does, how long before something happens and he's back in Fla for whatever reason.

 

[javadoc]

Once we get into visit season in mid-January, if there isn't metaphysical certainty that Edouard will be here, I think we should open up the spot. Especially if there is a chance to get a blue chip prospect amidst the chaos of coaching changes etc.

 

[TheCusian]

because brain damaged former players become brain damaged coaches

Lame non-answer.

 

[SUFan44]

All of the kids you mentioned were heavily recruited, 4 or 5 star type kids. I don't think any of those guys were really developmental prospects like a Hunt, Wilson, etc. I agree that those guys are out there, but Syracuse hasn't been a player for those types of kids.

Why do we have to settle for kids that are similar to those that have gone to Syracuse in the past? Aren't we in a much better conference? Don't we offer a much earlier opportunity for one of the better kids to play early? Why do things have to function as they have in the past? I don't get it.

 

[CIL]

part of the reason i like some version of the air raid is because how teams practice it. teams install it quick, it develops qbs quickly. fast pace, every snap, every qb and every WR are throwing and catching. there are definitely tradeoffs - it's a sucky way for a defense to prepare for a variety of opponents. but I don't care. our passing has been so bad every year but one since 1998.

it doesn't have to be air raid. i think it's easier for QBs when as many people as possible are out of the way. spreading everyone out, running 4 verticals, breaking off based on coverages, practicing it over and over, a million passes in the air, combined with simple counting to decide when to run or throw the bubble. it's just not that hard.

you're not going to win every game this way, eventually you'll trip up against someone that goes all Nick Provo on you. OH WELL

I understand and agree with most of what you are saying but I think that's a bit of an over simplification. Part of the reason those Air Raid or Spread teams are so successful is they have a system and they stay the with it. That's how you get the "practicing over and over". Ga Tech runs the damn flex bone veer but they do it over and over. We are on our what, 4th or 5th system in 8 years?

We have to keep recruiting different QB's for a system but the system leaves. Austin Wilson is a terrible fit for the read zone. I am worried Edouard and Long will be bad fits for Lester's offense. We keep chasing our freaking tails here. It's silly. You look at Wisconsin "meathead" football but they keep finding backs and linemen that fit their system. They crank out 1500 yard rushers year over year. We've gone from Crow-hop to pistol to bubble screen to pro style to hurry up shotgun to GMac's Frankenstein to this.

And we wonder why our QB's aren't producing?

 

[Millhouse]

Lame non-answer.

here's another answer. coaches have different incentives than the programs. it might be better for a program to run a simple garden variety spread but it's not in the best interests of a coach wishing to distinguish himself from the pack. that's how we end up with terrible offenses like the N Zone (an otherwise ordinary spread but with new and improved bubble screens out the a into coverage)

 

[Millhouse]

I understand and agree with most of what you are saying but I think that's a bit of an over simplification. Part of the reason those Air Raid or Spread teams are so successful is they have a system and they stay the with it. That's how you get the "practicing over and over". Ga Tech runs the damn flex bone veer but they do it over and over. We are on our what, 4th or 5th system in 8 years?

We have to keep recruiting different QB's for a system but the system leaves. Austin Wilson is a terrible fit for the read zone. I am worried Edouard and Long will be bad fits for Lester's offense. We keep chasing our freaking tails here. It's silly. You look at Wisconsin "meathead" football but they keep finding backs and linemen that fit their system. They crank out 1500 yard rushers year over year. We've gone from Crow-hop to pistol to bubble screen to pro style to hurry up shotgun to GMac's Frankenstein to this.

And we wonder why our QB's aren't producing?

which is why we should replace mcdonald with someone who runs a similar offense that actually knows what he's doing

wisconsin has lineman that fit their system because those farm boys wash down bricks of cheese with a gallon of milk every 15 minutes since birth

 

[CIL]

which is why we should replace mcdonald with someone who runs a similar offense that actually knows what he's doing

Does it have to be a similar offense though? That's really the question. The one game film I watched of Lester's offense at Elmhurst I liked what I saw. Problem is D3 is soooo skewed to have one or two really good players that you can't truly ID success or not. I don't think it matters next year if we don't win 7 games.

 

[Millhouse]

Does it have to be a similar offense though? That's really the question. The one game film I watched of Lester's offense at Elmhurst I liked what I saw. Problem is D3 is soooo skewed to have one or two really good players that you can't truly ID success or not. I don't think it matters next year if we don't win 7 games.

there would be more continuity. mcdonald's offense was fine. mcdonald was terrible. get someone who can call plays and teach and run the same .

 

[TheCusian]

here's another answer. coaches have different incentives than the programs. it might be better for a program to run a simple garden variety spread but it's not in the best interests of a coach wishing to distinguish himself from the pack. that's how we end up with terrible offenses like the N Zone (an otherwise ordinary spread but with new and improved bubble screens out the a into coverage)

I don't buy that for a second. Coaches want to win 1st. Worrying about how they get there has got to be a lower priority. The fact the systems like N Zone exist proves the opposite - coaches want to win and will buy the hype to install something that purported to work.

Lester himself said that some people call what he does "the spread" - which given what we know about 12 personnel - would mean flexing your TE out as a WR (without switching personnel).

Which is my point: Air Raid and Spread principles are everywhere and incorporated all over college football. It's not new and flashy - it's another tool in the arsenal.

Coaches know more about how to defend it (Shafer v Holgerson x3). For it to be your primary look, you need great players - just like any offense.

I like the ideas behind Lesters offense - a mix of spread and 9 guys in tight.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't buy that for a second. Coaches want to win 1st. Worrying about how they get there has got to be a lower priority. The fact the systems like N Zone exist proves the opposite - coaches want to win and will buy the hype to install something that purported to work. Lester himself said that some people call what he does "the spread" - which given what we know about 12 personnel - would mean flexing your TE out as a WR (without switching personnel). Which is my point: Air Raid and Spread principles are everywhere and incorporated all over college football. It's not new and flashy - it's another tool in the arsenal. Coaches know more about how to defend it (Shafer v Holgerson x3). For it to be your primary look, you need great players - just like any offense. I like the ideas behind Lesters offense - a mix of spread and 9 guys in tight.

If it's so good why doesn't everyone Lester's ? Same question

 

[Hoov50]

I don't buy that for a second. Coaches want to win 1st. Worrying about how they get there has got to be a lower priority. The fact the systems like N Zone exist proves the opposite - coaches want to win and will buy the hype to install something that purported to work.

Lester himself said that some people call what he does "the spread" - which given what we know about 12 personnel - would mean flexing your TE out as a WR (without switching personnel).

Which is my point: Air Raid and Spread principles are everywhere and incorporated all over college football. It's not new and flashy - it's another tool in the arsenal.

Coaches know more about how to defend it (Shafer v Holgerson x3). For it to be your primary look, you need great players - just like any offense.

I like the ideas behind Lesters offense - a mix of spread and 9 guys in tight.

Coaches teach what they understand and what they are comfortable with. If a coach knows the flex-bone triple option chances are that's the offense they are going to run. Very few coaches come up with something completely new or change to something they are not familiar with. Good coaches do have some flexibility within their offensive system in order to take advantage of the strengths of their players, but typically they aren't going to completely change what they do.

 

[Millhouse]

Coaches teach what they understand and what they are comfortable with. If a coach knows the flex-bone triple option chances are that's the offense they are going to run. Very few coaches come up with something completely new or change to something they are not familiar with. Good coaches do have some flexibility within their offensive system in order to take advantage of the strengths of their players, but typically they aren't going to completely change what they do.

agree with that - which is why i am such a gasbag about how bad bill cubit is. i think the wrinkles that people put in to make it their own are more trouble than their worth but not from the perspective of coaches desperate to differentiate themselves.

i think it's why leach is throwing every down now - there are other air raid guys doing well, he keeps moving where they ain't.

 

[anomander]

There's no one else they can get at this point, except more unicorns or people with no other offers.

I really hope Edouard shows. But even if he does, how long before something happens and he's back in Fla for whatever reason.

Donovan Hale is another QB we have a pretty good shot at landing. He is a big athletic kid, but not too refined from a technical standpoint. Looks like it's between Cuse, Indiana, and VT.

No Im playing the the law of probability, If we sign 25 QBs one will be really good.

I'm with you. I'd bring in a whole bunch of QB's with the hope at least 1 pans out. We need a competent QB much more then we needed a long snapper, and 4 different kickers on scholarship.

 

[Crusty]

Coaches teach what they understand and what they are comfortable with. If a coach knows the flex-bone triple option chances are that's the offense they are going to run. Very few coaches come up with something completely new or change to something they are not familiar with. Good coaches do have some flexibility within their offensive system in order to take advantage of the strengths of their players, but typically they aren't going to completely change what they do.

That is my view as well.

 

[TheCusian]

If it's so good why doesn't everyone Lester's ? Same question

I don't know what his offense will be since it's not installed yet and Elmhurst VHS tapes are hard to come by.

Lots of good teams run 12 personnel - mostly in the NFL. But there are some. I have no idea of what Lester wants to run will look anything like what these guys are doing.

 

[TheCusian]

Coaches teach what they understand and what they are comfortable with. If a coach knows the flex-bone triple option chances are that's the offense they are going to run. Very few coaches come up with something completely new or change to something they are not familiar with. Good coaches do have some flexibility within their offensive system in order to take advantage of the strengths of their players, but typically they aren't going to completely change what they do.

Exactly. That's one of the reasons I think it's impossible to judge Lester on his OC stint so far. He's not running his system.

 

[Scooch]

I understand and agree with most of what you are saying but I think that's a bit of an over simplification. Part of the reason those Air Raid or Spread teams are so successful is they have a system and they stay the with it. That's how you get the "practicing over and over". Ga Tech runs the damn flex bone veer but they do it over and over. We are on our what, 4th or 5th system in 8 years? We have to keep recruiting different QB's for a system but the system leaves. Austin Wilson is a terrible fit for the read zone. I am worried Edouard and Long will be bad fits for Lester's offense. We keep chasing our freaking tails here. It's silly. You look at Wisconsin "meathead" football but they keep finding backs and linemen that fit their system. They crank out 1500 yard rushers year over year. We've gone from Crow-hop to pistol to bubble screen to pro style to hurry up shotgun to GMac's Frankenstein to this. And we wonder why our QB's aren't producing?

Sadly we had our lifetime coach who would bring a coherent system and stability... and he left after 4 years.

 

[Chip]

Sadly we had our lifetime coach who would bring a coherent system and stability... and he left after 4 years.

If Edouard shows up in January, I say we just bring back Deleone and be done with it.

At this point I might be only half joking.

 

[Crusty]

I don't know what his offense will be since it's not installed yet and Elmhurst VHS tapes are hard to come by.

Lots of good teams run 12 personnel - mostly in the NFL. But there are some. I have no idea of what Lester wants to run will look anything like what these guys are doing.

Elmhurst games are on youtube.

 

[TheCusian]

Elmhurst games are on youtube.

Nice! I'll have to watch one...